Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 19, 2017 16:32:21 GMT -5
Raw: Shield Triple Threat Braun v Samoa Joe Smackdown: AJ v Shinsuke KO/Sami v The New Day That's like, 10 second thought. You could put The Shield into other programs, throw The Miz in somewhere. Ok, so more Reigns vs Rollins or Ambrose vs Rollins, except they're all in a match together, a Joe/Braun match which we saw part of earlier in a Triple Threat, a really good AJ/Shinsuke match, and a comedy Tag Match that was just done on Smackdown are the Main Events of mania. I'm not ragging on your choices, just their booking, which have left so little desirable matchups that haven't been done to death. THAT is the bigger problem sure, but placing say, Shane and Brock into these situations wouldn't make the card any better or get more people buying them. Bringing in the part timers is a cop out which does nothing for anyone except give the part timers more money for less work. With good booking, you can do matches loads of times, such as during the Attitude era when from 1996-2002 there was usually some combination of Taker/Foley/HHH/Rock/Austin somewhere on the card. The booking's just lacking. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 19:30:50 GMT -5
They are even older than WCW roster!
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Post by abjordans on Dec 19, 2017 19:36:59 GMT -5
In the nXt era, 10 people over the age of 45 have competed in a marquee match. 20 people have competed being over the age of 40. During the Attitude era, the top guys (Austin, Rock, Triple H, Angle) were all under 35, with a few of them still being in their 20's. While guys like Kane are very impressive with regards to their career as a whole, people are just not going to relate to 50 year olds. Which is what the company is built around right now. I haven't read the rest of the posts, but has anyone said this post is a legit exaggeration and a half? The wrestling fan's vendetta against age has always boggled my mind since I first discovered the IWC in 1997. |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Dec 19, 2017 19:37:59 GMT -5
If Jordan was the best player in the league at 40, he'd be starting for the Bulls. The problem is they push them past those points. Brock, Goldberg, Taker, Kane, Show etc. They still take the big spots long after they merit them. I mean Lesnar is like ten years younger than those guys |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 19, 2017 19:45:06 GMT -5
Vince Carter is the oldest active NBA player at 40. The WWE should try and maintain athletic integrity by phasing out the old guys A basketball player and a wrestler hit their peak at completely different ages, and due to the nature of what pro wrestling is, if your body isn't totally wrecked you can still maintain a level of performance into your 40s just fine if you adapt your style and change things up. WWE's biggest problem with age isn't hard numbers, it's the massive problems in booking veterans as gods and letting people who are long past stale remain unchanged in major spots. Guys like Kane have offered little and changed up nothing over the years, and the cycle of refreshing the talent pool has taken way longer than it used to. Age isn't really even the issue if you are healthy. It's the fact that a lot of their featured talent has been on TV so long that fans are tired of them. Like, AJ Styles is three years older than Randy Orton, but Orton is the one who has stagnated in the last few years because he's been in main event positions for so long there's not much else he can do we haven't seen. |
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 19, 2017 21:41:14 GMT -5
It is one of the oldest rosters (if not the oldest) likely in all of wrestling history. I hardly think it fair to make comparisons between the current crop vs. the WWF locker room of thirty years ago, though. Today's talent pool has travelled more widely, has taken their skill development far more seriously, paid closer attention to physical conditioning and overall health; have learned how to work safer and how to prioritize safety over the long haul; is more connected to loved ones thanks to the Internet and the (somewhat) easier schedule; is generally better educated; and is more socially savvy (and careful).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 22:00:28 GMT -5
Vince Carter is the oldest active NBA player at 40. The WWE should try and maintain athletic integrity by phasing out the old guys AJ Styles is 40. I agree with the overall statement you're making but I think the example was somewhat poor. |
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Post by freeze Austin on Dec 19, 2017 22:01:31 GMT -5
That's because WWE waited until most of the best performers of this generation were in their early-to-mid 30's to sign them because they didn't have the preferred size or look.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 22:06:27 GMT -5
Vince Carter is the oldest active NBA player at 40. The WWE should try and maintain athletic integrity by phasing out the old guys Eh. Nah. This isn't hockey, where you're washed up and done the minute you turn 30. Jaromir Jagr would like a word with you. |
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Dec 19, 2017 22:08:28 GMT -5
Eh. Nah. This isn't hockey, where you're washed up and done the minute you turn 30. Jaromir Jagr would like a word with you. Yeah, hockey players do tend to stick around a good while. Raymond Bourque, for example. 22 years and didn't win the Cup until his final year. |
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 19, 2017 23:58:42 GMT -5
The big problem with claiming it's an age problem is that: First off, There's "Real age" and "TV age". Yes, Randy Orton is chronologically the same age as Finn Balor or Shinsuke Nakamura, or John Cena is chronologically the same age as Bobby Roode- but claiming Balor, Nakamura, or Roode is part of the same problem as Orton or Cena is patently absurd.
This is an important part of the Survivor Series issues with "But...there's only one person under 30 in the match!"- since even if a lot of people are older in their "Real age", you have to also look at the TV Age of the Survivor Series match and realize that half of the match was VERY young TV wise. Bobby Roode, Shinsuke Nakamura, and Samoa Joe are all members of the 2017 WWE rookie class, Finn Balor was in the 2016 WWE rookie class, and Braun Strowman was a 2015 rookie who started getting pushed seriously this year. 5/10 being people who debuted in the last three years and starting to get big pushes in the last two years is VERY GOOD for a promotion pushing new talent.
In addition, there's also a fact that...quite frankly, you can't have it both ways. The fact that indy wrestling is the hottest it's been in over a decade only serves to make it more of a reason to go against chronological order- because indy talents don't stay the same age while they're on the indy scene either. Time marches on, people get older, and capitalizing on the indy scene by and large means- unless you only bring in UK talents who started when they were 13-ish, by the time someone's an indy veteran and a top indy star who's skilled enough and over enough that they're truly ready for the jump to WWE (and we've seen when WWE signed rising indy stars like Apollo Crews, Oney Lorcan, and Kalisto before they truly BROKE OUT on the indies that "over enough" is a credible worry), you're probably going to be getting performers in their late-20s/early-30s anyway. And that's not an issue- traditionally it WAS in performers early to mid-30s when they start to PEAK and can wrestle into their forties and fifties, but somewhere along the line people decided to judge pro wrestling like they judge "real" sports, where people in their 20s are at their peak and people in their 30s are getting close to retirement age.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 20, 2017 2:14:13 GMT -5
The problem is they push them past those points. Brock, Goldberg, Taker, Kane, Show etc. They still take the big spots long after they merit them. I mean Lesnar is like ten years younger than those guys True, but he's still been around on WWE TV for 15 years, works part time and has been pretty damn lazy about putting others over since he returned. So I'm lumping him in he same category. As others have said, TV age and real age are different things. |
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Dec 20, 2017 2:59:30 GMT -5
Didn't WWE make a rule they'd only sign people over 21 now?
That would mean Tyler Bate is the only person his age on the entire roster.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Dec 20, 2017 14:11:03 GMT -5
There should be a feud over who has the cutest grandkids. Undertaker's new gimmick.. |
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Post by Bo Rida on Dec 20, 2017 15:43:43 GMT -5
I could relate to Regal’s old villain character or HBK style redemption arcs far more that the crap they book for wrestlers closer to my age. Even the trend for indy stars joining WWE later in their career helps, Owens early NXT/WWE stuff where he was bitter it took him so long to get there while his peers surpassed him was brilliant. There’s inbuilt stakes with age, if a young guy loses a big match chances are they’ll get another shot, an older guy might not.
So I never got the young people only relate to young people argument. Young people like the older characters in GoT, nobody stopped watching because Tywin and Olena were pushed too hard. Difference is they may have won a few battles but ultimately they’re not the ones leading the battle with the white walkers. Whereas when WWE get to their end game (WM) the old guys are always front and centre.
Like everything in WWE it’s the booking, they’ve got a pretty diverse range of wrestlers but don’t make the most of those differences.
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