Why does anyone even sign with WWE anymore?

[DJ Maniak]

And there's always the downside after you make it to WWE. Tyler Reks and Chuck Palumbo both made more money AFTER leaving WWE (Fitness Guru and Custom Motorcycles respectively).

[Mozenrath]

I'd also like to point out, even outside of possible prestige, on a shitty night, millions of people STILL see you wrestle on TV, and even bad gates for WWE are still thousands of people seeing you. Being a nobody in WWE is still a lot of recognition that is difficult to compete with.

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

Warts and all, it's still what nearly every professional wrestler aspires to when they start out. Weekly TV, big checks, five star hotels, WrestleMania. So on and so forth.

[psychokiller]

Dec 19, 2017 23:27:33 GMT -5 abjordans said:

Dec 19, 2017 23:10:03 GMT -5 psychokiller said:

About 80% of the current roster are complete afterthoughts. Who outside of Styles, The Shield, Braun, Owens, The Bar, New Day & veterans/ part timers are actually used good or decent? Balor is doing nothing these days & supposedly Vince doesn’t see much in him anymore. Nakamura almost feels like he hasn’t even been there for the past few months, Zayn got his heel turn but he loses almost every match still. Wyatt has been booked like a huge jobber & isn’t a threat. Matt finally turned broken but it’s going to be a much more watered down version of the character. Who on the roster is actually used good? There’s a reason why guys like Neville, Barrett, Swagger & Cody want/wanted to leave.

I mean, this is subjective I guess, because everyone you named is used prominently. The Hardy/Wyatt program is the hottest in the company, if it is watered down remains to be seen. Joe is used well, Roode can't complain about the way he has been booked he is over as hell. The only guy I think has a real complaint is Nakamura, and even still he may get a WM main event.

What, do you expect these people to just be artist? You seem to really mean "why do they sign with WWE instead of do what entertains me more". You have to understand why they really sign with WWE, right?

True, it remains to be seen with Matt but I’m almost sure it won’t be anywhere as good as what Matt did in Impact with the character. I’ll be shocked if they do a bunch of outrageous skits like he got to do with Impact. And no one cares about Wyatt anymore. He’s a jobber & got the title put on him after being a jobber for a few years straight. It wasn’t believable. The Wyatt character is done or at the least it’ll take a very long time to make him a believable threat again. Joe is used decent so far. Much better now than when he first made the main roster where he wasn’t even on the Mania card which was ridiculous. Roode it’s hard to say yet how he’ll be used but he’s already 40 & only has a limited amount of time left with the company. I just feel WWE doesn’t know what they’re doing with a lot of guys. Triple H himself in an interview flat out said that wins & losses don’t mean a lot. Which shows why so many guys have no momentum at all. The 50/50 booking doesn’t help anyone out at all. No one stands out but at the same time you can’t book someone like a superhero either like Reigns since that doesn’t work anymore. I think the one guy they actually got right in how they’ve booked someone in recent years is Styles. I feel they need to go back to the old way in how they booked shows. This setup of having dozens of writers doesn’t work especially since a lot of them don’t know anything about wrestling. It should be a small group of guys that know the wrestling business & let them book the shows. Wishful thinking would be letting Heyman be the head writer but unfortunately that’ll never happen. He would know how to book people well & create good storylines.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2017 22:35:59 GMT -5 Dub H said:

Dec 19, 2017 22:21:18 GMT -5 @nametaken said:

I'd imagine it's still easier to make big money with the WWE than it is with other companies. Which is to say, Luke Harper probably makes more than Dalton Castle. Bobby Roode likely makes more than Kota Ibushi. Just because you aren't a main eventer in WWE doesn't mean you aren't making good money to secure a stable life after wrestling. The Impact Zone probably won't be offering a comparable alternative to WWE in this regard for a long time, and there's only so much room in the upper strata of the NJPW/CMLL/ROH partnership.

Isn't Kota Ibushi a big f***ing deal in Japan? I assume he gets more/same than Bobby

He's a huge deal, yes. That was probably a bad example on my part, since Kota is notoriously free-spirited and hasn't been signing long-term contracts with anyone. I guess the comparison I wanted to draw is Bobby Roode having a very handsome six-figure downside, with a "comfortable" position on the card, whereas Ibushi is putting in passionate performances all over the place, but in a much less "secure" position, with less guarantees.

[Deleted]

I don't think people understand how important money and having more eyes on you is.

[rnrk supports BLM]

[Deleted]

On top of money and exposure you have doctors, wellness testing, not just drugs, it picked up Roddy Piper's cancer so you're getting screemed.

If you get hurt you still get your downside and any merch residuals. You have a free state of the art gym and the performance centre to get yourself back in shape and work with loads of different guys.

If you show an interest you can learn aspects of production, booking, camera direction so you have other skillsets.

And if you leave you get 'former wwe superstar' added to your billing.

[Blindkarevik]

Someone like Ricochet really has very little to lose in WWE, especially in this climate where indy wrestling is easier than ever to have access to. If Ricochet goes to WWE, gets the merch, the name recognition, and has a rise similar to AJ Styles where he becomes a major player and helps carry on the business... he wins. If he goes in, gets the name recognition, the merch, and has a frustrating experience and waits out the end of his contract... he can still command a higher fee back on the indies. If he gets the merch, and the name recognition, and rides out the rest of his career with a great payday and sitting in the middle of the card.... he can pad his bank account while going on cruise control. He's a guy who has all the talent in the world and will be fine with or without WWE, so he might as well sign and see where it takes him.

If we're talking my personal feelings? I want Ricochet to stay away because I see him having his moveset gutted, not being able to have the freedom he has now and will end up with people who have heard his name but never watched him saying, "Really? That's it?" But, I could be wrong.... put him and Lio Rush together in a few matches and you'll see something that hasn't been seen on WWE TV and on the right night, with the right crowd, that could help the cruiserweight division explode. So yeah, I could be wrong in my personal feelings... but, I tend to be a guy who sticks with the devil he knows and I know Ricochet can do just fine on his own and if he wants to sign, it's because he feels it's the best move for his career and I accept it. Just, as a fan... I am selfish. All fans are selfish on some level.

[Evilution E5150]

being paid while injured would be a pretty big one

[Bungle]

Because is not a competitive sport.

[HMARK Center]

Dec 19, 2017 23:46:56 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

Warts and all, it's still what nearly every professional wrestler aspires to when they start out. Weekly TV, big checks, five star hotels, WrestleMania. So on and so forth.

To be fair, those things are not guarantees when somebody signs with WWE, e.g. most of the wrestlers stay in places a lot more humble while on the road. That said, a wrestler could say their goal is to rise up as high as somebody like Cena, who might have things like travel expenses included in his contract, and take their shot at getting to that point.

While there are a lot more chances these days to make a living outside of WWE, and sometimes a lucrative one, than there were just a few years ago, WWE does remain the biggest game in town, and the company that many of today's wrestlers grew up watching, to boot. Some guys want to be able to say "I worked a big stadium card", some like Karl Anderson will tell you that the brutal schedule is counterbalanced by at least some assurance that you'll likely get to spend at least some time with your family each week, and many of them realize that they at least have the potential to earn really big money if they go there and things break right for them.

However, in the case of a guy like Ricochet, an exceptionally popular and in-demand indy talent, an argument could be made that maybe WWE isn't the optimal path for him. Note: I'm not saying it isn't, only he can say what's the best path forward for himself and his family, but in a vacuum Ricochet is one of those guys who probably could've kept working internationally and done very well. The guy got a low six-figure contract offer to stay with Lucha Underground, a promotion he'd only have to work for a week or two out of the year, so right off the bat he'd be working off a strong financial base, allowing him to be picky about which other dates he'd work throughout the year. He was also very over in Japan, and if he had done like Will Ospreay and signed a NJPW contract I'm certain he'd not only have won the IWGP Jr. title at some point, I also think he might've had the potential to move up to the heavyweight division at some point ala Kota Ibushi. Dude had a lot of options, and he was going to do very well, whatever he decided.

Meanwhile, WWE comes with some risks for a guy like Ricochet; his size may relegate him to a show like 205 Live, where travel is a bear and the pay is lower than for the main roster standbys; that said, I'm sure the stuff I said in the last paragraph meant he went into contract talks with WWE with a good deal of leverage, so maybe he'll avoid that. Even so, high pay is not a total guarantee; very, very few wrestlers in WWE make over a million a year, and few manage to crack, say, high six figures, too. Then, to reiterate, travel can be horrific for most of the WWE roster: paying out of pocket for travel expenses, working at least five days a week all over, no real breaks you can write into your calendar, there isn't a grind like it in the rest of the wrestling world. A guy at Ricochet's level likely could've dictated a lot of terms while traveling for indies and international shows, e.g. asking for flights or hotel costs to be covered, deciding now and then to take a chunk of time off to spend a couple weeks at home, stuff like that, and it's possible he won't be able to do that now. Some guys might also prefer the creative freedom that comes with being successful outside of WWE, and a guy with Ricochet's standing in the industry could also do some work in outside interests without sacrificing a ton of his wrestling income.

Still, WWE is a gamble that has the potentially to pay off in a big way: nobody's pockets are deeper, and nobody's shows get more eyes on them, so if you have faith in your abilities you may well be able to rise to the level where guys are making the big money, getting travel covered, stuff like that. Again, I'm also sure Ricochet was in a stronger negotiating position with them than numerous other guys have been, and that likely helped.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2017 2:25:26 GMT -5 Bungle said:

Because is not a competitive sport.

This. Wrestling is a business, not some free form art to please angry internet fans.

[cuppacoffee - slight return]

Dec 19, 2017 22:35:18 GMT -5 Urethra Franklin said:

It’s the same reason why first-choice internationals play for teams like Stoke.

Xherdan Shaqiri could go home and play for Basel and compete for a Swiss title and have a shot at the Champions League every year, but the money and exposure from the Premier League trumps that.

For better or worse, the WWE remains the biggest game in town and will still be where people strive towards going.

Does this analogy make Vince McMahon Mark Hughes? 🤔

[Duke Cameron]

I’m not a wrestler so I’d never be in the position to make this decision, but I rather continue wrestling in the indies and have longer, competitive matches for lesser money than be a job guy in WWE just because it offered more money. Guess that goes for any job really. My pride has always been more important to me than money.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Dec 20, 2017 7:35:24 GMT -5 cuppacoffee - slight return said:

Dec 19, 2017 22:35:18 GMT -5 Urethra Franklin said:

It’s the same reason why first-choice internationals play for teams like Stoke.

Xherdan Shaqiri could go home and play for Basel and compete for a Swiss title and have a shot at the Champions League every year, but the money and exposure from the Premier League trumps that.

For better or worse, the WWE remains the biggest game in town and will still be where people strive towards going.

Does this analogy make Vince McMahon Mark Hughes? 🤔

Nah, Vince would be Sir David Richards, chairman of the Premier League. Playing for Stoke would amount to working in the midcard, with Mark Hughes being a road agent.

I put far too much thought into that.

[Allie Kitsune]

Dec 20, 2017 7:10:47 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Dec 19, 2017 23:46:56 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

Warts and all, it's still what nearly every professional wrestler aspires to when they start out. Weekly TV, big checks, five star hotels, WrestleMania. So on and so forth.

To be fair, those things are not guarantees when somebody signs with WWE, e.g. most of the wrestlers stay in places a lot more humble while on the road. That said, a wrestler could say their goal is to rise up as high as somebody like Cena, who might have things like travel expenses included in his contract, and take their shot at getting to that point.

While there are a lot more chances these days to make a living outside of WWE, and sometimes a lucrative one, than there were just a few years ago, WWE does remain the biggest game in town, and the company that many of today's wrestlers grew up watching, to boot. Some guys want to be able to say "I worked a big stadium card", some like Karl Anderson will tell you that the brutal schedule is counterbalanced by at least some assurance that you'll likely get to spend at least some time with your family each week, and many of them realize that they at least have the potential to earn really big money if they go there and things break right for them.

However, in the case of a guy like Ricochet, an exceptionally popular and in-demand indy talent, an argument could be made that maybe WWE isn't the optimal path for him. Note: I'm not saying it isn't, only he can say what's the best path forward for himself and his family, but in a vacuum Ricochet is one of those guys who probably could've kept working internationally and done very well. The guy got a low six-figure contract offer to stay with Lucha Underground, a promotion he'd only have to work for a week or two out of the year, so right off the bat he'd be working off a strong financial base, allowing him to be picky about which other dates he'd work throughout the year. He was also very over in Japan, and if he had done like Will Ospreay and signed a NJPW contract I'm certain he'd not only have won the IWGP Jr. title at some point, I also think he might've had the potential to move up to the heavyweight division at some point ala Kota Ibushi. Dude had a lot of options, and he was going to do very well, whatever he decided.

Meanwhile, WWE comes with some risks for a guy like Ricochet; his size may relegate him to a show like 205 Live, where travel is a bear and the pay is lower than for the main roster standbys; that said, I'm sure the stuff I said in the last paragraph meant he went into contract talks with WWE with a good deal of leverage, so maybe he'll avoid that. Even so, high pay is not a total guarantee; very, very few wrestlers in WWE make over a million a year, and few manage to crack, say, high six figures, too. Then, to reiterate, travel can be horrific for most of the WWE roster: paying out of pocket for travel expenses, working at least five days a week all over, no real breaks you can write into your calendar, there isn't a grind like it in the rest of the wrestling world. A guy at Ricochet's level likely could've dictated a lot of terms while traveling for indies and international shows, e.g. asking for flights or hotel costs to be covered, deciding now and then to take a chunk of time off to spend a couple weeks at home, stuff like that, and it's possible he won't be able to do that now. Some guys might also prefer the creative freedom that comes with being successful outside of WWE, and a guy with Ricochet's standing in the industry could also do some work in outside interests without sacrificing a ton of his wrestling income.

Still, WWE is a gamble that has the potentially to pay off in a big way: nobody's pockets are deeper, and nobody's shows get more eyes on them, so if you have faith in your abilities you may well be able to rise to the level where guys are making the big money, getting travel covered, stuff like that. Again, I'm also sure Ricochet was in a stronger negotiating position with them than numerous other guys have been, and that likely helped.

Another thing with Ricochet is that it could be as simple as that he wants to be where his buddies Crews and Tozawa are.

[cuppacoffee - slight return]

Dec 20, 2017 7:52:06 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Dec 20, 2017 7:35:24 GMT -5 cuppacoffee - slight return said:

Does this analogy make Vince McMahon Mark Hughes? 🤔

Nah, Vince would be Sir David Richards, chairman of the Premier League. Playing for Stoke would amount to working in the midcard, with Mark Hughes being a road agent.

I put far too much thought into that.

That works. So Hughes = Road Dogg? Yeah, I’d go along with that.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2017 7:47:14 GMT -5 Duke Cameron said:

I’m not a wrestler so I’d never be in the position to make this decision, but I rather continue wrestling in the indies and have longer, competitive matches for lesser money than be a job guy in WWE just because it offered more money. Guess that goes for any job really. My pride has always been more important to me than money.

Pride doesn't keep a roof over you family's head and food on the table. Doing it for the art is well and good until it comes time to retire and all of a sudden you have very limited options within wrestling and you're a 40 year old that lacks the real world skills/experience to get a good job outside of wrestling.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2017 8:20:17 GMT -5 @noggy said:

Dec 20, 2017 7:47:14 GMT -5 Duke Cameron said:

I’m not a wrestler so I’d never be in the position to make this decision, but I rather continue wrestling in the indies and have longer, competitive matches for lesser money than be a job guy in WWE just because it offered more money. Guess that goes for any job really. My pride has always been more important to me than money.

Pride doesn't keep a roof over you family's head and food on the table. Doing it for the art is well and good until it comes time to retire and all of a sudden you have very limited options within wrestling and you're a 40 year old that lacks the real world skills/experience to get a good job outside of wrestling.

Agreed.

You could have gotten away doing this back in the territory days, where people made way more money than they do now. Even then, if you wrestling for pride, or being a mark for yourself, you'll get jobbed out badly. Scott Hall said that Vince would love doing this to people who are marks for themselves because they are bad for business.