JR on how he'd bring Punk back into WWE.

[Allie Kitsune]

Jan 4, 2018 19:23:24 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Jan 4, 2018 15:23:02 GMT -5 repomark said:

I don’t really know the ins and outs of the conversations they had, but I very much doubt that he got Vince’s blessing just judging by how Punk was regarded immediately after his departure by WWE (even before the whole doctor stuff). He may have agreed to let him walk - but he was by no means happy about it. Punk was advertised to appear that night then didn’t - which is in my view unprofessional.

Furthermore, given Punk had been heavily promoted as an attraction at Wrestlemania (his Axxess appearance was already sold out) to me the professional thing to do would be to see out the contract or at the very least leave after Mania season. I don’t know the details of his contract of course - which I don’t think any of us do in detail - but he failed to see it out and terminated it prematurely and abruptly. That is why in my view it remains unprofessional.

I fully agree that the independent contractor loophole exploited by WWE is utter nonsense and heinous, but I didn’t think that had anything to do with Punk’s reason for departing (at least initially).

I do hope Punk comes back, I just don’t think he covered himself in glory in this whole thing.

He'd already fulfilled his appearances portion of his contract. WWE contracts are for however many years and however many appearances. So essentially, if they use up all your contracted appearances by overbooking you, you may legally be able to sit at home for the remainder of your contract. He didn't owe them anything at that point. And by going to the building and having a meeting with Vince, he handled his business professionally.

I know he comes off like a prick, but in regards to his leaving, he was completely justified. The guy was sick and wanted time away to get it sorted out.

As much as I dislike the man, the one thing I did respect about him is, no matter how bad his relationship with HHH was, he always seemed to keep it on the level with Vince.

[trollrogue]

Time and money.

When things are right for the WWE to let go of their cock envy of Punk's TO THIS DAY huge draw, and how he doesn't need them as much as they need him, is some undetermined "X" time in the future.

When things are right to return for Punk, i.e. when he runs out of cash-- which I don't think will happen since AJ Lee does some stuffs (author, fan greets, conventions, etc.), will be some undetermined "Y" time in the future.

When X = Y, Punk will be back. X + the money WWE gets for Punk overall, and Y + Punk's payday.

[Vincent Whiney]

Please no.

[thegame415]

I don’t want Punk to come back. I feel like the ship has sailed and things have changed.

I wouldn’t really want Hogan back in 1997, or Bret in 2000. Some things just change.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 4, 2018 19:23:24 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Jan 4, 2018 15:23:02 GMT -5 repomark said:

I don’t really know the ins and outs of the conversations they had, but I very much doubt that he got Vince’s blessing just judging by how Punk was regarded immediately after his departure by WWE (even before the whole doctor stuff). He may have agreed to let him walk - but he was by no means happy about it. Punk was advertised to appear that night then didn’t - which is in my view unprofessional.

Furthermore, given Punk had been heavily promoted as an attraction at Wrestlemania (his Axxess appearance was already sold out) to me the professional thing to do would be to see out the contract or at the very least leave after Mania season. I don’t know the details of his contract of course - which I don’t think any of us do in detail - but he failed to see it out and terminated it prematurely and abruptly. That is why in my view it remains unprofessional.

I fully agree that the independent contractor loophole exploited by WWE is utter nonsense and heinous, but I didn’t think that had anything to do with Punk’s reason for departing (at least initially).

I do hope Punk comes back, I just don’t think he covered himself in glory in this whole thing.

He'd already fulfilled his appearances portion of his contract. WWE contracts are for however many years and however many appearances. So essentially, if they use up all your contracted appearances by overbooking you, you may legally be able to sit at home for the remainder of your contract. He didn't owe them anything at that point. And by going to the building and having a meeting with Vince, he handled his business professionally.

I know he comes off like a prick, but in regards to his leaving, he was completely justified. The guy was sick and wanted time away to get it sorted out.

No matter how many times you explain to people he fulfilled his contract, they concentrate on the date it expired.

[Deleted]

I'd rather he show up in NJPW.

[cjh]

Jan 4, 2018 19:23:24 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Jan 4, 2018 15:23:02 GMT -5 repomark said:

I don’t really know the ins and outs of the conversations they had, but I very much doubt that he got Vince’s blessing just judging by how Punk was regarded immediately after his departure by WWE (even before the whole doctor stuff). He may have agreed to let him walk - but he was by no means happy about it. Punk was advertised to appear that night then didn’t - which is in my view unprofessional.

Furthermore, given Punk had been heavily promoted as an attraction at Wrestlemania (his Axxess appearance was already sold out) to me the professional thing to do would be to see out the contract or at the very least leave after Mania season. I don’t know the details of his contract of course - which I don’t think any of us do in detail - but he failed to see it out and terminated it prematurely and abruptly. That is why in my view it remains unprofessional.

I fully agree that the independent contractor loophole exploited by WWE is utter nonsense and heinous, but I didn’t think that had anything to do with Punk’s reason for departing (at least initially).

I do hope Punk comes back, I just don’t think he covered himself in glory in this whole thing.

He'd already fulfilled his appearances portion of his contract. WWE contracts are for however many years and however many appearances. So essentially, if they use up all your contracted appearances by overbooking you, you may legally be able to sit at home for the remainder of your contract. He didn't owe them anything at that point. And by going to the building and having a meeting with Vince, he handled his business professionally.

I know he comes off like a prick, but in regards to his leaving, he was completely justified. The guy was sick and wanted time away to get it sorted out.

If WWE is limited on how often they can book someone, I'm surprised that it has never become an issue like in WCW where they would be unable to book guys on house shows because they had reached their limit on the days they could be used.

[Bub (BLM)]

Jan 4, 2018 22:45:44 GMT -5 cjh said:

Jan 4, 2018 19:23:24 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

He'd already fulfilled his appearances portion of his contract. WWE contracts are for however many years and however many appearances. So essentially, if they use up all your contracted appearances by overbooking you, you may legally be able to sit at home for the remainder of your contract. He didn't owe them anything at that point. And by going to the building and having a meeting with Vince, he handled his business professionally.

I know he comes off like a prick, but in regards to his leaving, he was completely justified. The guy was sick and wanted time away to get it sorted out.

If WWE is limited on how often they can book someone, I'm surprised that it has never become an issue like in WCW where they would be unable to book guys on house shows because they had reached their limit on the days they could be used.

Yeah, but think about which guys pulled that card. Hogan. Nash. Hall. Luger. Those guys were determined to do the least amount of work possible in WCW.

[Natural Born Farmer]

Jan 4, 2018 22:13:44 GMT -5 @therealoblivion said:

I'd rather he show up in NJPW.

He actually fights in MMA again that’s the only
Place he CAN show up for a decent price.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Jan 4, 2018 23:05:42 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Jan 4, 2018 22:45:44 GMT -5 cjh said:

If WWE is limited on how often they can book someone, I'm surprised that it has never become an issue like in WCW where they would be unable to book guys on house shows because they had reached their limit on the days they could be used.

Yeah, but think about which guys pulled that card. Hogan. Nash. Hall. Luger. Those guys were determined to do the least amount of work possible in WCW.

Exactly. You contract WCW Hogan, Hall or Nash to work 150 appearances, they're probably not working beyond that number for less than $100 grand a pop, if they work at all.

TNA has a similar issue with RVD, when they put the world title on him just as his contracted appearances limit was coming up then realised they couldn't afford to pay him to work beyond those dates.

Remember, WWE tried to withhold money from Punk using the argument that he hadn't fulfilled his contractual obligations, which resulted in the feared Jerry McDivitt getting squashed in court worse than James Ellsworth against Braun Strowman.

[YAKMAN is ICHIBAN]

Jan 4, 2018 9:46:50 GMT -5 repomark said:

I think Punk coming back in a complete surprise - e.g Royal Rumble or interfering in a match on Raw or PPV especially in Chicago - would be the best way to bring him back. You can still build to the massive WM match with whoever, but the chance to create an epic no one saw it coming moment is right there.

As for WWE apologising, I am still not clear on why they should. CM Punk was given a 434 day WWE title reign, something no one in the modern era can say, and would have been in a heavily promoted WM match against Triple H before he walked out. To quote the Sopranos he was like someone with a Virginia ham under one arm crying the blues because he didn’t have bread.

As I understand it the Triple H match was the reason for the unprofessional walk out and the whole doctor business escalated afrerwards? If my chronology is wrong then apologies. Regardless of whether you agree with Punk, for the way he went about things he should apologise.

I do not know enough about the Punk/WWE doctor court case to comment on that one in any detail, but I am not under the impression WWE deliberately had him work injured more that it was misdiagnosis. If Punk wins the case then the money he receives should act as an apology, if he loses then he should move on.

I would love to see Punk back, I just wonder if the baggage he comes with would put Vince off too much, and of course I am not convinced Punk even wants to come back.

That lawsuit is Dr. Amann suing CM Punk and Colt Cabana for defamation. (That Punk's statements about what is essentially medical malpractice were false.)

Punk won't get any money if he wins, not even attorneys fees typically. (The "American rule" is that everyone bears their own attorney costs, though attorney costs might be awarded where a court finds that a case is frivolous and imposes sanctions, or where a contract provides for it) That is, unless he has some sort of counterclaim against the doctor but I don't think he has filed one.

The case is still in the discovery phase, with each side gathering information in the form of documents and depositions.

[cjh]

Jan 4, 2018 23:05:42 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Jan 4, 2018 22:45:44 GMT -5 cjh said:

If WWE is limited on how often they can book someone, I'm surprised that it has never become an issue like in WCW where they would be unable to book guys on house shows because they had reached their limit on the days they could be used.

Yeah, but think about which guys pulled that card. Hogan. Nash. Hall. Luger. Those guys were determined to do the least amount of work possible in WCW.

Sting and Luger were actually the guys I had in mind as that definitely happened with them.  I believe it even was an issue with Luger during his 1991 title run.

[Rican]

He won't ever do it unless it's like Batista's last run. A shit ton of money and a Mania main event.

My dream scenario was him winning the Rumble as a surprise entrant this year and facing Samoa Joe for the Universal title in the main event of Wrestlemania, with Triple H in Joe's corner. Then Hunter eats a GTS after the match.

[cjh]

Jan 5, 2018 2:19:18 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Jan 4, 2018 23:05:42 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Yeah, but think about which guys pulled that card. Hogan. Nash. Hall. Luger. Those guys were determined to do the least amount of work possible in WCW.

Exactly. You contract WCW Hogan, Hall or Nash to work 150 appearances, they're probably not working beyond that number for less than $100 grand a pop, if they work at all.

TNA has a similar issue with RVD, when they put the world title on him just as his contracted appearances limit was coming up then realised they couldn't afford to pay him to work beyond those dates.

Remember, WWE tried to withhold money from Punk using the argument that he hadn't fulfilled his contractual obligations, which resulted in the feared Jerry McDivitt getting squashed in court worse than James Ellsworth against Braun Strowman.

Punk's issue with them was over the video game that was released a few months after he left.  I think he was on the cover and heavily used in the ads, but he didn't get paid for it until he got his lawyer involved.  He later sent out a tweet basically saying "thanks for the check, 2K."

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Jan 5, 2018 10:29:14 GMT -5 cjh said:

Jan 5, 2018 2:19:18 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Exactly. You contract WCW Hogan, Hall or Nash to work 150 appearances, they're probably not working beyond that number for less than $100 grand a pop, if they work at all.

TNA has a similar issue with RVD, when they put the world title on him just as his contracted appearances limit was coming up then realised they couldn't afford to pay him to work beyond those dates.

Remember, WWE tried to withhold money from Punk using the argument that he hadn't fulfilled his contractual obligations, which resulted in the feared Jerry McDivitt getting squashed in court worse than James Ellsworth against Braun Strowman.

Punk's issue with them was over the video game that was released a few months after he left.  I think he was on the cover and heavily used in the ads, but he didn't get paid for it until he got his lawyer involved.  He later sent out a tweet basically saying "thanks for the check, 2K."

it was 2k15.

He wasn't on the cover but the first showcase was Punk vs. Cena.

[Skeletor]

Jan 4, 2018 10:40:26 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

I actually do believe Punk and WWE will come to some sort of terms eventually-but it will be in The for mlf both making money by using his image for merchandising and video games. I don’t see a tv return as ever being in the cards.

when do u think?

Can wwe2k sign Punk regardless for a wwe game if they wanted?

[Sephiroth]

Jan 5, 2018 21:07:02 GMT -5 Skeletor said:

Jan 4, 2018 10:40:26 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

I actually do believe Punk and WWE will come to some sort of terms eventually-but it will be in The for mlf both making money by using his image for merchandising and video games. I don’t see a tv return as ever being in the cards.

when do u think?

Can wwe2k sign Punk regardless for a wwe game if they wanted?

Oh it’s not going to be for years yet. At least not until the suit is resolved, and then some.

[cjh]

Jan 5, 2018 21:07:02 GMT -5 Skeletor said:

Jan 4, 2018 10:40:26 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

I actually do believe Punk and WWE will come to some sort of terms eventually-but it will be in The for mlf both making money by using his image for merchandising and video games. I don’t see a tv return as ever being in the cards.

when do u think?

Can wwe2k sign Punk regardless for a wwe game if they wanted?

Yes, 2K could sign Punk themselves but only if WWE gives them the OK to do so.  Jakks Pacific did that around 2003 so they could make figures of Ultimate Warrior and Bruno Sammartino, and WWE said yes.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Jan 4, 2018 7:14:59 GMT -5 mrbananagrabber said:

"I would try to figure out a way if there's one more run in CM Punk. And 'one more run' to me means this: a WrestleMania, not 10, not two, not three, a WrestleMania.

"Start with let's build to the right build and the crescendo is WrestleMania. And the only other way I'd do him is have him return at WrestleMania and not be on television.

"Sign, train, vignettes, vignettes, little angle, boom. His first match is WrestleMania. Yeah, that way there's no pressure on anybody."


I'm all for bringing Punk back in, but this would be the worst way of doing it. Punk coming back to Raw, in Detroit? That could be magical. And building a feud or "little angle" when the guy doesn't even show up? Ask Bray Wyatt how well that worked with the Undertaker.

I'm not saying he needs to work house shows or anything, but if you're bringing Punk back it needs to be better than that.

Personally, I really like the approach JR's offering. Punk doesn't need a complex, overly detailed angle for his return. All he needs to do is show up, maybe cut a couple of Raw promos and then wrestle his big match later. He's a draw, so the fans will show up to see him again.

It's super simple, and that's what would make it great.

[avenger]

Jan 4, 2018 10:11:08 GMT -5 @irontyger said:

When you are considered an independent contractor but aren't allowed to work elsewhere for a period of time after your release, you cannot walk out in an unprofessional manner.

In the rest of the working world, the 90 day compete clause is called your notice. And yes, I've had jobs with a 90 day notice.

Jan 4, 2018 21:57:34 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Jan 4, 2018 19:23:24 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

He'd already fulfilled his appearances portion of his contract. WWE contracts are for however many years and however many appearances. So essentially, if they use up all your contracted appearances by overbooking you, you may legally be able to sit at home for the remainder of your contract. He didn't owe them anything at that point. And by going to the building and having a meeting with Vince, he handled his business professionally.

I know he comes off like a prick, but in regards to his leaving, he was completely justified. The guy was sick and wanted time away to get it sorted out.

No matter how many times you explain to people he fulfilled his contract, they concentrate on the date it expired.

Minimum dates doesn't mean that he only has to work that number of dates if he wants (that ship sailed after Hogan, Hall and Nash pulled that trick in WCW), and there's not a maximum number of dates in the deal. What the minimum dates deal is, is that if they don't use you for that many dates, they have to pay you the difference.