The Curse of Youth

[celtics543]

I've been reading threads and thinking a lot about the main event scene lately and I've come to a conclusion. Guys are coming into the WWE at too young an age and sticking around for far too long. I've always heard wrestlers say that you really don't hit your prime from a psychological standpoint until you've been in the business for a while. The problem with WWE right now is that they're getting guys who are young and look great and then pushing them. Those guys are popular for a little bit but when they fade out there's nothing they can do with them anymore.

Take Roman Reigns. He's 32 years old and he's already a multiple time WWE champ that fans are sick and tired of seeing in the main event. By contrast, Bret Hart was 34 when he won his first WWE title and was on top for a total of 5 years and had a big heel run in that mix too. By the time it was 1997 and Bret was almost 40 he was ready to start riding off into the sunset. The timeline made sense.

Hogan was 30 when he won his first WWE title but it was a different time when guys weren't overexposed. And even then he was stale by 1991. He had a big heel run and then his career was basically over as a top level main event guy.

Today we have the problem that not only is the WWE the only game in town but they're pushing a guy like Randy Orton to the WWE title at 24 years old. He still has at least 15 years left with no other trophy to achieve in the eyes of the fans. He can turn heel or face but there's nothing left to push him towards. If they had waited and sent him to learn how to work in Japan or somewhere else, and brought him over at 30 or 31 then he has his big run and can coast into retirement after 5 years or so. It's basically what AJ Styles is doing right now.

As fans we're left with these still fairly young guys that have been pushed on tv for a decade that we're sick of but they have nothing left to accomplish. Compare Sheamus to Finn Balor. Balor is only 3 years younger than Sheamus but he feels like a 20 year old because we haven't seen him forever.

Basically my thoughts are that the WWE need to start waiting and letting guys mature somewhere else before bringing them in and pushing them hard. It's what they did in the 80's and 90's. Guys like Austin, Foley, Hogan, Piper, and Flair all came in and carried the company for periods of time. It didn't have to be a 5 year plan but they came in, got hot, carried the company for a while, and then transitioned out. That's the ideal format for pro wrestling and they've gotten away from it. Now we get guys at 25 pushed to the moon and they want to build everything around them for 10 years even though that's never proven to work ever in wrestling after Bruno.

[abjordans]

I think a big problem with WWE the last 15 years or so is guys are getting TV aged quickly and acheichinh their story arch too quickly.

[Final Countdown Jones]

The territory system was a product of its time and died out for some pretty obvious reasons, and once it was gone WWE decided that they wanted homegrown talent raised from very early on and trained in their system to work their matches, and to live out their time as a WWE star rather than a wrestling star. You still see that journeyman effect with indie workers, but the system favours molding stars from nothing into specifically what they want. Even New Japan, who are in a much more competitive market where most of their major venues are also used by other promotions, have done this for generations of wrestlers, and presently run into the same issue with Okada.

The bigger problem is more that WWE overpushed Randy so quickly and so hard that he's one of the most decorated wrestlers in the company's history and has really hit a standstill because of that. They're not careful with how they handle these things and overexpose the f*** out of people, while also generally retaining people over the long term unless they're job guys or wash out for other reasons because there's nowhere else that's going to pay what WWE does. You're comparing what amount to two completely different industries in how the '80s and '90s worked versus how it works today.

[Deleted]

Even Alexa has a hall of fame resume already and she hasn't been on the main roster for 2 years. As much as I love her, I think that's wild.

[Push R Truth]

I personally believe that due to advances in medical science for injuries AND the better knowledge of how to take care of yourself (and better performance enhancing drugs/supplements/science in general) that the lifespan of a pro wrestler is greatly enhanced. It's not uncommon to go into your 40's and still be physically fine to wrestle.

When I was a kid, I saw a lot of 40 year old wrestlers that looked like broken down grandpa's in the indies. Now I can see 50+ year guys that look better than those 40+ guys.

I'm curious to see how this all plays out over time. You can see the immediate effects of this today.

I personally think 20+ year careers are going to stop being a Rare thing. I'm not going to pretend like they will ever be commonplace. A 20 year career in any field isn't that common. It's just it's going to be a lot less rare.


Couple longer overall careers with overexposure... it will be interesting times. I mean, I'm sick of Alexia Bliss already and she could easily have 15+ more years of dominating the division.

It feels like you are totally exposed before you even get to your prime.

[AlexaBliss4Life]

Well with Vince at the helm, and being out of touch, are you really surprised?

[Reflecto]

A bigger problem with the overexposure is likely the fact that there's too many other factors to this.

Right now, the WWE quality of wrestlers is at an all-time high. Where in previous times there were people who were clearly out of place on the roster and beyond hope, right now even the very worst person on the roster would be at least "pretty good".

Meanwhile, for outside the ring nature- social media has made it so that everyone on the roster seem like nice people, and the fans would like the best for them because of this.

This leads to another problem because as a result: Fans just like EVERYONE on the roster. They're rooting for everyone on the roster to do well and succeed, they want to see everyone become a star...

...and in the process, it's taken away the problem that they want EVERYONE to be champion at least once and make it to the top of their profession. The only problem is "you can get money seeing someone become a champion, but true star power and true draws can make you care about them AS THE CHAMPION"...but right now, when someone wins a title, it just goes to "He succeeded! Okay, who's next on the list?"

[Pushed to the Moon]

I agree with you. It is pretty crazy how guys like Reigns are 3 time champs at an age where Bret, Shawn, Austin etc hadn't even won it once.

After they've been relatively hotshotted to the WWE title they have to work BACKWARDS towards the midcard titles like Reigns has done with the US and IC titles to build him back up again as if the world titles never happened. It's very strange.

[sportatorium]

The story arc for feuds should have beginnings, middles and ends. Look at Elias, Balor Club, Bray Wyatt- any of them. Why are they there? What are they doing? How does it advance week to week?

I don’t think it is the age of the wrestlers, just no real plan to get anyone over save a select few.

[thecrusherwi]

It would help if they actually valued the Tag Team division all the time instead of in random spurts and had a solid midcard. Bret Hart was in WWE for 13 years and didn't get stale because he had long, interesting careers at every level. Same for Shawn Micheals. Heck the Undertaker was interesting for basically his entire 20+ year full time run. AND he was main event the whole time. They just can't be bothered to tell interesting stories anymore

[bootytea]

It has little to do with age and more to do with a lack of logical booking.

Look at Paige as a perfect example of someone that debuted on RAW by winning the Women's title which really made her character less interesting once she lost the strap.

WWE needs to make it okay that someone is in the midcard, instead of making it a place for people who really have nothing to do. Viewers are likely to be more invested in someone that dukes it out in the lower card then gradually move towards the main event, especially when the company has proven they will commit to someone that fits the majority of the audiences criteria.

Instead, we have a totally random midcard that often gets dominated by past or failed main eventers. I'm not sure why WWE tests out some people by making them champs instead of building to it. Once in a while is okay, but it seems to be their model. That's why a guy like Chris Masters isn't around.

This mentality of wins and losses being meaningless makes the whole product meaningless, regardless of age. There has to be some order. Sure, sprinkle in some random reigns here and there, but it shouldn't be the basis of the entire show.

Being aware of the handful of individuals that will be chosen no matter how shitty or unfitting they are to the role must be demoralizing for the crew..

[Heeltown, USA]

It's all a product of there being too much TV time to fill each week.
Not only are guys winning titles without proper builds, we the viewers are subjugated to seeing the same matches all the time. There is no incentive to get hyped for a new matchup, because we all know we will see it again over and over again in different iterations for the next few months.

Overexposure and shitty booking have ruined WWE to where I just don't think they'll ever be good again. They have stockholders to answer to, so the machine Vince created, which is far too big, can't feasibly scale it back.

[Old Jack Burton]

This is why I have said before that Seth Rollins needs to take a 2 to 3 year break right now. He's 31, is a former world champion, and is now running in circles in the mid-card while still trying to have barn-burner matches. He could go away for 3 years and come back at the age 34 to a triumphant return and have lots of fresh match-ups. And I think he would be able to build his physique up to an even more impressive level.

[cjb01: Limited Edition Item!]

On the opposite end, how about watching guys in WWE for years thinking this is the year they might actually get a world title push or a push period and still never do?

That might as well be a double curse.

[AlexaBliss4Life]

Jan 15, 2018 22:56:00 GMT -5 Old Jack Burton said:

This is why I have said before that Seth Rollins needs to take a 2 to 3 year break right now. He's 31, is a former world champion, and is now running in circles in the mid-card while still trying to have barn-burner matches. He could go away for 3 years and come back at the age 34 to a triumphant return and have lots of fresh match-ups. And I think he would be able to build his physique up to an even more impressive level.

Um, he has no need to take a break. He just needs a fresh brand.

[Old Jack Burton]

Jan 16, 2018 2:48:56 GMT -5 AlexaBliss4Life said:

Jan 15, 2018 22:56:00 GMT -5 Old Jack Burton said:

This is why I have said before that Seth Rollins needs to take a 2 to 3 year break right now. He's 31, is a former world champion, and is now running in circles in the mid-card while still trying to have barn-burner matches. He could go away for 3 years and come back at the age 34 to a triumphant return and have lots of fresh match-ups. And I think he would be able to build his physique up to an even more impressive level.

Um, he has no need to take a break. He just needs a fresh brand.

As it is right now there is much to look at for him in a fresh brand. Who would you have him feud with? He's done Finn, Bray, Roman, Dean, Orton, Cena, HHH, and Brock. Braun Perhaps? I'd push that feud years down the line when Braun is more seasoned, has turned faced, and is in need of a truly despicable and powerful heel opponent.

He could feud with Styles, maybe. Those would be some great matches for sure. Really, one Wrestlemania or SummerSlam match would be enough given the toll it would take on his body. But after that he should take a long time off. Maybe do a couple of movies if he wants to.

[celtics543]

Jan 15, 2018 17:54:28 GMT -5 Reflecto said:

A bigger problem with the overexposure is likely the fact that there's too many other factors to this.

Right now, the WWE quality of wrestlers is at an all-time high. Where in previous times there were people who were clearly out of place on the roster and beyond hope, right now even the very worst person on the roster would be at least "pretty good".

Meanwhile, for outside the ring nature- social media has made it so that everyone on the roster seem like nice people, and the fans would like the best for them because of this.

This leads to another problem because as a result: Fans just like EVERYONE on the roster. They're rooting for everyone on the roster to do well and succeed, they want to see everyone become a star...

...and in the process, it's taken away the problem that they want EVERYONE to be champion at least once and make it to the top of their profession. The only problem is "you can get money seeing someone become a champion, but true star power and true draws can make you care about them AS THE CHAMPION"...but right now, when someone wins a title, it just goes to "He succeeded! Okay, who's next on the list?"

I agree with this too. Social media has done a nice job bringing more eyes to the product but it also lets all fans know that pretty much every guy and girl on the roster is a decent person that would be living out a childhood dream by winning the title. It's sort of like every guy on the roster has the HBK boyhood dream angle going on in real life.

So now you have guys that peak at 28 winning the WWE title, then have to flounder in the midcard afterwards. Sheamus, Swagger, Jericho circa 2005, Ambrose, Rollins etc. pluse you have the older guys still around because medical science has improved so much. Plus jobber guys seem to stick around forever. The only way someone gets let go now is if they do something ridiculous. I like guys like Ryder, Hawkins, Bo, Axel, and the like but really do they bring enough to the show to have had 10 years of employment? Zack Ryder has now been in WWE longer than Hogan's first run.

[HMARK Center]

Jan 15, 2018 20:09:38 GMT -5 bootytea said:

It has little to do with age and more to do with a lack of logical booking.

Look at Paige as a perfect example of someone that debuted on RAW by winning the Women's title which really made her character less interesting once she lost the strap.

WWE needs to make it okay that someone is in the midcard, instead of making it a place for people who really have nothing to do. Viewers are likely to be more invested in someone that dukes it out in the lower card then gradually move towards the main event, especially when the company has proven they will commit to someone that fits the majority of the audiences criteria.

Instead, we have a totally random midcard that often gets dominated by past or failed main eventers. I'm not sure why WWE tests out some people by making them champs instead of building to it. Once in a while is okay, but it seems to be their model. That's why a guy like Chris Masters isn't around.

This mentality of wins and losses being meaningless makes the whole product meaningless, regardless of age. There has to be some order. Sure, sprinkle in some random reigns here and there, but it shouldn't be the basis of the entire show.

Being aware of the handful of individuals that will be chosen no matter how shitty or unfitting they are to the role must be demoralizing for the crew..

Agreed; some companies book so that title matches are the big things that matter, but those companies end up putting more emphasis on wins and losses and also can afford to have midcards with fewer stories in them, as they all have smaller rosters and less TV time than WWE.

If WWE is going to have so many hours of TV and so many wrestlers on payroll, they can't afford to lack decent midcard feuds and can't afford to keep having "wrestling for wrestling's sake". Even just some simple talk from commentators about how a random matchup will "likely play into who's in line for a (whatever belt) title shot" would help the issue. They need narrative purpose, and the lack of it is why putting the big belts on these guys when they're so young ends up backfiring so much; they win them, lose them, and then have nowhere to go.

[trollrogue]

For every Rollins and Reigns that are pushed to the moon, you also get people like Titus O'Neal and Apollo Crews and Dana Brooke who are going up the ladder rung by run, inch by inch an clawing their way up slowly for every scrap they can get. Time will tell whether the Apollos who are pushed slow and get more of an 'organic' body of work (great matches, hard fought victories, no hotshotting to the moon) end up being in the same conversation as their peers when it's Hall of Fame induction time.

[sportatorium]

Jan 15, 2018 22:56:00 GMT -5 Old Jack Burton said:

This is why I have said before that Seth Rollins needs to take a 2 to 3 year break right now. He's 31, is a former world champion, and is now running in circles in the mid-card while still trying to have barn-burner matches. He could go away for 3 years and come back at the age 34 to a triumphant return and have lots of fresh match-ups. And I think he would be able to build his physique up to an even more impressive level.

Putting on great matches in the mid card should be a way to move up the card, or get others up the card. Hardly a waste of a talent.

Rollins is a great example of their lack of focus. He’s still doing the Shield thing with Roman, is a tag champ with Jordan about to face Sheamus & Cesaro at the Rumble- but is in a bizarre rivalry with Balor Club all at once. On top of all of that, Jordan is already starting to turn on him for no real reason. This is overbooking that would make Vince Russo tear up.