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Post by Cyno on Jan 28, 2018 18:39:47 GMT -5
The Rule of Two was more to ensure a clear hierarchy as Darth Bane dictated: a master and an apprentice. Too many Sith Lords, each with their own agendas and grabs for power, made the Sith Empire very hard by the end of the Jedi-Sith Wars to function properly as they'd rather fight among themselves than focus on the Jedi and the Republic. It was also a lot easier via the Rule of Two for the Sith to operate in secret and use subterfuge to foil the Jedi and the Republic.
Until Darth Maul revealed himself on Tatooine to the prequel incarnation of the Jedi Order, they thought the Sith extinct, so that subterfuge definitely worked well for them. Not that there weren't other Dark Sider threats the Jedi dealt with since Bane took the Sith into the shadows, but it was more Jedi who had fallen to the Dark Side or other Dark Side force users not connected to the Jedi or the Sith.
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Jan 28, 2018 18:42:15 GMT -5
The Jedi are weak, they always want a handicap match because they can't match up one on one with the dark side of the Force.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jan 28, 2018 18:57:16 GMT -5
Somewhat related but every movie seems to have a scene where a character spews some gibberish about bringing “balance to The Force”. So, are they ok with The Sith as long as they’re only fielding as many people as The Jedi are?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 28, 2018 19:34:37 GMT -5
The Rule of Two was more to ensure a clear hierarchy as Darth Bane dictated: a master and an apprentice. Too many Sith Lords, each with their own agendas and grabs for power, made the Sith Empire very hard by the end of the Jedi-Sith Wars to function properly as they'd rather fight among themselves than focus on the Jedi and the Republic. It was also a lot easier via the Rule of Two for the Sith to operate in secret and use subterfuge to foil the Jedi and the Republic. Until Darth Maul revealed himself on Tatooine to the prequel incarnation of the Jedi Order, they thought the Sith extinct, so that subterfuge definitely worked well for them. Not that there weren't other Dark Sider threats the Jedi dealt with since Bane took the Sith into the shadows, but it was more Jedi who had fallen to the Dark Side or other Dark Side force users not connected to the Jedi or the Sith. Yeah, the rule of two was put in place due to basically the Sith empire being nothing but a bunch of backstabbing assholes. Combined with the survival of the fittest ideology they subscribe to. There are two... when the student gets strong enough they attempt to replace the master... whether they live or die a new apprentice is found.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jan 28, 2018 22:24:50 GMT -5
The Rule of Two was more to ensure a clear hierarchy as Darth Bane dictated: a master and an apprentice. Too many Sith Lords, each with their own agendas and grabs for power, made the Sith Empire very hard by the end of the Jedi-Sith Wars to function properly as they'd rather fight among themselves than focus on the Jedi and the Republic. It was also a lot easier via the Rule of Two for the Sith to operate in secret and use subterfuge to foil the Jedi and the Republic. Until Darth Maul revealed himself on Tatooine to the prequel incarnation of the Jedi Order, they thought the Sith extinct, so that subterfuge definitely worked well for them. Not that there weren't other Dark Sider threats the Jedi dealt with since Bane took the Sith into the shadows, but it was more Jedi who had fallen to the Dark Side or other Dark Side force users not connected to the Jedi or the Sith. Yeah, the rule of two was put in place due to basically the Sith empire being nothing but a bunch of backstabbing assholes. Combined with the survival of the fittest ideology they subscribe to. There are two... when the student gets strong enough they attempt to replace the master... whether they live or die a new apprentice is found. Ultimately I thought Darth Bane was an idiot, and thought Darth Krayt did good to be rid of the rule of two. The Sith should have run themselves more like a fanatical cult. Such groups don't in fight as much, stay on target far better, and are much easier to control.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 29, 2018 7:48:19 GMT -5
Yeah, that's why Lucas had them so easily duped in the Prequels. The Jedi pretty much became complacent as they never had to really do much since they instilled peace from the earlier wars. It wasn't handled well (which is pretty much what could be said about ANY aspect of the prequels) but that was what Lucas was going for. That and they also became very dogmatic and conservative in their complacency. The Jedi as an organization in the prequels were close-minded to new ideas and different philosophies about the nature of the Force. It's why someone like Qui-Gon Jinn, who was an adherent of the Living Force and focusing on the moment instead of focusing only on the long-term, was considered a radical among the Jedi Council. THIS is the aspect that I wish Lucas had actually been able to communicate in the prequels; it would've made Anakin's fall a lot more understandable, would've given Mace Windu an actual character (he could've been the stodgy, dogmatic Jedi who wielded the strongest voice on the Council), would've made Yoda's motivations to go into exile a lot more understandable, etc. Like, having Yoda be aware that the Jedi had kind of lost the plot, but not being fully listened to by the Council? There's a lot to play with, there. Just so poorly executed.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jan 29, 2018 8:45:12 GMT -5
Until The Clone Wars, there was a period of 1,000 years of relative peace outside of a regional conflict here and there. Yeah, that's why Lucas had them so easily duped in the Prequels. The Jedi pretty much became complacent as they never had to really do much since they instilled peace from the earlier wars. It wasn't handled well (which is pretty much what could be said about ANY aspect of the prequels) but that was what Lucas was going for. To paraphrase Golobulus: And he failed us...MISERABLY!!!
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 29, 2018 9:37:03 GMT -5
Peace is an illusion, there is only conflict. Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me. For real though, that Sith Academy portion of KOTOR was awesome.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 29, 2018 12:59:21 GMT -5
That and they also became very dogmatic and conservative in their complacency. The Jedi as an organization in the prequels were close-minded to new ideas and different philosophies about the nature of the Force. It's why someone like Qui-Gon Jinn, who was an adherent of the Living Force and focusing on the moment instead of focusing only on the long-term, was considered a radical among the Jedi Council. THIS is the aspect that I wish Lucas had actually been able to communicate in the prequels; it would've made Anakin's fall a lot more understandable, would've given Mace Windu an actual character (he could've been the stodgy, dogmatic Jedi who wielded the strongest voice on the Council), would've made Yoda's motivations to go into exile a lot more understandable, etc. Like, having Yoda be aware that the Jedi had kind of lost the plot, but not being fully listened to by the Council? There's a lot to play with, there. Just so poorly executed. Yeah. I think Lucas was TRYING to communicate that and it's certainly the impression I got from the Jedi Council scenes in all three movies. But the execution was really clumsy and it became more about Anakin's teenage angst than the Jedi Order's own arrogance leading to its downfall. I think they also could've done a lot more to portray Obi-Wan's situation about being caught in the middle, not just between his friendship with Anakin and his duty to the Jedi Order, but between his loyalty to Qui-Gon's memory and the Jedi Council's dogma. They didn't even really explore that in the Clone Wars cartoon, which otherwise did a fantastic job with character development mostly.
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Post by Hakumental on Jan 29, 2018 13:05:53 GMT -5
{Spoiler}pure pazaak
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 29, 2018 13:44:42 GMT -5
THIS is the aspect that I wish Lucas had actually been able to communicate in the prequels; it would've made Anakin's fall a lot more understandable, would've given Mace Windu an actual character (he could've been the stodgy, dogmatic Jedi who wielded the strongest voice on the Council), would've made Yoda's motivations to go into exile a lot more understandable, etc. Like, having Yoda be aware that the Jedi had kind of lost the plot, but not being fully listened to by the Council? There's a lot to play with, there. Just so poorly executed. Yeah. I think Lucas was TRYING to communicate that and it's certainly the impression I got from the Jedi Council scenes in all three movies. But the execution was really clumsy and it became more about Anakin's teenage angst than the Jedi Order's own arrogance leading to its downfall. I think they also could've done a lot more to portray Obi-Wan's situation about being caught in the middle, not just between his friendship with Anakin and his duty to the Jedi Order, but between his loyalty to Qui-Gon's memory and the Jedi Council's dogma. They didn't even really explore that in the Clone Wars cartoon, which otherwise did a fantastic job with character development mostly. Exactly; Obi-Wan is the student of the rebellious "hippie" master, but now without Qui-Gon around he's being swayed by the more strict dogmas of the Jedi order, so it'd be no wonder Anakin would feel confused. Plus, Yoda watching helplessly as the Jedi fell due to losing their connection to the "living Force" would've given extra weight to his speech in Empire Strikes Back. Unfortunately, I think Lucas was too afraid to depict the Jedi as flawed largely due to merchandising concerns, or at least that'd be my best guess.
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,548
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Jan 29, 2018 15:37:33 GMT -5
I'll stick with the Grey Knights, the real Grey Knights. When your odds of surviving your training is one in a million...
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