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Post by psychokiller on Jan 31, 2018 14:24:41 GMT -5
I would easily. I’d honestly want the fans to be happy if I were running things. If I’m looking at crowd reactions & see someone getting huge crowd reactions each week I’m going to push that guy. Like Rusev for instance right now, even though I’m not the biggest fan of his & I like English a lot more, I would push Rusev to a better spot on the card due to merchandise sales & crowd reactions.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 31, 2018 14:41:59 GMT -5
Yup, it's a business. Unless the guy's doing something that'll hurt the company, he's an employee, not a friend so I don't care if I like him. Pretty much. If you can’t really do that, especially in a business like pro wrestling where crowd reactions are one of the two most important things, then I have no idea what you’re doing in entertainment at all.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 31, 2018 15:08:02 GMT -5
Re: the sports analogy, WWE is the only team in the big leagues.
There isn't another team eating it's market share. Revenue is generated from TV deals and advertising moreso than live events, TV ratings or fan dissatisfaction.
Vince McMahon has the flexibility to be as petty, vindictive man with anyone he doesn't like.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 31, 2018 17:02:49 GMT -5
I'll say this.
My first General Manager at the movie theatre I am employed at relayed a message from her boss to the employees. At the time business was slow due to various aspects such as carnivals, certain movies not bringing in numbers, and many other facets that hurt the business at the time. He went on to say that as a business you have to be better than their alternative. Yes, we're the only theatre in town, it also means we should strive to be better than the alternative that the customer might be interested in.
Were I in Vince's shoes I would want to see the consumer happy, continued increase in buyrates, ratings, and the need to continue to improve would always be there. I imagine running an operation of this magnitude isn't easy, is quite stressful, but I just view it from my perspective as listening to the audience and giving them what they want. If Roman is what they want to see then I am going to give it to them, if Rusev is who they're cheering for them I am pushing him, hell even if it's Jinder Mahal I am pushing him. You always want to give the best to the consumer and what Vince is giving them now is a stale, repetitive, predictable, and rehashed product that he knows he can churn out because fans in attendance and viewers at home will continue to watch.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 31, 2018 17:09:02 GMT -5
I'll say this. My first General Manager at the movie theatre I am employed at relayed a message from her boss to the employees. At the time business was slow due to various aspects such as carnivals, certain movies not bringing in numbers, and many other facets that hurt the business at the time. He went on to say that as a business you have to be better than their alternative. Yes, we're the only theatre in town, it also means we should strive to be better than the alternative that the customer might be interested in. Were I in Vince's shoes I would want to see the consumer happy, continued increase in buyrates, ratings, and the need to continue to improve would always be there. I imagine running an operation of this magnitude isn't easy, is quite stressful, but I just view it from my perspective as listening to the audience and giving them what they want. If Roman is what they want to see then I am going to give it to them, if Rusev is who they're cheering for them I am pushing him, hell even if it's Jinder Mahal I am pushing him. You always want to give the best to the consumer and what Vince is giving them now is a stale, repetitive, predictable, and rehashed product that he knows he can churn out because fans in attendance and viewers at home will continue to watch. You can say that last bit but... it's really not true, both ratings and attendance ratings have been down.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 31, 2018 17:23:15 GMT -5
I'll say this. My first General Manager at the movie theatre I am employed at relayed a message from her boss to the employees. At the time business was slow due to various aspects such as carnivals, certain movies not bringing in numbers, and many other facets that hurt the business at the time. He went on to say that as a business you have to be better than their alternative. Yes, we're the only theatre in town, it also means we should strive to be better than the alternative that the customer might be interested in. Were I in Vince's shoes I would want to see the consumer happy, continued increase in buyrates, ratings, and the need to continue to improve would always be there. I imagine running an operation of this magnitude isn't easy, is quite stressful, but I just view it from my perspective as listening to the audience and giving them what they want. If Roman is what they want to see then I am going to give it to them, if Rusev is who they're cheering for them I am pushing him, hell even if it's Jinder Mahal I am pushing him. You always want to give the best to the consumer and what Vince is giving them now is a stale, repetitive, predictable, and rehashed product that he knows he can churn out because fans in attendance and viewers at home will continue to watch. You can say that last bit but... it's really not true, both ratings and attendance ratings have been down. This is true, but not down enough to make a difference unfortunately. But in reality I doubt they would drop to the point of making a difference anyways. People still watch because it's the only big game in town as far as professional wrestling is concerned. People who say they're "done with" or stop watching still watch, still order the PPV's, and still have their Network subscription.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 31, 2018 17:47:41 GMT -5
You can say that last bit but... it's really not true, both ratings and attendance ratings have been down. This is true, but not down enough to make a difference unfortunately. But in reality I doubt they would drop to the point of making a difference anyways. People still watch because it's the only big game in town as far as professional wrestling is concerned. People who say they're "done with" or stop watching still watch, still order the PPV's, and still have their Network subscription. The big thing about that, though, is that it’s widely known that the WWE is living off the TV deals, which was why there were so many cutbacks after the last one didn’t bear the fruit it was expected to from network shows and such. So if USA didn’t give them the money, the WWE would be in much bigger trouble from the falling ratings and attendances then they are now.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 31, 2018 19:38:36 GMT -5
This is true, but not down enough to make a difference unfortunately. But in reality I doubt they would drop to the point of making a difference anyways. People still watch because it's the only big game in town as far as professional wrestling is concerned. People who say they're "done with" or stop watching still watch, still order the PPV's, and still have their Network subscription. The big thing about that, though, is that it’s widely known that the WWE is living off the TV deals, which was why there were so many cutbacks after the last one didn’t bear the fruit it was expected to from network shows and such. So if USA didn’t give them the money, the WWE would be in much bigger trouble from the falling ratings and attendances then they are now. But why is USA pumping money into them still if they're not getting the desired results? That's what I am confused about. All of a sudden the WWE will start putting out a decent to unpredictable product in hopes USA bails them out again?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 31, 2018 19:45:47 GMT -5
The big thing about that, though, is that it’s widely known that the WWE is living off the TV deals, which was why there were so many cutbacks after the last one didn’t bear the fruit it was expected to from network shows and such. So if USA didn’t give them the money, the WWE would be in much bigger trouble from the falling ratings and attendances then they are now. But why is USA pumping money into them still if they're not getting the desired results? That's what I am confused about. All of a sudden the WWE will start putting out a decent to unpredictable product in hopes USA bails them out again? Because WWE shows are the only ones that a) get them good ratings and b) keep them in the Top 20 Networks in America. Without Raw alone, they wouldn’t be on that list anymore for reasons that have been said before but essentially, USA can’t make a hit to save their lives and their most critically acclaimed show (Mr. Robot) is only there to make them look credible as a network since that doesn’t have great ratings either. WWE needs USA to live in the same way USA needs WWE to, well, be a top Network.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 31, 2018 20:23:14 GMT -5
But why is USA pumping money into them still if they're not getting the desired results? That's what I am confused about. All of a sudden the WWE will start putting out a decent to unpredictable product in hopes USA bails them out again? Because WWE shows are the only ones that a) get them good ratings and b) keep them in the Top 20 Networks in America. Without Raw alone, they wouldn’t be on that list anymore for reasons that have been said before but essentially, USA can’t make a hit to save their lives and their most critically acclaimed show (Mr. Robot) is only there to make them look credible as a network since that doesn’t have great ratings either. WWE needs USA to live in the same way USA needs WWE to, well, be a top Network. Makes sense then. Seems like all USA has is WWE and Chrisley Knows Best.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 31, 2018 23:19:55 GMT -5
If I put myself in his shoes, surely I would become a "GOOD DANCER FOR A WHITE GUY"?
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Squirrel Master on Feb 27, 2018 19:25:01 GMT -5
Put it from the point of view of running a sports team. You have a player who personality wise you don't like for whatever reason, but every weekend he goes out and proves why he's one of the best in the world at what he does and becomes a hero to fans across the land. Do you stop picking your game changing player because he irritates you or do you go with the less talented backup option and leave your best player to rot on the bench? Clearly, unless you're a total idiot, you go for the player that's going to bring you the most success. Pro-Wrestling shouldn't be any different. Indeed, to bring a historical metaphor, the George Steinbrenner- Billy Martin-Reggie Jackson dynamic produced one of the greatest pro baseball teams ever. Here is a recent thread I authored... officialfan.proboards.com/thread/569469/late-1970s-york-yankees-bronx
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Feb 27, 2018 19:49:14 GMT -5
could you push a wrestler you can't stand to the moon for the good of business. I don't think the situation is ever as clean-cut as this hypothetical. If Vince was given the choice between going with somebody who is absolutely, 100% guaranteed to make him more money and his only reservations are purely personal dislike, I think he'd always go for the money. By this point, I doubt even Vince hasn't noticed that Roman Reigns is a pathetic failure as the top babyface headliner, I think the issue is more that Vince and his team don't have confidence in anyone else on the fulltime roster to do any better (except Braun, and I do expect him to end up world/universal champ this year).
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Post by -Lithium- on Feb 28, 2018 1:26:19 GMT -5
You're Vince. You expanded your Dad's company and made yourself a millionaire by your own booking and the booking and talent of the people who you chose to surround yourself with. You mean the talent who had to fight against the stiflingly bad ideas that did nothing for their careers? The Ringmaster Steve Austin? Blue Chipper Rocky Maivia? Roman Reigns who literally right now has so many vocal detractors whose whole point is "If they could use this dude properly I'd be all over this but this is all wrong". Or what about someone like Kevin Nash who as Diesel was historically speaking a f***ing disaster, but who went on to WCW and become a massive draw, only to never really be used properly back in WWE again. Vince has never been a good judge of how to make talent get over. Austin and The Rock were both singled out as potential big deal but Vince's ability to make it happen wasn't there at all. Vince's ability to push talent has become worse and worse over the years, and now he's in a position where few people are over on what infuriatingly enough feels like his own ideas. He jerks talent around in the booking, nobody gets over, nobody gets to find their personalities and if they try to break out and "grab the brass ring" their hand gets swatted down. If the company doesn't believe in you, you'll spin your wheels. If the company does believe in you, you become the passion project of a man with no idea how to write for his audience. Then when somebody does get over and gets bigger reactions than anyone has in years, Vince buries him on TV, tries to shove him off into a dead end feud where he can puff up Cena's Mania opponent, and makes him dress like a garbageman. And it took not being the bigger man or saying "It's not for me but people love it" or even "I'm in the business of making money and if the fans want him they'll get him". He had to be held at gunpoint and fear his landmark 30th Wrestlemania be booed into f***ing extinction by a hostile audience who wasn't happy. But then what was waiting for Bryan? Reportedly, the Lesnar squash that Cena took where the whole thing was startling in seeing just how brutal it was. The fans were going to watch the guy they cheered and fought to get up to the top be brutalized by Brock so Roman could vanquish him. So nah screw the idea Vince is in any way the bigger man who will make money with someone he doesn't believe in. He isn't actually that good or that decent. He writes a show for him and doesn't really care about anything else, and it actively hurts the product, because he will put out the show he wants to put out even if it's in front of ten people. But then Vince has to go and give fans the finger by claiming he's a "good listener" and insisting someone who was over as f*** couldn't connect with the fans. Exactly. Vince is and almost always has been a creative cancer to his own company. If Vince got his way, Stone Cold and Mankind might have never even been signed when they were. The Rock wouldn't have become a megastar. He falls ass backwards into success and then thinks he did it. Unfortunately since there's not another company kicking his ass like WCW, he can just nitpick and micromanage everything no matter how terrible the creative aspect is. If he likes you, no reaction is bad enough. If he doesn't, no reaction is good enough. If Daniel Bryan got a 1/10th of the boos Roman does on a weekly basis, over the case of a like 5 show, that'd be it for Bryan. It's absolute bullshit. Vince is such a delusional idiot. Took him 9 months to give Bryan the title when he was absolutely, undeniably the most popular face in the company, and it took him 9 months to take this badass character who the fans loved and just ensured that they will never, ever be universally over as top face. The same way he f***ed up Diesel, Lashley, and even Cena. He and his flunkies need to go the f*** away. I seriously can not wait for the day Triple H takes over and things can finally be different and we don't have some senile old man running shit who will end someones push because they did something that day that reminds him of something they dont like. Or whos worried about the verbiage people use. CANT SAY HOSPITAL. ITS MEDICAL FACILITY. No, the f*** it isn't. It isn't any one thing. No one gives a shit about what the announcers call it. Go off and do another absolute failure of a new business you're only trying because you're a delusional fool who can't accept hes nothing more than a massively successful carny.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Feb 28, 2018 2:30:39 GMT -5
Monster reactions from the fans and he makes me a f*** ton of money? Hell yeah im gonna push him. Who cares if I don’t like him as long as the fans love him and I make money, he’s getting pushed. That’s just simple logic
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 28, 2018 2:31:55 GMT -5
Well, first of all, if I was Vince, I'd be doing a line of coke right now instead of booking some dumb ass wrestling show.
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Post by benstudd on Feb 28, 2018 4:10:28 GMT -5
You push guys that will make you money and get a reaction no matter what. For example Cena has charisma, there's no denying it. Yea you push him to the moon. That is what Vince did. That's what you should do. But you could also book him in a way that is interesting and compelling and with more imagination. And not amputate your whole product for him. Cause maybe i'm wrong but any other guys on your roster could be the next one. Better to have many blockbuster act than just one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 4:13:25 GMT -5
Well, first of all, if I was Vince, I'd be doing a line of coke right now instead of booking some dumb ass wrestling show. I do think this topic taken literally would lead to a lot of is having our eyes bleed out of our skulls as we just collapse under the weight of being Vince.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 28, 2018 4:18:29 GMT -5
It would really depend on WHY I don't like them.
If they're just not my cup of tea or something, sure, I'd probably book them. They might not be THE guy, but they would figure into booking if they're that popular. It'd depend entirely on what else was going on.
If I don't like them because of some potentially disastrous character flaws, I might be less willing to overlook my problems with them. It's cool and all to be popular, but if you're an unreliable f*** that no one can stand to work with, I would not pin all of my hopes on you.
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