Wrestling’s downturn in popularity in the early 90s

[willywonka666]

I became a fan in 85 when I was ten and my interest waned when Hogan lost to the Ultimate Warrior and started to back off which ultimately took three more years.

A lot seemed to drop out at this time, some claim the steroids scandal left a bad taste in their mouth, while I was rather upset about the sexual abuse scandals that were coming to light.

It just recently occurred to me that even though I didn’t outgrow wrestling, and I didn’t have much of a social life in high school, I was getting heavy into other stuff like music.

So what do you think was the main reason for its downturn? Sure it’s a combo of all of these I’d say, but I’m leaning towards the rock and wrestling generation hitting high school.

I came back in 95 or so, ten years after I had gotten into it and oddly enough, started to lose interest in the early 2000s and stopped watching religiously in 2006

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

In my opinion it started when Hogan was caught lying about the steroids in the Arsenio Hall show, that image of the superhero began to shatter. It also didn't help that all of the sudden Hogan shrank and looked less impressive during his matches.

The steroid trial was embarrassing but fortunately for the company, the OJ Simpson thing started during that time so everyone turned their attention to it. Even if Vince didn't go to jail it was revealed that he and Hogan both used steroids.

Then in order to clean their image they entered the disastrous New Generation Era.

Kevin Nash asked Gerald Brisco why he was the lowest paid wwe champion ever, Brisco answered him that it was because Diesel was the lowest drawing wwe champion ever.

During the period Shawn Michaels and The Kliq ran the company, Vince McMahon actually lost six million dollars of his own money. The wwe was reduced to run shows in high school gyms. There were also instances were the paychecks didn't cover road expenses.

Meanwhile at wcw, they alienated their fanbase by becaming wwe lite. This also killed their house shows. The lowest point was the Bill Watts administration he instituted a no moves from top rope policy and dimmed the lights so nobody could see the crowd, it looked third rate.

Then in the Eric Bischoff early years, while getting Hogan gave them credibility, Hogan really didn't drew early on because of the hokey cartoonish bullshit he demanded to be booked. The absolute worst was the Uncensored 96 main event, in which Hogan and Savage beat the whole heel locker room by themselves, to top it all the Macho Man did most all the selling.

[axebomber]

WWE's series of unfortunate events - Rock and Wrestling era getting stale, steroid and sex scandals, Warrior kind of blackmailing Vince, The tasteless Sgt Slaughter angle, all the roided up guys, like half the roster, needing to be let go/off the juice. It also seems like this is when (around 91) Hogan and Vince were at their most insufferable. Vince was making guys work hurt, like Perfect at Summerslam 91, Hogan being at his most arrogant (kicking out of two Earthquakes, dominating the end of every ppv even when he wasn't supposed to be the spotlight, phoning in the aftermatch celebrations, etc)

[Joe Neglia]

A lot of factors already mentioned, but there were many, many more reasons. It was just kind of a perfect storm that all came together in the span of 2-3 years to chip away everything that had been built.

A major stumbling block out the door for the '90s was the sudden realization that they had stopped properly building up top stars. When Warrior became champ, it became clearer, as they had spent so many years creating A-listers or getting same from elsewhere, that they had kinda forgotten to for a bit. Warrior had no real top-level challengers left that either he hadn't already gone through or that Hogan, the guy Warrior was supposed to be even better than, hadn't already thoroughly beaten. Characters they were introducing were lazy, goofy and just not up to par. Big Bully Busick, the Beverly Brothers, Tugboat, Repo Man. They just don't feel on the same level - characterwise, I mean - as the ones from the years before. There was no effort put into any of it by the promotional/creative end.

And the mass changing of the guard wasn't just the steroids situation. Where we once had Heenan standing in the ring chastizing the crowd, we now instead had Harvey Wippleman. Where we once had the familiar voices of Monsoon and Ventura, we were having to put up more with a revolving door of ultra-dull whitebread putzes (aka the Sean Mooney clone factory) and/or wrestlers who had no business calling a match filling in for them next to Heenan or Vince. Nostalgia acts were already starting to kick in, with guys like Snuka ('89 admittedly, but it was where it sort of started) and Steamboat and Sheik and Backlund all coming back.

Another big thing to affect WWF's business was the horrible streak of main even or higher-card programs that were being obliterated in the middle of the angle. The whole Jake/Warrior/UT/Savage/Sid continuing mess for instance, Warrior and his shenanigans during the Papa Shango and Savage/Flair/Perfect stuff, the Lawler Survivor Series deal. What was the point if we never got to an actual resolution? Things were chaotic and not really well-mapped out and it showed. The cracks were starting to appear.

[Reflecto]

Same reason for the downturn in popularity in the current era.

Wrestling, at its core, is a superstar system. If there's a genuine SUPERSTAR in wrestling who people want to see, then people will flock to wrestling to see them.

It's no different than it's been throughout wrestling history- when there was a boom, it came with stars who were bigger than the sport at the top. When those stars declined in popularity and there was no one to replace them, so did the sport.

The early '90s was just an example: Hulk Hogan was starting to decline. Randy Savage was a star, but never AS BIG as Hogan. Ultimate Warrior's run at the top bombed, and there was no one in the cupboard who looked like a sure-fire "NEXT ONE".

Meanwhile, WWF's falling tide had sank boats in the early '90s (as opposed to now where the sinking tide is doing better for non-WWE promotions). WCW in the early '90s had a firm "it seems like SOMETHING is happening here, we just don't know what" feeling around it in 1991-93", but WWF had become what people associated with pro wrestling, and it kept WCW a little bit lower than it could have been since people didn't totally trust that a non-WWF promotion could do it as well as WWF could.

By the time the New Generation and WCW tried to become WWF-lite, the damage was done.

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Feb 3, 2018 15:12:10 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

In my opinion it started when Hogan was caught lying about the steroids in the Arsenio Hall show, that image of the superhero began to shatter. It also didn't help that all of the sudden Hogan shrank and looked less impressive during his matches.

The steroid trial was embarrassing but fortunately for the company, the OJ Simpson thing started during that time so everyone turned their attention to it. Even if Vince didn't go to jail it was revealed that he and Hogan both used steroids.

Then in order to clean their image they entered the disastrous New Generation Era.

Kevin Nash asked Gerald Brisco why he was the lowest paid wwe champion ever, Brisco answered him that it was because Diesel was the lowest drawing wwe champion ever.

During the period Shawn Michaels and The Kliq ran the company, Vince McMahon actually lost six million dollars of his own money. The wwe was reduced to run shows in high school gyms. There were also instances were the paychecks didn't cover road expenses.

Meanwhile at wcw, they alienated their fanbase by becaming wwe lite. This also killed their house shows. The lowest point was the Bill Watts administration he instituted a no moves from top rope policy and dimmed the lights so nobody could see the crowd, it looked third rate.

Then in the Eric Bischoff early years, while getting Hogan gave them credibility, Hogan really didn't drew early on because of the hokey cartoonish bullshit he demanded to be booked. The absolute worst was the Uncensored 96 main event, in which Hogan and Savage beat the whole heel locker room by themselves, to top it all the Macho Man did most all the selling.

What made the last point worst that off all the people in it, The World Champion Flair takes the fall. I don't think fans took to kind the big "WWF" guy came in with that booking that you brought up and at the same time made Flair his personal punching bag.

The WWE was hurting because of the trial and Vince lost a bunch of money having to pay lawyer's and ext. Diesel drawing situation is debatable if he truly at fault or to blame. Was it the fact there was all of these cartoonish gimmicks running around. The fact that Mabel was headlining your big summer PPV against the champion (I'mn sure fans brought into Mabel as a MEer) Sid being the big feud for Diesel and we know Sid isn't the most graceful wrestler in the world. The heel picture was very weak at this point. I mean Bret spent most of the year facing Lawler and a Dentist.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Feb 4, 2018 5:01:11 GMT -5 Can you afford to pay me, Gah said:

Feb 3, 2018 15:12:10 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

In my opinion it started when Hogan was caught lying about the steroids in the Arsenio Hall show, that image of the superhero began to shatter. It also didn't help that all of the sudden Hogan shrank and looked less impressive during his matches.

The steroid trial was embarrassing but fortunately for the company, the OJ Simpson thing started during that time so everyone turned their attention to it. Even if Vince didn't go to jail it was revealed that he and Hogan both used steroids.

Then in order to clean their image they entered the disastrous New Generation Era.

Kevin Nash asked Gerald Brisco why he was the lowest paid wwe champion ever, Brisco answered him that it was because Diesel was the lowest drawing wwe champion ever.

During the period Shawn Michaels and The Kliq ran the company, Vince McMahon actually lost six million dollars of his own money. The wwe was reduced to run shows in high school gyms. There were also instances were the paychecks didn't cover road expenses.

Meanwhile at wcw, they alienated their fanbase by becaming wwe lite. This also killed their house shows. The lowest point was the Bill Watts administration he instituted a no moves from top rope policy and dimmed the lights so nobody could see the crowd, it looked third rate.

Then in the Eric Bischoff early years, while getting Hogan gave them credibility, Hogan really didn't drew early on because of the hokey cartoonish bullshit he demanded to be booked. The absolute worst was the Uncensored 96 main event, in which Hogan and Savage beat the whole heel locker room by themselves, to top it all the Macho Man did most all the selling.

What made the last point worst that off all the people in it, The World Champion Flair takes the fall. I don't think fans took to kind the big "WWF" guy came in with that booking that you brought up and at the same time made Flair his personal punching bag.

The WWE was hurting because of the trial and Vince lost a bunch of money having to pay lawyer's and ext. Diesel drawing situation is debatable if he truly at fault or to blame. Was it the fact there was all of these cartoonish gimmicks running around. The fact that Mabel was headlining your big summer PPV against the champion (I'mn sure fans brought into Mabel as a MEer) Sid being the big feud for Diesel and we know Sid isn't the most graceful wrestler in the world. The heel picture was very weak at this point. I mean Bret spent most of the year facing Lawler and a Dentist.

Sid was over like a motherf***er in all his runs.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

They kept relying on Hulk Hogan and stars from elsewhere, with no plan in place for what to do if his popularity and talent supply dried up. I know they tried to make Warrior the next Hogan, but they kept Hulk front and center throughout that time and gave the ball straight back to Hogan when Warrior failed to stop the decline that started under him, then they did the same to Bret. The death of the territories was another huge blow, the boom period fans were used to seeing new guys who were the finished product after years working their way up through the NWA, AWA and WCCW, the guys who came in from Memphis and Smokey mountain during the 90s to replace the mass exodus that happened post WBF weren't really in their league.

[Aceorton]

Feb 4, 2018 17:06:43 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

They kept relying on Hulk Hogan and stars from elsewhere, with no plan in place for what to do if his popularity and talent supply dried up. I know they tried to make Warrior the next Hogan, but they kept Hulk front and center throughout that time and gave the ball straight back to Hogan when Warrior failed to stop the decline that started under him, then they did the same to Bret.

I feel like it was this more than anything.

Hogan not only was stale by 1991-92, but was starting to come off as an ass. It was the same cookie-cutter stuff, glory hogging, etc., as someone mentioned earlier. The WWF assumed everyone would always love Hogan, see his actions as "good guy" behavior and want him as the top guy, and when that wasn't the case (see: Sid at the Rumble and the Bret-Yoko-Hogan debacle of '93), they had no idea what to do next ... after Hogan had already kneecapped Sid and Bret. It felt like they rode the Hogan train until it finally crashed for good in '93, then immediately had to build Bret back up and do the hasty USA thing with Luger just to have SOMETHING at the top. Bret was great, I thought, and I enjoyed his stuff, but aside from him and anything involving Perfect and arguably Michaels and Razor, by 1993 it felt really, really empty and forced as far as star power.

The worst was late 1994 through WM11 -- that felt like bottom. I think they had some star power back by late '95 (Bret, fully developed HBK and Diesel, Bulldog, Owen, Ahmed Johnson. Goldust) but at that point they didn't have the audience.

[Reflecto]

Feb 4, 2018 5:26:09 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Sid was over like a motherf***er in all his runs.

Sid was over, but in retrospect (and from what we saw in the 1990s), Sid was basically the "if he's your 3rd or 4th best guy, you probably have a good roster- but if Sid is your biggest name, you've got some problems" guy.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

On top of all these reasons, there's also society as a whole to consider.

WWF was very much an 80s product, the big flashy, patriotic stuff. It was Hair Metal.

The beginning of the 90s, things were changing in general and that kind of product was old hat, especially with the same guy at the forefront of it. Beyond Heyman's booking, there's a reason ECW became the cool company from basically nothing, it matched up with the trends of the time. If Vince had found a way to transition to something like that while Hogan et al were clearing out in 92/93 it would have been a big help as opposed to going even more cartoony and lame.

[cabbageboy]

I don't think the WWF could have seriously become a grunge sort of promotion, haha. Thing is, they kind of did change direction by 1992-93 to a more wrestling style of product. The early Raw tapings were certainly grittier than the 1980s stuff.

The odd thing is that the quality of wrestling to me was higher circa 1992-93 than it was in the 1980s.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Not a grunge promotion, that'd be too big a leap, but a harder edge to the product. There were elements of that, the Jake/Savage feud, the Bret/Owen one too, but that was mixed with more gimmicky wrestlers, the nuclear mutant, cowboys, race car drivers, the super patriot etc.

Even a change of colour scheme would have been nice, it was still always super bright primary colours. It looked like a cartoon.

[johnnyk9]

I stayed loyal to WWF but they were on hard times

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

Paul Heyman made that great analogy of wrestling being like hair metal at the time. People had just gotten really bored with it and wanted a change.

[SmashTV]

Feb 5, 2018 9:04:18 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

I don't think the WWF could have seriously become a grunge sort of promotion, haha. Thing is, they kind of did change direction by 1992-93 to a more wrestling style of product. The early Raw tapings were certainly grittier than the 1980s stuff.

The odd thing is that the quality of wrestling to me was higher circa 1992-93 than it was in the 1980s.

I have to agree with you on that; for all of the hit and miss ideas in the early to mid 90s, you had some amazing talent; Bret, Shawn (still yet to fully mature but on his way), Perfect (when healthy), Razor, 123 Kid, Bulldog, Owen, Hakushi. The smaller guys were being given a chance to shine and showcase their talents, but the WWF New Generation was about to have all manner of characters and gimmicks thrown into it, and it just seemed a bit cheesy and out of place in the early 90s.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the audience; the 8 - 12 year olds from the mid 80s were growing up and moving on, and while the WWF still catered to that demographic, there wasn't really anything for the fan in their mid to late teens to identify with.  

[cabbageboy]

Actually I'd say guys like Michaels were actively a turn off to the teenage guys watching. I know that most of the guys I knew in HS were not thrilled with the idea of him beating Bret Hart at WM 12, and also stuff like him simply superkicking and beating Diesel at the next PPV.

[axebomber]

Feb 8, 2018 23:15:33 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

Actually I'd say guys like Michaels were actively a turn off to the teenage guys watching. I know that most of the guys I knew in HS were not thrilled with the idea of him beating Bret Hart at WM 12, and also stuff like him simply superkicking and beating Diesel at the next PPV.

Not just teenage guys but most guys. I have no idea why they dropped the rockstar gimmick with HBK and turned him into more of a male stripper. If they continued to present him as a rockstar, like what they're doing with Nakamura, I think he would have been more successful. 

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

Feb 8, 2018 23:15:33 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

Actually I'd say guys like Michaels were actively a turn off to the teenage guys watching. I know that most of the guys I knew in HS were not thrilled with the idea of him beating Bret Hart at WM 12, and also stuff like him simply superkicking and beating Diesel at the next PPV.

I was definitely turned off by his male stripper routine. So were a lot of my friends. Nobody wanted to see some hair metal looking douche stripping to his skivvies, except maybe Vince McMahon.

[Joe Neglia]

Feb 8, 2018 14:52:30 GMT -5 SmashTV said:

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the audience; the 8 - 12 year olds from the mid 80s were growing up and moving on, and while the WWF still catered to that demographic, there wasn't really anything for the fan in their mid to late teens to identify with.  

I wouldn't say they didn't have anything...there were certainly a very few angles and characters during those years that showed Vince was at least trying to do something for older audiences and offered a handful of edgier bits that weren't meant for the kiddos. The Savage/Roberts feud (and Jake' heel run in general), the Savage/Flair stuff regarding Elizabeth (it was the first place I ever heard the phrase "damaged goods" in this regard), and the introduction of Razor Ramon (I didn't get the Scarface connection, but I instantly recognized the character as a criminal drug dealer in his vignettes). Even some of the complexities of the Hart family feud. These were definitely things that would have appealed more to growing and even mature audiences more than kids, but they weren't the norm. Drudging through the Roccos and Dinks and Bastion Boogers to get to whatever small nuggets of stuff aimed more at us wasn't worth it.