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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 3, 2018 9:28:59 GMT -5
The question is, did half of those spared Asgardians still disintegrate at the snap? Come to think of it, were those who disintegrated and those who spared a conscious effort by Thanos? Or was it just pure random, literally half the universe gets it and half doesn't? Random. Thanos couldn't possible have a universal list of Jericho on who should die. Nor would he care if he did. When he planned for Titan to cull its population, he wanted that to be random too. What happened, by total chance, is 'fair' in his view.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 3, 2018 9:31:44 GMT -5
Joe Russo confirmed in a Q&A: - Thanos allowed half the Asgardians to leave in escape pods - Valkyrie is leading those survivors - what happened to Korg and Miek is for Taika Waititi to decide - the destruction of Xandar was cut from the script early on for reasons of pacing and repetitiveness And the Russos continue the recent (and annoying) trend of directors like Zack Snyder and Rian Johnson having to explain basic plot points of their movies, precisely because audiences don't have enough information in the film to connect all the dots. If you have to explain something that isn't in the film, you should have simply kept it in the film in the first place to avoid the problem. Dialogue straight up says half the Asgardian lived more than once
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shai on May 3, 2018 10:05:43 GMT -5
www.didthanoskill.me/So yeah of course now there's a website to tell you if Thanos killed you. "You were spared by Thanos"
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Post by Duke Cameron on May 3, 2018 10:37:36 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 10:50:20 GMT -5
Got the Fingersnap of Doom.
Oh isn’t that just lovel
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Post by Alice Syndrome on May 3, 2018 11:51:01 GMT -5
It just occurred to me that seeing as this was Stranges best future, there is literally no eventuality where Star Lord doesn't fly into a murderous rage when he finds out that Gamora died.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on May 3, 2018 12:09:39 GMT -5
And the Russos continue the recent (and annoying) trend of directors like Zack Snyder and Rian Johnson having to explain basic plot points of their movies, precisely because audiences don't have enough information in the film to connect all the dots. If you have to explain something that isn't in the film, you should have simply kept it in the film in the first place to avoid the problem. -The half the Asgardians was mentioned in the movie -Whether or not Valkyrie or Meek and Korg survive isn’t a missing plot point, it’s a hang plot thread to be explained down the line. We were supposed to be wondering what happened to them, it’s not like we don’t know we’re getting sequels. I’m guessing the fact that they openly answered the question about Valkyrie means it’ll be addressed pretty early in A4 -The destruction of Xander was blatantly explained in the movie I like Infinity War, but for me, the movie relies on a lot of lazy exposition to move the story along. Which, when that doesn't work, is why we get the Russos or Feige doing interviews to explain stuff that isn't clear, obvious, or properly represented in the movie. For instance, Xandar is destroyed, okay, but how does Thor know this, but the Guardians don't, especially when we have literally seen the Guardians interacting with the Nova Corps in a previous movie, while the Asgardians never have? What makes this lazy exposition even more infuriating is that since we've actually seen the people of Xandar, wouldn't Thanos' big 'kill half the universe' move be more of a gut-punch if we saw Rhomann Dey, Dey's daughter, and Nova Prime, people we presumably cared about 10 movies ago, disintegrate? If I've seen and liked Guardians 1, then I have some kind of connection to Xandar, so show me what happens to it. Don't toss off Xandar's fate with a throwaway line of dialogue then steamroll onto the next narrative beat of Thanos' magical macguffins. I get that the Russos and Marcus and McFeely felt that the film would be too long and too repetitive to start with Xandar's destruction. Maybe Heimdall could see the destruction of Xandar and that's how Thor knows (but who cares, since the movie never explains it anyway). Which would then raise the question as to why Heimdall couldn't see Sanctuary II coming for the Asgardian refugee ship, but again, who cares, right? But for events to matter, like Thanos' siege of Xandar (if that's a plot point that's even going to carry over into future movies), it's often a good idea to show us the impact of events mattering. That's why people are raving about the scene in IW between Thor and Rocket: all of the losses of Ragnarok are shown on Thor's face, and we know that Thor can't hide his pain with humour, no matter how hard he tries. It's a rare instance in the movie of showing and not expounding. Sure, the 'half the Asgardians' plot point is explicitly mentioned, but besides Thor, Heimdall, and Loki (who at least admits that he's not actually Asgardian), we don't actually see any living Asgardians, let alone any escaping. Nor do we see or hear Thanos or Ebony Maw proclaim that half the Asgardians will be allowed to live; we have to take it on faith given Thor and Banner's exposition that this is simply so. (and how does Banner even know about Thanos' motivations and goals about wanting to wipe out half of life in the universe? Of course, we're not expected to dwell on the problem because it gets in the way of bif, pow. Whereas the previous films have shown us that Banner often can't remember anything when he's the Hulk, we're now expected to take at face-value that Banner knows everything that the Avengers need to know to confront Thanos, when we aren't shown how Banner, or even Hulk, comes by this information in the first place; he knows this information because that's what the story requires of him, his actual character and history be damned) You know how in Batman vs. Superman, that movie that everybody hates, when the Doomsday fight kicks off, and some guy talks about Metropolis being empty because it's night time and most people have gone home once the work day is done? In order to justify the city destruction scenes that follow? That is what the 'half the Asgardians' line felt like to me. Which sucked because part of the point of Thor 3 was 'Asgard isn't a place, but a people,' but when it came to IW, well, f*** those people, I guess--we don't even get to see them survive. Maybe that's why the absence of Valkyrie and Korg (and Miek, I suppose) sticks out in IW, because they were characters with actual lines in Thor 3, versus the many anonymous Asgardians and Sakaaran gladiators who populate the refugee ship. We had reasons to care about them, but at the moment when our caring about them should count the most, they're completely removed from the film. That's the problem with 'continuity' with these movies. The filmmakers can't have it both ways. 'Remember the Red Skull from that movie 14 installments ago? Well check this out!' 'But what about Valkyrie and Korg--shouldn't they be dead after Thanos' attack?' 'Nah, just wait until next year when we do Avengers 4, when we deal with the fates of those two (maybe)!' Audiences are expected to have at least a passing familiarity with the previous films. But when audiences also expect stuff to matter and to have consequences from those previous films, precisely because they do in fact have a passing familiarity with the previous movies, any issues that arise are simply hand-waved away with a simple 'it'll be in the next movie, promise!' line. Or, when this fails, people are expected to accept clunky exposition as satisfying explanations about absent characters who have goals, fears, desires, and personalities, the very things that audiences connected to from the start. And that's when the Marvel creative-types come out to do interviews to explain basic facts--who, where, when, what, why, and how--that would have been better served if they were in the movie in the first place. When I complain that Heimdall should have teleported Thanos into a nearby sun, I know I'm nitpicking. When I complain about how IW lacks basic information that could have been easily shown to audiences, and often willfully forgets or downplays character and story points from previous movies, then I feel like I'm being made a fool for actually taking these stories seriously. After all, what's more comic book-y than death fake-outs, retcons, and endless deferment of narrative closure, which IW offers in spades? I want stuff in IW to matter, to have consequences, to effect meaningful change in the MCU. But despite the fun the film invites, I can't help but feel it's a lot of empty calories.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 3, 2018 13:00:17 GMT -5
In movies "lazy exposition" is a necessary evil. You only have so much screen time to go around and only so much money to cover the cost of production.
I'm sure the writers and directors would've loved to include everything that has been brought up, probably even pushed for some of it, but how many extra minutes would it add to the run time and how many tens of millions of dollars would it cost to produce? The more expansive a story is, the more nonessential plot elements get left out and given throwaway lines of exposition.
Putting on a filmmaker's cap, do we really need an action sequence of Thanos laying waste to Xandar when he or Maw can drop that knowledge on Thor during an action sequence where the Asgardian lifeboat is under siege? Then you get a little further down the line and ask if you need a scene of Maw or Thanos describing the destruction of Xandar to Thor during an action sequence of the Asgardian lifeboat being under siege when you can show the results of the siege and have Thor explain to the Guardians that Xandar was laid waste to, information he could only have gotten from Thanos.
You've gotten to the same destination and saved a huge chunk of your budget and screen time for more vital scenes. It is as satisfying? Of course not, but you have to work within the limitations.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 16:48:54 GMT -5
Gee....I wonder if maybe possibly he knew Thanos did that because he talked to Thanos...the guy that was monologueing to him through the entire beginning of the movie and the entire rest of the movie, explaining his full plan and everything he did to everyone he met.
Sometimes "laziness" in exposition is just expecting your viewers to use a little logic to bridge gaps that don't need to be explained because they aren't very important.
Edit: Also Thor explicitly stated at the end of Avengers 2 that he knew of the emergence of the other infinity stones that had popped up in the previous movies besides the Mind Stone. It stands to reason the Asgardians must have been keeping up on the stones and their whereabouts for that to be known to him. It therefore also stands to reason he could have known of its capture by Thanos in the same way.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 3, 2018 16:55:04 GMT -5
We saw Thanos decimate several other places in the course of the flick, so mentioning he did the same to Xandar and Quill's expression of disbelief is all most audiences would need.
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on May 3, 2018 16:55:58 GMT -5
www.didthanoskill.me/So yeah of course now there's a website to tell you if Thanos killed you. "You were spared by Thanos" One computer says I died, while my phone and laptop says I was spared. So you're saying there's a chance....
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 3, 2018 16:56:07 GMT -5
Plus, you can always revisit that if you bring Nova into the fold. Be a cool 'untold' scene from Infinity War.
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on May 3, 2018 17:27:55 GMT -5
It said I was spared. It also said my wife was too THIS DAY CAN'T GET ANY WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 3, 2018 17:58:21 GMT -5
Plus, you can always revisit that if you bring Nova into the fold. Be a cool 'untold' scene from Infinity War. Nova is a character Marvel are looking to introduce in the next Phase, as it's expected to be a very cosmic-heavy Phase in order to give the Earth heroes a bit of breathing room. Thanos and the Black Order wrecking shit makes for a perfect prologue.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 3, 2018 18:04:04 GMT -5
Sometimes "laziness" in exposition is just expecting your viewers to use a little logic to bridge gaps that don't need to be explained because they aren't very important. I think audiences have come to expect every little detail to be spelled out for them in the last 10-15 years, to the point where making an audience read between the lines is seen as a bad thing. Maybe that's a result of TV's transition from episodic content to overarching stories, where there is the time to explore every single nook and cranny of the plot, maybe audiences are just getting lazier.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 3, 2018 18:16:22 GMT -5
Plus, you can always revisit that if you bring Nova into the fold. Be a cool 'untold' scene from Infinity War. Nova is a character Marvel are looking to introduce in the next Phase, as it's expected to be a very cosmic-heavy Phase in order to give the Earth heroes a bit of breathing room. Thanos and the Black Order wrecking shit makes for a perfect prologue. Agreed. the Nova Corps are decimated, maybe a helmet or whatever survives or a few Nova pilots escape and make their way to Earth and find Richard Rider and away we go. Maybe a little derivative of Green Lantern, but ya know Nova Corps is in a lot of respects anyway.
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Post by arrogantmodel on May 3, 2018 19:18:50 GMT -5
The question is, did half of those spared Asgardians still disintegrate at the snap? Come to think of it, were those who disintegrated and those who spared a conscious effort by Thanos? Or was it just pure random, literally half the universe gets it and half doesn't? Random. Thanos couldn't possible have a universal list of Jericho on who should die. Nor would he care if he did. When he planned for Titan to cull its population, he wanted that to be random too. What happened, by total chance, is 'fair' in his view. I just saw it this morning. Loved it, and FYI...I was also killed for the good of the universe. 😕 But didn't Thanos address Stark and say he respected him and kind of hinted that he would be spared in the genocide? Maybe Thanos had a modicum of control.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 3, 2018 19:25:39 GMT -5
Random. Thanos couldn't possible have a universal list of Jericho on who should die. Nor would he care if he did. When he planned for Titan to cull its population, he wanted that to be random too. What happened, by total chance, is 'fair' in his view. I just saw it this morning. Loved it, and FYI...I was also killed for the good of the universe. 😕 But didn't Thanos address Stark and say he respected him and kind of hinted that he would be spared in the genocide? Maybe Thanos had a modicum of control. He did say he respected him, but said nothing about sparing him. He said he hoped whatever half of humanity remained remembered him..plus, he was killing Tony at the time before Strange intervened.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 3, 2018 19:28:48 GMT -5
I just saw it this morning. Loved it, and FYI...I was also killed for the good of the universe. 😕 But didn't Thanos address Stark and say he respected him and kind of hinted that he would be spared in the genocide? Maybe Thanos had a modicum of control. He did say he respected him, but said nothing about sparing him. He said he hoped whatever half of humanity remained remembered him..plus, he was killing Tony at the time before Strange intervened. Correct. He was ready to kill Tony before Strange stopped him and gave him the stone Also Thanos had before in regards to Titan he wanted the people to be picked at Random because it was "fair" so it would be the same for the universe as it wasn't a pick and choose on who he wanted to disappear
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 3, 2018 19:33:53 GMT -5
Plays into his balance kick. It's not his to choose. Unlike the comics version, this Thanos doesn't even want conquest for its own sake or to curry favor with the embodiment of Death. He just believes in what he's doin, despite bein a genocidal maniac.
He's kinda like the comic/animated Ra's al Ghul on a universal scale.
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