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Post by Tenshigure on May 16, 2018 17:24:26 GMT -5
Since we're back to talking about how this case will and should effect Enzo, I think it's time to pull up a very good assessment by Jokaine from the original 60+ page thread, particularly the last paragraph: Pretty much. He ain't guilty of being a rapist, but he's one million percent guilty of being a dumbass.
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Post by MrElijah on May 16, 2018 17:25:15 GMT -5
Imo he would need to be trouble free for about a year before I give him another chance if I was Vince Plus there is the matter of if Enzo wants to wrestle. There's no question he was trying to use wrestling to jump start himself into entertainment industry Yep. Enzo has an album coming out. Meltzer even said that wrestling is just his thing used to invade the entertainment industry. Besides that Enzo was in deep shit before this. Dude bad mouthed the business enough that Reigns had to kick him off the bus. Enzo had goons in the locker room causing trouble lmao. Dude was like David Ruffin showing up at the picnic lmao. Speaking of which f***ing David Ruffin.... Take your damn like
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 16, 2018 17:31:49 GMT -5
Pretty much. He ain't guilty of being a rapist, but he's one million percent guilty of being a dumbass.
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Post by Yacht Persona on May 16, 2018 17:36:13 GMT -5
Good for him not being charged and being able to move on with his life, and good for him not bringing himself any negative attention during this process. I do think a lot of people were far too quick to label him guilty before any charges were even presented, arguing that "well, since he's a turd in his personal life, it only makes sense that he did this." It was wrong to think that, and also wrong to call him a "piece of shit" for the same reason. He may he obnoxious and act like what he thinks a rock star should act like, but that doesn't make him an immoral human being or someone that's out to ruin the lives of other people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 17:38:04 GMT -5
I saw a hell of a lot more people saying "it's unfair to Enzo if he got fired for being accused of a crime he didn't commit!" than I did "He's damaged goods whether it's true or not, so they should get rid of him".
For all the folks concerned about him.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on May 16, 2018 17:44:35 GMT -5
For the record, I've been wrongly accused before. It f***ing sucks. I was cleared, but 6 months later, my life, my interactions with people I know, are not the same.
The difference is, I worked with everyone I needed to and was transparent from day one.
Enzo, is just a f***ing idiot. Cleared doesn't necessarily mean innocent.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 16, 2018 18:00:06 GMT -5
Just going to clear up the actual like, basics of the justice system a little bit here because there's some posts in this thread reading in a very "He has been proven objectively innocent of not having done this so you're all horrible people for ever holding that against him". To not have charges pressed is simply for there to be insufficient evidence of a crime taking place, which in this case obviously means that it's his word against hers on whether it was consensual or not. It is not the police saying "Nah we have nothing on you, you didn't do anything wrong buddy", and unless there is strong evidence to the contrary of it even being possible--he wasn't even in the city, he was documented with other people all night, he actually lost his penis in a tragic lawnmowing accident--that just means there is not a sufficient enough case to conclusively prove that he committed a crime.
Trials are built entirely around proving guilt, but there is one peculiar kink in things beyond how we see the guilt/innocence dichotomy: nobody pleads innocent and a court does not find people innocent. Even if you DNA evidence ends up saving you from a crime you were wrongfully convicted of, you are not seen in a legal basis as being proven "innocent", you're proven "not guilty", because structurally, the court system is built around the prosecution proving their case and proving not only that there was a crime, but several levels down of intention and knowledge. Aside from the many procedural technicalities that can let someone walk if damning evidence was poorly handled or unlawfully obtained, if the police didn't say certain words during the process, if any of thousands of little bits and pieces don't let legitimately guilty people walk on crimes they committed, a jury can only rule on whether or not the case against the accused has convinced them that the person is guilty.
So no, Enzo will not be charged for this crime. That means nothing as far as whether or not he committed it, and in fact means even less than if it were to go to trial and he be found not guilty. Now I'm not saying this information means people can go around calling Enzo a megarapist for the rest of his life and this thread already has a lot of people backing off, but this thread has some hard moral condemnation coming down from people that relies on a very flawed understanding of what this actual means and how the justice system actually functions, taking it to the very logical extreme of "this proves his unconditional innocence and you're monsters" that doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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Post by Clutchhausen on May 16, 2018 18:02:32 GMT -5
Hm. Going by the replies in here you'd think Enzo pissed in everybody's Froot Loops this morning. I mean....god damn.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on May 16, 2018 18:05:02 GMT -5
I figured he wouldn't be charged, but he should probably stay away.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 16, 2018 18:05:51 GMT -5
Hm. Going by the replies in here you'd think Enzo pissed in everybody's Froot Loops this morning. I mean....god damn. Crazy what being caught up in a rape investigation can do.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 16, 2018 18:13:28 GMT -5
I hope this is something he can ultimately learn from because his life was in a downward spiral before this whole thing happened. I won't hold my breath but it's nice to see this ultimately wasn't the worst case scenario and maybe Enzo could one day find himself back in the WWE, depending on how true the whole "Found out along with everyone else" thing is, because if it is, aside from the heat of this ordeal dying down, I don't see why WWE wouldn't scoop him back up.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 16, 2018 18:32:08 GMT -5
Just going to clear up the actual like, basics of the justice system a little bit here because there's some posts in this thread reading in a very "He has been proven objectively innocent of not having done this so you're all horrible people for ever holding that against him". To not have charges pressed is simply for there to be insufficient evidence of a crime taking place, which in this case obviously means that it's his word against hers on whether it was consensual or not. It is not the police saying "Nah we have nothing on you, you didn't do anything wrong buddy", and unless there is strong evidence to the contrary of it even being possible--he wasn't even in the city, he was documented with other people all night, he actually lost his penis in a tragic lawnmowing accident--that just means there is not a sufficient enough case to conclusively prove that he committed a crime. Trials are built entirely around proving guilt, but there is one peculiar kink in things beyond how we see the guilt/innocence dichotomy: nobody pleads innocent and a court does not find people innocent. Even if you DNA evidence ends up saving you from a crime you were wrongfully convicted of, you are not seen in a legal basis as being proven "innocent", you're proven "not guilty", because structurally, the court system is built around the prosecution proving their case and proving not only that there was a crime, but several levels down of intention and knowledge. Aside from the many procedural technicalities that can let someone walk if damning evidence was poorly handled or unlawfully obtained, if the police didn't say certain words during the process, if any of thousands of little bits and pieces don't let legitimately guilty people walk on crimes they committed, a jury can only rule on whether or not the case against the accused has convinced them that the person is guilty. So no, Enzo will not be charged for this crime. That means nothing as far as whether or not he committed it, and in fact means even less than if it were to go to trial and he be found not guilty. Now I'm not saying this information means people can go around calling Enzo a megarapist for the rest of his life and this thread already has a lot of people backing off, but this thread has some hard moral condemnation coming down from people that relies on a very flawed understanding of what this actual means and how the justice system actually functions, taking it to the very logical extreme of "this proves his unconditional innocence and you're monsters" that doesn't have a leg to stand on. You’re 100% correct. It’s the attitude of “He probably did it anyway because news I read makes me think he’s an ass”. People seem legit disappointed he was cleared.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 16, 2018 18:38:28 GMT -5
Just going to clear up the actual like, basics of the justice system a little bit here because there's some posts in this thread reading in a very "He has been proven objectively innocent of not having done this so you're all horrible people for ever holding that against him". To not have charges pressed is simply for there to be insufficient evidence of a crime taking place, which in this case obviously means that it's his word against hers on whether it was consensual or not. It is not the police saying "Nah we have nothing on you, you didn't do anything wrong buddy", and unless there is strong evidence to the contrary of it even being possible--he wasn't even in the city, he was documented with other people all night, he actually lost his penis in a tragic lawnmowing accident--that just means there is not a sufficient enough case to conclusively prove that he committed a crime. Trials are built entirely around proving guilt, but there is one peculiar kink in things beyond how we see the guilt/innocence dichotomy: nobody pleads innocent and a court does not find people innocent. Even if you DNA evidence ends up saving you from a crime you were wrongfully convicted of, you are not seen in a legal basis as being proven "innocent", you're proven "not guilty", because structurally, the court system is built around the prosecution proving their case and proving not only that there was a crime, but several levels down of intention and knowledge. Aside from the many procedural technicalities that can let someone walk if damning evidence was poorly handled or unlawfully obtained, if the police didn't say certain words during the process, if any of thousands of little bits and pieces don't let legitimately guilty people walk on crimes they committed, a jury can only rule on whether or not the case against the accused has convinced them that the person is guilty. So no, Enzo will not be charged for this crime. That means nothing as far as whether or not he committed it, and in fact means even less than if it were to go to trial and he be found not guilty. Now I'm not saying this information means people can go around calling Enzo a megarapist for the rest of his life and this thread already has a lot of people backing off, but this thread has some hard moral condemnation coming down from people that relies on a very flawed understanding of what this actual means and how the justice system actually functions, taking it to the very logical extreme of "this proves his unconditional innocence and you're monsters" that doesn't have a leg to stand on. You’re 100% correct. It’s the attitude of “He probably did it anyway because news I read makes me think he’s an ass”. People seem legit disappointed he was cleared. Nah people were just done with Enzo before this shit happened and have now reverted back to "alright let's move on from that then but also nah I'm good".
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on May 16, 2018 18:43:43 GMT -5
If he ever does get brought back I hope this is his wake-up call that you can't just treat people any way you want (not saying he did it, but other stories of him just being a general douche to people) without reprecussions.
He was pulling modern day Flair's "living the gimmick".
I hope this is his slap in the face, he knows how close he came to losing everything, including his reputation, and ability to work, and tries to improve himself as a person while still being "Enzo" for the crowd.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 16, 2018 18:44:32 GMT -5
You’re 100% correct. It’s the attitude of “He probably did it anyway because news I read makes me think he’s an ass”. People seem legit disappointed he was cleared. Nah people were just done with Enzo before this shit happened and have now reverted back to "alright let's move on from that then but also nah I'm good". Could be and I hope so, and hope it’s just a vibe I’m picking up.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 16, 2018 18:45:45 GMT -5
Ok. I'm listening to an Enzo freestyle on Hot 97 right now.
...his flow is really boring, honestly. It's like he lacks the energy that he projects on television. And he keeps changing his delivery- I mean, lots of rappers do that and they can make it sound melodic and great, like Young Thug. Enzo is no Thugger. His transitions sound lazy. At least Cena, who's not exactly K-Dot tier, puts some "oomph" and force into his raps, like his verse with Wiz.
Pass. There are a number of "mumble rappers" I'd take over him.
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Frosty
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Post by Frosty on May 16, 2018 18:46:17 GMT -5
When people say, "cleared doesn't mean innocent," it carries the connotation that there still a perceived guilt. Cleared doesn't mean innocent, nor does it mean guilty; it means cleared. Perceptions should be treated with the proper irrelevance. Sorry, it's an annoyance of mine.
This situation was unfortunate for all parties involved.
Assuming the information about Enzo having no prior knowledge is accurate, I would assume he'll regain his employment. Everyone makes poor choices in their lifetime; anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar. Hopefully he can learn and grow from this situation.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on May 16, 2018 18:48:01 GMT -5
Don't think he'll return or that anyone in the company wants him back.
Guy will probably be a weed carrier for other wack rappers like post Malone and other losers.
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Frosty
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Post by Frosty on May 16, 2018 18:49:46 GMT -5
Nah people were just done with Enzo before this shit happened and have now reverted back to "alright let's move on from that then but also nah I'm good". Could be and I hope so, and hope it’s just a vibe I’m picking up. I am picking up the same vibe.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on May 16, 2018 18:53:11 GMT -5
Ok. I'm listening to an Enzo freestyle on Hot 97 right now. ...his flow is really boring, honestly. It's like he lacks the energy that he projects on television. And he keeps changing his delivery- I mean, lots of rappers do that and they can make it sound melodic and great, like Young Thug. Enzo is no Thugger. His transitions sound lazy. At least Cena, who's not exactly K-Dot tier, puts some "oomph" and force into his raps, like his verse with Wiz. Pass. There are a number of "mumble rappers" I'd take over him. Lil Yachty or Enzo? I'd rather go deaf personally.
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