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Post by Rolent Tex on May 23, 2018 17:30:29 GMT -5
Big difference is that Hulk has creative control and actively sabotaged other wrestlers careers, he considered a threat and refused to even wrestle (let alone lose) anyone he didn’t consider a buddy. Brock maybe there just for the paycheck but you’ll never hear “that don’t work for me brother” from Brock We may not hear it from him, but Titty Master Dean Ambrose sure as hell did.
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 23, 2018 17:34:28 GMT -5
I should also throw in that I completely meant in the sense of how they are booked...no backstage shenanigans or power playing. Brock has basically gone Super Saiyan on the WWE while Hogan could have lost at anytime without his buddies.
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 23, 2018 18:10:47 GMT -5
Nah, Lesnar has lost clean since being back in WWE. So these are his losses since returning not including the Rumble matches. John Cena, Extreme Rules 2012 after AA onto steel steps HHH, WrestleMania 29 after Pedigree onto steel steps John Cena, Night of Champions 2014 by DQ after Seth Rollins attacked. Four AA’s were involved. Seth Rollins, WrestleMania 31 after Rollins cashed in and pinned Reigns Undertaker at SummerSlam 2015 after shenanigans...lots of shenanigans Roman Reigns, Fastlane 2016 after pinning Ambrose in a triple threat Goldberg, Survivor Series 2016 in a squash So his losses came from eating steel steps twice, a DQ after not losing to 4 finishers, two triple threat losses where he wasn’t pinned, submission after shenanigans when he thought he had won already and he didn’t tap, and Goooooooollllldddddberrrrrrrgggg! Outside of Goldberg, none of those losses came without heavy protection.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on May 23, 2018 18:52:26 GMT -5
Until Lesnar says, "that doesn't work for me brother" in putting someone over after over a year of build it's not even close.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on May 23, 2018 18:54:47 GMT -5
I was looking back through some Hogan matches and Lesnar is just being booked so much more dominant than Hogan ever was. It almost makes some of the Hogan bashing back then look silly. How many losses has Bork taken since winning the title from Goldberg? (Other than Survivor Series and the Rumble how many matches did he lose that year in general?) From 2016 through now...Brock has had 29 matches and lost 4. Two were Royal Rumble matches and another was a triple threat. If you look at the timeline with Hogan spray painting the title after beating the Giant and losing to Sting, Hogan had 26 matches. He only won 5 clean. The rest had a lot of DQ finishes, Luger beating him on Nitro for the title and he lost to Jacques Rougeau in Quebec for his retirement match. I’m at the point why I can see how some people can’t see there being anyone on the roster kayfabe wise that can beat him. He’s just been booked that dominant. I honestly thought this thread was going to be about Hogan's '94-'95 title reign, which I think closer comparisons can be drawn with.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on May 23, 2018 18:56:34 GMT -5
He made Dean Ambrose look awful in a match where the idea was to make Ambrose look strong in defeat. Sting in 1997 before Starrcade was as popular as any babyface in the 90s including Steve Austin, are you comparing Sting to Dean Ambrose? lol beyond laughable. In the most friendly way possible, I'd suggest dropping the condescending attitude.
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 23, 2018 19:02:23 GMT -5
I was looking back through some Hogan matches and Lesnar is just being booked so much more dominant than Hogan ever was. It almost makes some of the Hogan bashing back then look silly. How many losses has Bork taken since winning the title from Goldberg? (Other than Survivor Series and the Rumble how many matches did he lose that year in general?) From 2016 through now...Brock has had 29 matches and lost 4. Two were Royal Rumble matches and another was a triple threat. If you look at the timeline with Hogan spray painting the title after beating the Giant and losing to Sting, Hogan had 26 matches. He only won 5 clean. The rest had a lot of DQ finishes, Luger beating him on Nitro for the title and he lost to Jacques Rougeau in Quebec for his retirement match. I’m at the point why I can see how some people can’t see there being anyone on the roster kayfabe wise that can beat him. He’s just been booked that dominant. I honestly thought this thread was going to be about Hogan's '94-'95 title reign, which I think closer comparisons can be drawn with. If I had more exposure to the 94-95 reign I’d have probably used it. I started watching old school Nitros right before I cancelled my subscription again.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on May 23, 2018 19:16:21 GMT -5
Eh, at least when Brock isn't around they mostly forget about him. Whenever Hogan wasn't around the announce team back then made sure to remind you he was still the companies top dog.
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 23, 2018 19:24:05 GMT -5
Eh, at least when Brock isn't around they mostly forget about him. Whenever Hogan wasn't around the announce team back then made sure to remind you he was still the companies top dog. Poochie?
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Post by Neo: "The One" who CLAPS on May 23, 2018 21:03:14 GMT -5
To anyone who is arguing Lesnar is worse-
Let’s repeat. Starrcade was built up for a year. Hogan at that point, had been the biggest star in wrestling for 12 years. If he did the right thing at Starrcade, hell, if he just lost clean, WCW might have ended up winning the war. (Although, they probably would have still screwed it up.)
Brock? Yeah he’s lazy sometimes, but take the AJ match. Brock made AJ look like he had a chance of winning. Hogan would’ve Billy Kidmanned him.
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 23, 2018 23:32:48 GMT -5
To anyone who is arguing Lesnar is worse- Let’s repeat. Starrcade was built up for a year. Hogan at that point, had been the biggest star in wrestling for 12 years. If he did the right thing at Starrcade, hell, if he just lost clean, WCW might have ended up winning the war. (Although, they probably would have still screwed it up.) Brock? Yeah he’s lazy sometimes, but take the AJ match. Brock made AJ look like he had a chance of winning. Hogan would’ve Billy Kidmanned him. What do you mean would have? I’m looking at you Hogan/Abyss vs Flair/Styles...
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on May 24, 2018 7:46:36 GMT -5
Lesnar did not ultimately destroy one wrestling promotion and was well on his way to destroying a second before he was dropped or left. He has that, at least, and one can argue that WWE could withstand such a thing today.
However, being less terrible does not necessarily diminish the fact that Lesnar has been utterly terrible for WWE, at least creatively, during this second run. If anything, Lesnar as champion is Exhibit A in the for the arguments that WWE doesn't care what fans want.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 24, 2018 8:21:42 GMT -5
Brock might not be actively doing the thing, but the effect is the same; the company is giving him all of the Hogan shit without him, and the fact that it's f***ign with careers and sinking dudes without even having some kind of constructive "someone with a lot of power is greedy" reason is almost dumber. Vince has given Brock everything he wants and then heaped on a million dollars and free blowjobs without needing to be asked to. Hogan at least fought to get his shit in, Lesnar is being given so much preferential treatment that a year-long build and attempt to finally crown their big top guy is derailed last second by "Eh f*** it Lesnar can hold onto it some more" like somehow that's going to fix anything. Nah, this is balls, it needs to stop.
At least as far as my actual enjoyment of the show, WWE Lesnar is definitely worse than WCW Hogan. I kept watching Nitro after Starrcade, but I'm not watching any WWE programming until Brock is gone at the bare minimum.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 24, 2018 8:40:00 GMT -5
Taking politics out of it, The Godwins Law of pro wrestling, Brock is worse, be ause he's f***ing boring as hell. Hogan, for all his bs, was able to sell peril, and the matches were not channel changing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 8:45:26 GMT -5
I think people forget how coma inducing Hogans matches were in WCW. Brock is at least believable, if WWE was a shoot, he most likely would be the champion. Whereas Hogan in the late 90s, you're thinking "I'm pretty sure 75% of the roster could kick this old guys ass"
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on May 24, 2018 8:47:06 GMT -5
.....ok ok ok here's a list of the dungeon of doom and you tell me if Lesnar is worse than wcw era Hogan.
Avalanche aka Shark Kamala Taskmaster King Curtis Giant Brother Bruti aka Clipmaster aka Butcher aka Man with no Name aka Man with no Face aka Zodiac aka Booty Man aka Disciple Alliance to end hulkamania The Yethay f***ing Hogan in the ass.
I'd rather have Lesnar thank you.
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Post by jivesoulbrah on May 24, 2018 9:04:34 GMT -5
A clean finish in WCW was extremely rare. Every nitro ended with a run in then a brawl, EVERY SINGLE TIME
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 24, 2018 9:24:27 GMT -5
The Godwins Law of pro wrestling, If there is a mud puddle the heel will be thrown into it, especially if they are an arrogant snob?
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 24, 2018 10:05:07 GMT -5
I think people forget how coma inducing Hogans matches were in WCW. Brock is at least believable, if WWE was a shoot, he most likely would be the champion. Whereas Hogan in the late 90s, you're thinking "I'm pretty sure 75% of the roster could kick this old guys ass" He’s definitely believable...but it’s part of the transformation of WWE into a WWE/WCW/UFC abomination. What Brock is doing is part of what they used to bash WCW for. Now if they could actually elevate the secondary titles when he wasn’t around into something that could headline shows, it wouldn’t be a problem.
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Post by RedSmile on May 24, 2018 11:19:17 GMT -5
Write the man a check, and Lesnar drops the title to Samoa Joe. Lesnar is almost too easy to work with.
Not sure you can say the same with Hogan.
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