riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 28, 2018 12:11:00 GMT -5
I realize I am probably in the minority when it comes to this opinion. But I understand what Zack Snyder was attempting to do with Superman in general. He was showing how if Superman were real and in a modern setting how he would be received as a whole. Let's look at this from a different perspective here. If an alien who is virtually unstoppable, cannot be harmed, and has the abilities of a God to a degree came to Earth and while he doesn't showcase any threat the world in and of itself wouldn't embrace him 100%. And that would be fine in the hands of a director with the talent to pull it off. Much like George Lucas, Snyder is an excellent visual artist (even if he is too fond of desaturating everything he shoots into oblivion) but he's terrible at just about every other part of the job. Well I don't necessarily blame him 100%. I fully admit I was one of those individuals who felt that critics had a Pro-Marvel agenda and while some critics do have some form of an agenda, it doesn't explain how the WB could screw up this badly as far as their universe is concerned. I am not going to say that Snyder is a misunderstood cinematic and story genius, however, as I said in my previous post, I understand what he was going for with the Superman mythology in and of itself. When people think of Superman they obviously think of Christopher Reeve and it wouldn't surprise me if they had a meeting and said "We can't have Superman be like that. It's too cheesy and people would laugh at him instead of embracing/appreciating him."
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 28, 2018 12:17:34 GMT -5
Yea, for those that didn't read the other thread he said some outlandish shit and the worst part is this is all his own head canon He tried to kill off Dick Grayson before he even showed up. That alone makes him the absolute worst comic book film director of all time, and that's including Josh Trank, Joel Schumacher and Mark Steven Johnson. Zack Snyder is goddamn garbage at his job, he shouldn't be allowed near a DC property ever again. He's a bad director and a worse storyteller. I hope to never see him attached to anything I care about ever again. Hey now, Joel Schumacher made The Client, Lost Boys, Falling Down, Phone Booth, and A Time To Kill. Just for those alone he has my respect.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 28, 2018 12:20:21 GMT -5
And that would be fine in the hands of a director with the talent to pull it off. Much like George Lucas, Snyder is an excellent visual artist (even if he is too fond of desaturating everything he shoots into oblivion) but he's terrible at just about every other part of the job. Well I don't necessarily blame him 100%. I fully admit I was one of those individuals who felt that critics had a Pro-Marvel agenda and while some critics do have some form of an agenda, it doesn't explain how the WB could screw up this badly as far as their universe is concerned. I am not going to say that Snyder is a misunderstood cinematic and story genius, however, as I said in my previous post, I understand what he was going for with the Superman mythology in and of itself. When people think of Superman they obviously think of Christopher Reeve and it wouldn't surprise me if they had a meeting and said "We can't have Superman be like that. It's too cheesy and people would laugh at him instead of embracing/appreciating him." I think the problem for WB is the people calling the shots don't understand the characters, nor why Marvel have been so successful. Snyder included. A slightly harder-edged take on Superman could've been great, but as with a lot of the DCEU they went way too far.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 28, 2018 12:21:32 GMT -5
I think Wonder Woman, Lego Batman, and the Nolan Batman movies definitively proved there is no pro-Marvel agenda among critics. It's just that the critical consensus that the other DCEU movies besides WW sucked is because they aren't good movies.
It's funny because for how bad the DC shared movie universe turned out, the DCAU and DCTVU turned out really well, and that's including some of the stinkier seasons of Flash and Arrow.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 28, 2018 12:29:29 GMT -5
I think Wonder Woman, Lego Batman, and the Nolan Batman movies definitively proved there is no pro-Marvel agenda among critics. It's just that the critical consensus that the other DCEU movies besides WW sucked is because they aren't good movies.
It's funny because for how bad the DC shared movie universe turned out, the DCAU and DCTVU turned out really well, and that's including some of the stinkier seasons of Flash and Arrow.
I wasn't too fond of Lego Batman myself. As much as I love the Nolan Batman films they came after the whole Batman and Robin fiasco, plus I think we can agree that if you take Heath Ledger out of the Dark Knight it's nowhere near as great as it is. Plus The Dark Knight Rises, while it is a great film, you can tell Nolan was burnt out given how certain circumstances played out within the confines of the story.
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mcmahonfan85
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Jun 28, 2018 15:42:22 GMT -5
I think Wonder Woman, Lego Batman, and the Nolan Batman movies definitively proved there is no pro-Marvel agenda among critics. It's just that the critical consensus that the other DCEU movies besides WW sucked is because they aren't good movies.
It's funny because for how bad the DC shared movie universe turned out, the DCAU and DCTVU turned out really well, and that's including some of the stinkier seasons of Flash and Arrow.
I wasn't too fond of Lego Batman myself. As much as I love the Nolan Batman films they came after the whole Batman and Robin fiasco, plus I think we can agree that if you take Heath Ledger out of the Dark Knight it's nowhere near as great as it is. Plus The Dark Knight Rises, while it is a great film, you can tell Nolan was burnt out given how certain circumstances played out within the confines of the story. well of course The Dark Knight wouldn't be anywhere near as great. you take out Heather Ledger, the film has no villain. it'd stop right after Batman brought back the guy from China cause there'd be nothing left for him to do.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 28, 2018 16:43:52 GMT -5
Well I don't necessarily blame him 100%. I fully admit I was one of those individuals who felt that critics had a Pro-Marvel agenda and while some critics do have some form of an agenda, it doesn't explain how the WB could screw up this badly as far as their universe is concerned. I am not going to say that Snyder is a misunderstood cinematic and story genius, however, as I said in my previous post, I understand what he was going for with the Superman mythology in and of itself. When people think of Superman they obviously think of Christopher Reeve and it wouldn't surprise me if they had a meeting and said "We can't have Superman be like that. It's too cheesy and people would laugh at him instead of embracing/appreciating him." I think the problem for WB is the people calling the shots don't understand the characters, nor why Marvel have been so successful. Snyder included. A slightly harder-edged take on Superman could've been great, but as with a lot of the DCEU they went way too far. How would you have done Superman in this universe then? Because I honestly feel that the damage has been done and it's hard to right that ship at this moment. He hasn't had a sequel to establish himself as the Beacon of Hope, Man of Tomorrow, or we look at him and see our better selves. So how do you go about it now?
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jun 28, 2018 19:21:04 GMT -5
I wasn't too fond of Lego Batman myself. As much as I love the Nolan Batman films they came after the whole Batman and Robin fiasco, plus I think we can agree that if you take Heath Ledger out of the Dark Knight it's nowhere near as great as it is. Plus The Dark Knight Rises, while it is a great film, you can tell Nolan was burnt out given how certain circumstances played out within the confines of the story. well of course The Dark Knight wouldn't be anywhere near as great. you take out Heather Ledger, the film has no villain. it'd stop right after Batman brought back the guy from China cause there'd be nothing left for him to do. Yeah it's kinda a dumb argument. "Well this movie wouldn't be as good if you took out the best part". No shit, Sherlock.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 29, 2018 1:34:55 GMT -5
well of course The Dark Knight wouldn't be anywhere near as great. you take out Heather Ledger, the film has no villain. it'd stop right after Batman brought back the guy from China cause there'd be nothing left for him to do. Yeah it's kinda a dumb argument. "Well this movie wouldn't be as good if you took out the best part". No shit, Sherlock. It's not really a dumb argument at all. It's just an overall fact. From a storyline perspective it'd be just another good film and not a great one that it ended up being. We saw with The Dark Knight Rises how the series clearly peaked with The Joker.
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Jonathan Michaels
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jun 29, 2018 2:07:25 GMT -5
I remain firm that I want the movies to be better, but I would rather they do their best to keep Affleck and Cavill, though I doubt it happens.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 29, 2018 2:09:08 GMT -5
I remain firm that I want the movies to be better, but I would rather they do their best to keep Affleck and Cavill, though I doubt it happens. At this point I'll believe Affleck is coming back when I see him on set in the suit. Cavill seems to really enjoy himself though, so I don't expect him to go anywhere.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 29, 2018 2:10:24 GMT -5
I remain firm that I want the movies to be better, but I would rather they do their best to keep Affleck and Cavill, though I doubt it happens. Personally, I think Affleck's gone. Since we've gone to... Oh I'm totally starring, writing and directing the batman movie... to I'm writing and Starring... to I'm co-writing and starring... to I'm starring... to... currently not attached. Cavill maybe not. Regardless any problems I've had with the movies and I have a lot... the casting is generally not one of them... (with a few notable exceptions.)
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 29, 2018 2:49:31 GMT -5
The only way the Snyder cut is coming out any time soon is if he has a well regarded blockbuster movie in the next few years that rebuilds his reputation and restores some value to his name. Unfortunately for those who actually want this, his next project is based on Ayn Rand so that's not happening.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 29, 2018 2:52:29 GMT -5
I remain firm that I want the movies to be better, but I would rather they do their best to keep Affleck and Cavill, though I doubt it happens. At this point I'll believe Affleck is coming back when I see him on set in the suit. Cavill seems to really enjoy himself though, so I don't expect him to go anywhere. Affleck isn't getting any younger so the longer this goes on the least likely he is to return. I'd like to believe Affleck when he has said at various events that he won't be going anywhere. But playing Batman is a physical and demanding role and no one can deny father time unfortunately.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 29, 2018 2:58:27 GMT -5
I remain firm that I want the movies to be better, but I would rather they do their best to keep Affleck and Cavill, though I doubt it happens. Personally, I think Affleck's gone. Since we've gone to... Oh I'm totally starring, writing and directing the batman movie... to I'm writing and Starring... to I'm co-writing and starring... to I'm starring... to... currently not attached. Cavill maybe not. Regardless any problems I've had with the movies and I have a lot... the casting is generally not one of them... (with a few notable exceptions.) Cavill, Momoa, Gadot, and Ezra are obviously staying. I said in another post that the longer the wait goes on the least likely Affleck is to return. The four I mentioned have more youth and time on their hands. They can afford to wait a year or two for their respective films where as Affleck is 45 and there's no telling when "The Batman" will be released. It's 2018 and say it comes out in 2020 or 2021 Ben will be 47/48. Only way I feel he is around realistically if it's once again an old grizzled Batman via Dark Knight Returns. I think it's safe to say he's out unless he manages to find the secret fountain of youth somewhere on a mystical island or forest.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jun 29, 2018 4:54:01 GMT -5
Yeah it's kinda a dumb argument. "Well this movie wouldn't be as good if you took out the best part". No shit, Sherlock. It's not really a dumb argument at all. It's just an overall fact. From a storyline perspective it'd be just another good film and not a great one that it ended up being. We saw with The Dark Knight Rises how the series clearly peaked with The Joker. well ok I can see what you mean, but it's all kinda academic, isn't it? I mean, the fact is that he IS in the movie kinda moots it. you should judge a movie for what it is and not what it isn't.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 29, 2018 9:00:45 GMT -5
Casting Old Batman was always a dumb choice made on the edgelord fanboy whim of "WE GOTTA MAKE IT THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS BRO AND BATMAN NEEDS TO MURDER PEOPLE WITH GUNS BROOOOOOOOOO!"
Batman and Superman should be around the same age for a franchise.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 29, 2018 9:16:49 GMT -5
And that would be fine in the hands of a director with the talent to pull it off. Much like George Lucas, Snyder is an excellent visual artist (even if he is too fond of desaturating everything he shoots into oblivion) but he's terrible at just about every other part of the job. Well I don't necessarily blame him 100%. I fully admit I was one of those individuals who felt that critics had a Pro-Marvel agenda and while some critics do have some form of an agenda, it doesn't explain how the WB could screw up this badly as far as their universe is concerned. I am not going to say that Snyder is a misunderstood cinematic and story genius, however, as I said in my previous post, I understand what he was going for with the Superman mythology in and of itself. When people think of Superman they obviously think of Christopher Reeve and it wouldn't surprise me if they had a meeting and said "We can't have Superman be like that. It's too cheesy and people would laugh at him instead of embracing/appreciating him." Given Captain America IS Reeve Superman properly adjusted for a 2000s/2010s movie, not sure if I buy the latter 100%. It CAN be done without totally being grimdark.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 29, 2018 9:51:22 GMT -5
Well I don't necessarily blame him 100%. I fully admit I was one of those individuals who felt that critics had a Pro-Marvel agenda and while some critics do have some form of an agenda, it doesn't explain how the WB could screw up this badly as far as their universe is concerned. I am not going to say that Snyder is a misunderstood cinematic and story genius, however, as I said in my previous post, I understand what he was going for with the Superman mythology in and of itself. When people think of Superman they obviously think of Christopher Reeve and it wouldn't surprise me if they had a meeting and said "We can't have Superman be like that. It's too cheesy and people would laugh at him instead of embracing/appreciating him." Given Captain America IS Reeve Superman properly adjusted for a 2000s/2010s movie, not sure if I buy the latter 100%. It CAN be done without totally being grimdark. Chris Evans' Captain America has met and exceeded Reeve's Superman, in my opinion. That said, Reeve's Superman, at least 1 and 2, should be used as a mold for the DCEU in terms of personifying the character. Different for the sake of being different is not inherently good.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jun 29, 2018 14:01:28 GMT -5
Well I don't necessarily blame him 100%. I fully admit I was one of those individuals who felt that critics had a Pro-Marvel agenda and while some critics do have some form of an agenda, it doesn't explain how the WB could screw up this badly as far as their universe is concerned. I am not going to say that Snyder is a misunderstood cinematic and story genius, however, as I said in my previous post, I understand what he was going for with the Superman mythology in and of itself. When people think of Superman they obviously think of Christopher Reeve and it wouldn't surprise me if they had a meeting and said "We can't have Superman be like that. It's too cheesy and people would laugh at him instead of embracing/appreciating him." Given Captain America IS Reeve Superman properly adjusted for a 2000s/2010s movie, not sure if I buy the latter 100%. It CAN be done without totally being grimdark. But is it a fair comparison though? Captain America for all intents and purposes had very low budget, not well received, and cheesy films before this current depiction. It's not like it had a lot to live up to in terms of its potential in my opinion. So Cap had a much easier time I feel being able to be embraced by fans and the general audience.
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