Kevin Sullivan: People think ROH is uncool

[héad.casé]

"Let me tell you about their talent," Sullivan said of ROH. "I've seen them all in my 40 years. Jay Lethal and Jay Briscoe matches are just as good as Funk and Brisco, Flair and Steamboat. These guys are just superb. They've got some great young talent. Dalton Castle? He's a special talent. They get Cody Rhodes there. He's a special talent and an influx of New Japan guys."

Sullivan praised ROH talent but voiced displeasure how the company is owned by Sinclair Broadcasting. The media empire operates 173 stations throughout 80 markets in the United States and there is little continuity concerning the time ROH airs in each market.

"There's no, 'at 8 p.m. on Thursday, Friday, or Saturday, watch Ring of Honor!' - It is all spread out!"

He also said ROH has no idea what the ratings are for the show either because they're not allowed to see the numbers. This causes a lot of other issues concerning how to book a show because ratings are often a helpful tool in determining what is getting over.

"So, if you and I shoot an angle on segment 2, I can't tell you if that angle got over or not. These people are booking with their hands tied and blindfolded. How can you progress not knowing if you're succeeding or not? The main thing with Sinclair is politics. Wrestling is not a fly on an elephant's ass - It is a nat on the fly on the elephant's ass! I don't know how you can expect these guys doing the writing to know if they are succeeding or not. That tells me they, Sinclair, really don't care. They just need to fill an hour segment or a 2-hour segment."

This year's Supercard Of Honor broke ROH attendance numbers with 6,000, but Sullivan wasn't impressed. He continued saying how ROH only drew the numbers they did because WrestleMania was in town.

"What are they going to do if they're wrestling fans? Of course, you're going to go to the show! They haven't drawn! Are you kidding me? What else would a wrestling fan do?"

All In is getting a lot of attention as they sold out the Sears Center in less than thirty minutes, but ROH couldn't do the same in Chicago. Sullivan then suggested ROH might be losing their cool factor with the audience while using the success of All In as proof.

"I'll give you why and I think this is the definite proof. Last Saturday, Ring of Honor was in Chicago with Cody and all of the boys, right? They drew 1,600 people. All In drew 11,000 people in 29 minutes and 31 seconds. What is wrong with this picture? People look at Ring of Honor and think it is uncool."

www.wrestlingepicenter.com/IWR/

[kingoftheindies]

I think he underplays ROH a bit, but I do think ROH does have a lot of roster issues now and has had that for a awhile. I think the Final Battles always end up good though

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2018 17:25:34 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

This year's Supercard Of Honor broke ROH attendance numbers with 6,000, but Sullivan wasn't impressed. He continued saying how ROH only drew the numbers they did because WrestleMania was in town.

"What are they going to do if they're wrestling fans? Of course, you're going to go to the show! They haven't drawn! Are you kidding me? What else would a wrestling fan do?"

This makes no sense. By that logic, every wrestling show held during Mania weekend would draw tens of thousands of people, because 100,000 are in the area for Mania. Not the case.

All In is getting a lot of attention as they sold out the Sears Center in less than thirty minutes, but ROH couldn't do the same in Chicago. Sullivan then suggested ROH might be losing their cool factor with the audience while using the success of All In as proof.

"I'll give you why and I think this is the definite proof. Last Saturday, Ring of Honor was in Chicago with Cody and all of the boys, right? They drew 1,600 people. All In drew 11,000 people in 29 minutes and 31 seconds. What is wrong with this picture? People look at Ring of Honor and think it is uncool."

Thanks for your input, Kevin. They're doing just fine.

[WWEedy]

Anecdotally I can't really argue with the man. I've been a wrestling fan for about 25 years now and used to follow along with ROH in the early days, even when I stopped watching the product as intently I still always heard about the angles and knew who was champion and who the rising stars from the promotion were. Now I hear next to nothing about ROH and I still frequent wrestling boards and follow wrestling perhaps even moreso than I did back then, especially being a member of Twitter now and how involved Social Media has become with wrestling. That's not to say I don't hear about those who frequent ROH however their names are associated more with other places, which is perhaps not a coolness issue but definitely an exclusivity issue. While the talent that ROH has isn't necessarily poor perhaps they need more of the "cool" wrestlers that come in and out locked down to contracts, if those wrestlers are must watch they need to make people HAVE to see ROH to watch them. Otherwise fans are just going to follow the leader of the pack where these guys are booked and ROH are always going to be seen as the second fiddle to the "place to be."

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2018 18:04:53 GMT -5 WWEedy said:

Anecdotally I can't really argue with the man. I've been a wrestling fan for about 25 years now and used to follow along with ROH in the early days, even when I stopped watching the product as intently I still always heard about the angles and knew who was champion and who the rising stars from the promotion were. Now I hear next to nothing about ROH and I still frequent wrestling boards and follow wrestling perhaps even moreso than I did back then, especially being a member of Twitter now and how involved Social Media has become with wrestling. That's not to say I don't hear about those who frequent ROH however their names are associated more with other places, which is perhaps not a coolness issue but definitely an exclusivity issue. While the talent that ROH has isn't necessarily poor perhaps they need more of the "cool" wrestlers that come in and out locked down to contracts, if those wrestlers are must watch they need to make people HAVE to see ROH to watch them. Otherwise fans are just going to follow the leader of the pack where these guys are booked and ROH are always going to be seen as the second fiddle to the "place to be."

All of that said, the company is also drawing its biggest crowds in the promotion's history, and is being seen by more people than ever before due to having their biggest television clearance ever.

That doesn't mean anything about the "cool" factor, but in terms of business, they're doing better than they ever have.

[cabbageboy]

I think ROH's biggest problem really is having TV that doesn't really mirror the quality of the PPVs or the live experience. ROH's TV is generally not an especially good show, full of marginal talents that feel like guys who would have been on TV during the dying era of ECW. The TV just doesn't entice me to spend any money on their product, yet oddly enough a goofy weekly online show like Being the Elite is far more compelling. It's not that ROH is uncool it's that their cool factor is hampered by mostly "eh" TV. They are like a band that is great live but never puts it together in the studio to produce a great album.

[Crow Dust]

I really can’t argue ROH just feels kinda lame now it feels like TNA did when they became a WWE clone it used to be the place that could boast it had the best talent and in ring wrestling now it just feels like Raw with less time I can honestly say without a doubt I would take back the clone wars with open arms at this point.

[Deleted]

is it really true they're not allowed to see the ratings?

[Deleted]

Hearing how overly positive he was when they employed him This comes across like when Roh was giving him a paycheck they were the best ever super cool now he doesn’t get a paycheck and their uncool but he does make some good points I’d hate to see the state Roh would be in if they had no njpw/bullet club because the roster is very thin otherwise and I can’t remember the last episode of Roh tv I watched because it doesn’t feel important and lacks excitement for the most part it’s here’s some matches in 2018 you need more than that.

[The Heartbreak TWERK]

[Larryhausen]

Jul 1, 2018 23:22:58 GMT -5 The Heartbreak TWERK said:

What's wrong with cooking for food?

[Big DSR Energy]

I don't know how the rest of the world reacts to ROH, but this place was buzzing pretty huge when Austin Aries beat Samoa Joe for the ROH title back at Final Battle 2004. Best in the World is supposed to be one of their biggest shows of the year, and the thread for that and the TV taping the night after went 5 pages.

I still enjoy ROH's in-ring product and I'm glad they're doing well, but it definitely feels like people don't care too much anymore beyond ROH's affiliation with NJPW. Again, that's just the overall vibe I get from threads I read around here.

[El Pollo Guerrera]

I do agree with one point Sullivan made, and that's ROH would benefit greatly from having a solid time slot.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

This is just my opinion but I perceive ROH as the minor leagues and developmental for New Japan. NJPW has all the buzz going ROH doesn't.

[abjordans]

NJPW has the buzz that Sullivan is saying ROH needs. Seems like they should have put the belt back on Cody, Dalton Castle has never seemed to have much going in my opinion.

[chronocross]

Jul 2, 2018 2:15:48 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

I don't know how the rest of the world reacts to ROH, but this place was buzzing pretty huge when Austin Aries beat Samoa Joe for the ROH title back at Final Battle 2004. Best in the World is supposed to be one of their biggest shows of the year, and the thread for that and the TV taping the night after went 5 pages.

I still enjoy ROH's in-ring product and I'm glad they're doing well, but it definitely feels like people don't care too much anymore beyond ROH's affiliation with NJPW. Again, that's just the overall vibe I get from threads I read around here.

Yeah I remember being there live in Philly for Aries finally ending Joe's title reign, it was crazy. I haven't followed ROH as closely as I did back in 04-05, and from the crowds and reports, they're doing very well for themselves, but I have to agree the buzz usually comes from when guys like Cody/Omega are involved, at least that's how it seems to me.

[HMARK Center]

I think ROH got hit particularly badly by the recent WWE expansion with NXT and the indy affiliations: there's a slate of guys out there primarily working EVOLVE and those companies who likely would've been near the top of ROH these past couple of years, but the US terrain is in a lot of flux nowadays. While most big ROH cards still deliver pretty well and while business is solid for them right now, I think some of the guys who might have come in and created a buzz around the industry are now plying their trade around promotions that might get them more direct notice from WWE either because of they're affiliation with them or simply because ROH would likely want them to work under contract.

This is where ROH getting a stronger investment put into it would be pivotal, I think: they're kind of stuck in that middle ground right now where they're big enough to want guys to sign on a dotted line, but they can't compete as easily for the tip-top shelf indy talent out there who likely want to avoid those contracts if it means hurting their WWE chances. Getting more resources pumped into the company would allow them to be a stronger player for those guys and likely generate more of the buzz they had even just a few years ago.

Again, though, I don't want to neglect that they're doing well business-wise right now, so they certainly have a grace period to work with in that regard, but long term I have to imagine it's a major consideration.

[Deleted]

ROH has the bad fortune of having had all of the top talent in the early 00s and no one that they have(that isn’t affiliated with NJPW) is on the level of guys like Bryan, Punk, Joe, AJ, Aries, etc.

They peaked fairly early in their run and while having some good wrestlers, angles, and shows they’re still in the shadow of the glory days. I can’t remember the last time that I actually watched ROH. If they didn’t have the New Japan deal no one would really care IMO. Combine that with the rise of the WWE’s own super Indy NXT and it’s tough.

[HMARK Center]

Jul 2, 2018 14:01:47 GMT -5 @akeemresurrection said:

ROH has the bad fortune of having had all of the top talent in the early 00s and no one that they have(that isn’t affiliated with NJPW) is on the level of guys like Bryan, Punk, Joe, AJ, Aries, etc.

They peaked fairly early in their run and while having some good wrestlers, angles, and shows they’re still in the shadow of the glory days. I can’t remember the last time that I actually watched ROH. If they didn’t have the New Japan deal no one would really care IMO. Combine that with the rise of the WWE’s own super Indy NXT and it’s tough.

Still, the NJPW is only doing so much; they've had a lot of very big cards the past couple of years with minimal NJPW involvement that still drew big, though I could get the argument that many people might have been drawn to ROH via the Bullet Club branding and association. That tells me they'd still be doing pretty good business, regardless, but it's definitely a weird place they find themselves in right now with regards to generating buzz.

[Ganon83]

The explosion of NJPW in America has hurt ROH to an extent.

ROH has some good wrestling, but they definitely feel more like a little brother and would have a bad fall if they were to terminate their relationship with NJPW. Hell, they might be the fourth biggest promotion right now in NA behind WWE, NJPW, and arguably the Elite