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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 12, 2019 1:26:20 GMT -5
They didn’t know. Rian’s said before there was no plan given to him. JJ did JJ in TFA and set up a bunch of open ended mysteries. Rian did Rian in TLJ and subverted a lot of expectations. Trevorrow was set to advance the story WITHOUT Palpatine and whatever that story was, Disney/LF/KK/whoever went NOPE. And here we are. What we were supposed to get in TLJ..is..exactly what we got cause by comments of several of the key figures in this, there’s been no long term plan lol. One thing's for sure, they've emulated Lucas' process of making the OT pretty well. Lucas was flying by the seat of his pants the whole time, only having the barest idea of what he wanted to do for the next movie, and then spending the next 30 years claiming he had everything mapped out from the beginning. Pretty much the same thing has happened with the sequels. J.J. might have had a vision for the entire trilogy (Ridley has claimed he and Kasdan wrote scripts for all three movies), but evidently the powers that be chose to play things by ear. Funnily enough, the one things Johnson gets the most flack for is probably the one thing he followed through on with what J.J. set up - Luke. In Force Awakens we're literally told that Luke felt responsible for the situation the galaxy found itself in and walked away from it all. "Bitter old hermit" is pretty much the only direction you can take with that set up.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Dec 12, 2019 1:34:50 GMT -5
They didn’t know. Rian’s said before there was no plan given to him. JJ did JJ in TFA and set up a bunch of open ended mysteries. Rian did Rian in TLJ and subverted a lot of expectations. Trevorrow was set to advance the story WITHOUT Palpatine and whatever that story was, Disney/LF/KK/whoever went NOPE. And here we are. What we were supposed to get in TLJ..is..exactly what we got cause by comments of several of the key figures in this, there’s been no long term plan lol. One thing's for sure, they've emulated Lucas' process of making the OT pretty well. Lucas was flying by the seat of his pants the whole time, only having the barest idea of what he wanted to do for the next movie, and then spending the next 30 years claiming he had everything mapped out from the beginning. Pretty much the same thing has happened with the sequels. J.J. might have had a vision for the entire trilogy (Ridley has claimed he and Kasdan wrote scripts for all three movies), but evidently the powers that be chose to play things by ear. Funnily enough, the one things Johnson gets the most flack for is probably the one thing he followed through on with what J.J. set up - Luke. In Force Awakens we're literally told that Luke felt responsible for the situation the galaxy found itself in and walked away from it all. "Bitter old hermit" is pretty much the only direction you can take with that set up.Yeah, I ‘spose. And going even further back to the Sony hacks, they did intend for Ep. VII to spotlight Ford, Ep. VIII to spotlight Hamill, and Ep. IX to spotlight Fisher but that bit them in the ass too tragically.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 12, 2019 1:42:44 GMT -5
And going even further back to the Sony hacks, they did intend for Ep. VII to spotlight Ford, Ep. VIII to spotlight Hamill, and Ep. IX to spotlight Fisher but that bit them in the ass too tragically. Yup, which was a fine idea in itself, but I feel like the third movie should've always been Luke's. I get that their hands were tied with Ford and Han was always going to die at the first available opportunity, but it feels like the second movie should've delved into Leia's story as a mother coming to terms with what her son has become.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Dec 12, 2019 2:18:06 GMT -5
And going even further back to the Sony hacks, they did intend for Ep. VII to spotlight Ford, Ep. VIII to spotlight Hamill, and Ep. IX to spotlight Fisher but that bit them in the ass too tragically. Yup, which was a fine idea in itself, but I feel like the third movie should've always been Luke's. I get that their hands were tied with Ford and Han was always going to die at the first available opportunity, but it feels like the second movie should've delved into Leia's story as a mother coming to terms with what her son has become. Without getting into possible spoilers for 9.. in hindsight that would of been cool. In hindsight the three or even just Han and Luke interacting in 7 would of been cool. And in hindsight they probably should of had a more concrete plan as opposed to sort-of-having-a-plan or “calling it by ear”. And I feel this is going to be the huge crux of discussion once this trilogy is wrapped up.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 12, 2019 6:14:10 GMT -5
Yep, it's that last point that really took me out of the experience of the new trilogy; you really can't go into something you fully intend from the get-go to be three movies long and say "go make three movies, but let's not communicate what the overarching story, themes, or development arcs are." Like, I think Rey is a good character and I like Finn, but I'm not invested in what they do right now because there's not much connective tissue for the journeys they should be undergoing over the course of three movies, so I can't really take the whole "this is the end of the saga" stuff seriously when a saga, by definition, is meant to be a series of stories that build off one another (yeah, Empire Strikes Back was pretty separated from the original Star Wars, but at least that was because they didn't know they'd get a sequel, and then they made sure Return of the Jedi was connected to Empire).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 7:37:32 GMT -5
Question for y'all. I've always been under the impression Abrams set up storylines to continue in TLJ, but none of it happened because of Rian Johnson. Any word if that's true and, if so, what we were supposed to get in TLJ? They didn’t know. Rian’s said before there was no plan given to him. JJ did JJ in TFA and set up a bunch of open ended mysteries. Rian did Rian in TLJ and subverted a lot of expectations. Trevorrow was set to advance the story WITHOUT Palpatine and whatever that story was, Disney/LF/KK/whoever went NOPE. And here we are. What we were supposed to get in TLJ..is..exactly what we got cause by comments of several of the key figures in this, there’s been no long term plan lol. I've heard that at some point, Disney decided to not stick to "the plan" as founded by JJ and have everyone do their own thing with each new movie. I think this came out after the Trevorrow firing (he apparently wanted to stick to JJ's plan, Disney disagreed)......but in retrospect, it'd make little sense to fire a guy for wanting continuity and then hire the guy who established the continuity who would of course continue/evolve his original plan. ......oy, just get here, next Friday, I'm prepared to have Star Wars out of my life again and my obsessive collectoritis needs to just see it thru to the end until I can stop.
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Post by thechase on Dec 12, 2019 14:49:16 GMT -5
New promo spot just turned up on reddit, confirms more leaks including that {Spoiler}Palpatine was Snoke all along
We also hear James Earl Jones
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 12, 2019 15:08:34 GMT -5
New promo spot just turned up on reddit, confirms more leaks including that {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Palpatine was Snoke all along
We also hear James Earl Jones It was posted on the Star Wars facebook page Don't watch if you don't want some pretty big details.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 16:22:48 GMT -5
Oh boy that gives me a {Spoiler}Dark Empire vibe and I love that feeling. {Spoiler}Def. JEJ - sounds younger, was "inside your head" an old quote reused for this? Obviously McDiarmid, and....well, they had to aim for 3 for 3 so that had to be Serkis too. Nice.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Dec 12, 2019 19:12:45 GMT -5
New promo spot just turned up on reddit, confirms more leaks including that {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Palpatine was Snoke all along
We also hear James Earl Jones It was posted on the Star Wars facebook page Don't watch if you don't want some pretty big details. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} Oh boy that gives me a {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Dark Empire vibe and I love that feeling. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Def. JEJ - sounds younger, was "inside your head" an old quote reused for this? Obviously McDiarmid, and....well, they had to aim for 3 for 3 so that had to be Serkis too. Nice. {Spoiler} Sounds similar to JEJ in Rogue One. But I agree, sounds better. Younger. Maybe they did ish to it. Oh Serkis. I wonder what the f*** he was told, thinking back on interviews, if anything
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Dec 12, 2019 21:23:10 GMT -5
*Long Beleaguered Sigh* {Spoiler}I just don’t get the point of this apparent Snoke/Palpatine thing. Literally zero build up to any of it. At this point, I’d say Hux would have made a better candidate for a sleeper Sidious host/clone/purple/whatever. I mean, at least Hux is a character that was actually there. All this does is make these movies feel like more of a post-script season than they already do.
That said, I got chills hearing the Sidious Leitmotif again, so that was neat.
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Dec 13, 2019 13:46:01 GMT -5
This has turned from Roman Reigns’ Superman Push to Triplemania levels of “let’s see how bad it can get”
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Dec 13, 2019 15:01:50 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}Am I the old one who sees a statue to Darth Revan in that last clip?
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Post by Cyno on Dec 13, 2019 15:35:28 GMT -5
{Spoiler}This doesn't confirm anything about Snoke being Palpatine the entire time, as Palpatine wasn't even aware Snoke existed until Vader yeeted him down the turbolift shaft in the Death Star throne room. What this suggests to me is that Snoke somewhere along the line became an agent of Palpatine's, and Palpatine was the voice in Ben's head that turn him against the Luke and the Jedi, along with further using Vader's voice to manipulate him.
This could also be why Luke, on instinct, almost killed his nephew. The overwhelming darkness he mistook for Ben's was the really the Emperor's metal claws being dug into him.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Dec 13, 2019 15:39:13 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}This doesn't confirm anything about Snoke being Palpatine the entire time, as Palpatine wasn't even aware Snoke existed until Vader yeeted him down the turbolift shaft in the Death Star throne room. What this suggests to me is that Snoke somewhere along the line became an agent of Palpatine's, and Palpatine was the voice in Ben's head that turn him against the Luke and the Jedi, along with further using Vader's voice to manipulate him.
This could also be why Luke, on instinct, almost killed his nephew. The overwhelming darkness he mistook for Ben's was the really the Emperor's metal claws being dug into him. I really hope this is the case. {Spoiler}Almost making it as the true Big Bad of The Skywalker Saga is The Dark Side, itself
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Post by thechase on Dec 13, 2019 15:40:05 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}This doesn't confirm anything about Snoke being Palpatine the entire time, as Palpatine wasn't even aware Snoke existed until Vader yeeted him down the turbolift shaft in the Death Star throne room. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}What gave you that impression? Expanded universe material?
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Post by Cyno on Dec 13, 2019 16:00:51 GMT -5
{Spoiler}Yes, canon EU material said that Palpatine became aware of Snoke's presence in the Force when he was about to die. I think it was mentioned in Aftermath. The other thing to remember with Snoke is that he's been around in the Unknown Regions for longer than the Empire existed, watching the rise and fall of the Empire from the sidelines. The TLJ novelization also suggested that Snoke became a part of Palpatine's Contingency, as he and his organization helped the nascent First Order navigate the Unknown Regions to the goodies Palpatine left there, like ships, fleet yards, supplies, and weapons to quickly rebuild a power base out of the battered, hardliner Imperial remnant. This would contradict with the thing earlier, but it could be a case of an unreliable narrator.
I imagine Palpatine couldn't reveal himself again so soon. The New Republic didn't take the First Order seriously until it was too late. If Palpatine revealed himself to have been behind it, it would've given the Republic a rallying cry to go to war and crush the FO before it could build itself up to a galactic force. So he had Snoke act in his place as a figurehead leader and intermediary between himself and the rest of the First Order (and the galaxy at large). In this case, using Snoke's voice to get into Ben's head would mean Ben would seek Snoke out instead of inadvertently stumbling upon Palpatine and giving away the long game.
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 15, 2019 15:58:00 GMT -5
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Post by Hurbster on Dec 15, 2019 20:03:12 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed about the First Order. Kylo and Hux spend a lot of time just shouting and screaming. Doesn't compare that well to Tarkin, Vader or Palpatine. But the guy from Rogue One also shouted a lot so maybe it's a modern writing thing.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 15, 2019 20:44:54 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed about the First Order. Kylo and Hux spend a lot of time just shouting and screaming. Doesn't compare that well to Tarkin, Vader or Palpatine. But the guy from Rogue One also shouted a lot so maybe it's a modern writing thing. I like the idea that they're the kids playing fascist dress-up trying to emulate the Empire of old, so they never quite get it right...but again, that's something I would have liked to see developed over the films, and that doesn't really seem to be happening.
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