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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 14, 2018 22:47:22 GMT -5
Character work: 1. Becky 2. Sasha 3. Bayley 4. Charlotte
Becky's proven in the last three months that she's by far and away the best of the bunch in this regard. Sasha and Bayley could easily switch places on the list, because Sasha is a terrible face and Bayley hasn't yet been tried as a heel. I rank Charlotte last as she's pretty one-note as a heel, and deeply unlikeable as a face.
Ring work: 1. Becky 2. Charlotte 3. Bayley 4. Sasha
Becky's not as dynamic in the ring as Charlotte but I think her psychology is far better. Bayley is all steak and no sizzle, while Sasha is all sizzle and no steak. Only time Sasha has ever impressed me in the ring is the NXT matches with Bayley.
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,752
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Post by King Devitt on Nov 14, 2018 22:59:50 GMT -5
Sasha: Best Heel when she's allowed to go full heel. She made that girl mark cry in NXT. amazing.
Bayley: Best pure babyface. Should've been the next Cena, but an even better version b/c she would have been loved by the majority.
Becky: Best badass since Stone Cold. Her promo game on the mic and on Twitter has elevated her to god-tier.
Charlotte: I don't care what anyone says, she has the most emotional range of any woman's wrestler in WWE. And she's carried herself like a star from the get go.
If Sasha and Bayley were booked to their strengths, the women's division would have such a solid foundation right now.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Nov 14, 2018 23:00:01 GMT -5
I feel like Becky and Charlotte have been given this big a platform and have knocked it out of the park every step of the way. But that’s the thing, Smackdown has a clear path to go from point a to point b to point c. The logic might be f***ing Road Dogg stupid, but they’re determined to tell whatever story they’re trying to tell.
Sasha and Bayley had been given a platform as well, but while they didn’t do as well as The Tea Sisters, they did..ok. The problem with them is there is no clear path. There’s no point a to point b to point c, and that’s mostly because there’s no title or stakes involved. And between Alexa Bliss’s never ending push, Nia’s title reign, a now Ronda’s MMA shit..there’s just no room right now for a compelling Sasha/Bayley feud.
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 14, 2018 23:19:57 GMT -5
I can see the Rousey push. I will never understand the Bliss push though. Given her particular slight stature and the way she craps on everyone verbally if you lose a feud to her you're just buried. Bayley was utterly killed by that Alexa feud. Nia mostly beat her up, but lost in the end, yet now we're supposed to care about her getting another title shot? Meh. Sasha ended up jobbing to her. Alexa's initial SD push basically buried Becky for a long, long time until the Charlotte angle this year revived her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 23:37:36 GMT -5
In literally every category.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 14, 2018 23:52:46 GMT -5
If we translated this to 80s Mania Wrestling Returns stats(humor me, I'm hooked on the game and it helps me get my point across), of the four, Charlotte has the highest Skill stat of the four, while Becky has the highest Mic and Pop stats, and overall the highest drawing power stat total.
All four are good, but Becky and Charlotte are definitely the standouts.
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Post by RadcapRadsley on Nov 15, 2018 0:13:57 GMT -5
Bayley: Best pure babyface. Should've been the next Cena I'd say her staying in the back after Riot Squad handed a 3 on 1 beating to Natalya is very Cena like
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
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Post by Shark on Nov 15, 2018 0:17:06 GMT -5
I think it all comes down to what they are given to work with. A year ago, Becky was getting nothing. She was a good hand, could have good matches, but was that girl who could help get over other people. Charlotte has had a rocket strapped to her since the word go. Bayley was having a decent enough run until she ran into the Alexa Bliss wall and has never recovered. Sasha got a good push for a while, but she always came up short in the biggest moments and is seen as a failure. Shoyuweenie made a good point. On Smackdown, it at least feels like the writers give thought to everything, mostly. On Raw, the writers give thought to 2 things and then blindly throw darts at the wall for everything else. Bayley and Sasha this year have "feuded" with each other, but it was always start and stop and never actually led to anything. The pop Bayley got when she attacked Sasha was massive. It felt like the start of a hot angle and they killed it that very show by doing those stupid anger management skits that had zero thought put into them. Alongside that they've feuded with the Riott Squad endlessly all year. I can't even count how many variations of that match we've seen since the Superstar Shakeup. There's no clear direction for it so the fans have checked out. If Bayley and Sasha actually got to do something with some substance behind it, I have little doubt they'd do great with it. I mean, they got bumped from Survivor Series for Tamina and Natalya. Which, frankly might be a blessing because that match will likely be terrible.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 15, 2018 0:36:06 GMT -5
I prefer Becky and Charlotte and have always been more invested in their story as apposed to Sasha and Bayley's. Becky and Charlotte come off more like adult women with issues you can relate to while Sasha and Bayley come off more like two immature high school girls with their never ending love-hate relationship. Both Sasha and Bayley can also have almost cringeworthy delivery in promos/segments and that leads to even more of disconnect for me personally. They're all great in the ring the big difference is Becky and Charlotte are way better at talking and acting which makes their promos and backstage segmnts way better and that as a result makes it easier to invest in their feud/storyline. I've never rated Charlotte highly as a talker but she's decent enough and I would say she's definitely better then both Sasha and Bayley.
I think Sasha and Bayley could both improve but I think it's going to need change in character direction for both. Sasha would be better off as a heel as everyone says as that's a more natural role of her. Bayley just needs a complete repackaging with a new look and character all together. I get that kids like her but I've never been a fan of her gimmick and it's now even more ridiculous considering she's close to 30. I think a change could maybe bring more out of her as a performer that maybe we haven't seen out of her before her. Maybe it won't and she just isn't good enough but either way it won't hurt to at least try.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 15, 2018 6:12:43 GMT -5
All four are fantastic talents.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Nov 15, 2018 10:17:29 GMT -5
Yes. Sasha and Bayley have been left way behind unfortunately. Neither have delivered on any level in years. It sucks because I loved these two for their NXT work but they just haven't made the transition for whatever reason. What you mean years....there was that Ironwoman match in NXT... MORE THAN THREE YEARS AGO?!?!
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 15, 2018 11:06:16 GMT -5
On a related point, I wonder why Sasha and Bayley thought doing that apron Bayley-to-Belly spot on Raw was a good idea when their match was going to be a no contest, and it was inevitably going to be overshadowed by what happened next anyway.
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Post by Andy Martin on Nov 15, 2018 11:21:40 GMT -5
Becky Sasha Charlotte Bayley The gap back to Bayley needs to be bigger.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 15, 2018 12:36:34 GMT -5
Right now, yeah.
Bayley's been severely hampered by rough booking, but even before the Alexa Bliss feud that kind of got that ball rolling, she was starting to struggle. Her match quality started to drop off (including some of the most glaring botched spots out of anyone on the roster at that time) and her character was not being treated with the care that it needed to succeed. Like, you have to be extremely careful in what you write Bayley to say and what you write others to say about Bayley, because one slip-up later and this legit competitor with a colourful aesthetic becomes "actual 10 year old girl" and "female Eugene". So, out of the four, I think Bayley at this point may be the worst wrestler and only barely a better promo than current face Banks. And I also think that of all the NXT call-ups WWE haven't quite got the grips of, it's those who went through major high-quality character arcs and storylines in NXT like Bayley who have arguably struggled the most (see also American Alpha and Asuka). That said, I've never gotten the impression from Bayley that she's half-assing any of this, unlike what can happen with Banks at times.
Banks has the potential to be the best wrestler and the best character of the four of them when booking lines up the right way, but right now it isn't at all. Banks may be the most miscast character on the whole roster when it comes to the face/heel alignment and probably the most insincere as a result. And she's also the most prone to letting her booking affect the quality of her work (she has one of the most obvious "I'm dropping the belt" mopeyfaces in the history of the sport), so naturally with nothing to sink her teeth into right now, the in-ring work has dropped off a bit. I'd put her third in ring work ahead of Bayley but behind her in promos.
Flair has obviously been the most consistently pushed out of the four, but it's not without a reasonable basis. For someone who has only been broken in by the WWE system, her in-ring work is very good, but with a large window between her best work and her worst work so she can be a bit inconsistent. As it pertains to her promos and her character, I'd say that for a long time she'd struggled to literally find the right voice for her promos with some modulation and syllable emphasis issues, as both a face and a heel, and it was only with the Lynch feud this year that she kind of got that under control. Character-wise, it's hard to say what she's more suited to being. Her family name and heritage seems to indicate she'd be better off as a heel, and many fans lean that way based largely on her booking and her success, but she was doing reasonably well as a babyface up until she returned from her minor surgeries to kick off the angle with Lynch, which made her come off as unfairly unsympathetic. That said, when she's been out of Lynch's orbit doing the Mixed Match Challenge, she's still been getting those face pops. Right now, maybe the best wrestler of the four and the second best promo.
Lynch... My goodness. This is something you rarely see in wrestling, someone catching THAT much fire and becoming the talk of the entire damn sport. Lynch, the most experienced of the four, has probably been the most consistent wrestler of the group, but has never been the outright best, and probably never really been in the conversation for it until this year. But where Lynch is killing it right now is promos and character work. She has always been a decent promo, and people loved the goofy babyface act with all her dorkiness and struggles with cans of pineapple slices, but since the heel turn at SummerSlam, it's just gone to another level. WWE could have easily continued to force Lynch to dismiss the fan support she was still getting, but thankfully they eased back on that after the first promo, and also thankfully, weirdly enough, they stayed their course and allowed Lynch's new character to develop in that slightly different direction, and that combined with some strong booking when she needed it, has put Lynch right over the top. All most wanted from Lynch was for her to get a damn chance, and now circumstances have lined up in such a weird way that she's staring down the barrel at possibly MAIN EVENTING A F***ING WRESTLEMANIA. I just don't know how anyone could want Lynch to go back to puns and quinoa references after seeing this run she's on. Second best for wrestling, leading by the length of the straight almost for promos.
TL;DR Wrestling: Flair, Lynch, Banks, Bayley Character/Promos: Lynch, Flair, Bayley, Banks
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Nov 15, 2018 12:38:04 GMT -5
Yes. Sasha and Bayley have been left way behind unfortunately. Neither have delivered on any level in years. It sucks because I loved these two for their NXT work but they just haven't made the transition for whatever reason. What you mean years....there was that Ironwoman match in NXT... MORE THAN THREE YEARS AGO?!?! I had the same reaction when I looked up the date to make sure I wasn't over exaggerating the time.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Nov 15, 2018 14:16:42 GMT -5
On a related point, I wonder why Sasha and Bayley thought doing that apron Bayley-to-Belly spot on Raw was a good idea when their match was going to be a no contest, and it was inevitably going to be overshadowed by what happened next anyway. I feel like that was more the agent thought it was a good idea..but I also feel like this ties into why Sasha doesn’t get pushed as much as she does. I feel like she has this mindset of “if i kill myself out here with these cool moves, they’ll have to push me”, when the moves you do has really jackshit to do with your push in the WWE.
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Post by lavelleuk on Nov 15, 2018 14:35:15 GMT -5
Just my random opinions, I should say though I don't really watch wrestling anymore.
Becky has always been my favourite in the ring, but NXT Bayley I loved. I thought she'd be a massive star, and genuinly believe WWE are 100% to fault for her not being one.
Sasha I have never liked, everything about her is like a teenager playing wrestler, I can't get lost in anything she does as it looks and feels like terrible acting, whether face or heel or being "the boss" I have never enjoyed watching her. The fact she always looks like she'll die in her matches doesn't help
Charlotte I watch her matches and understand they're technically good, but I don't care about her. Again, as a heel she seems forced and as a face she's more natural but also quite boring. She seems like in real life she'd be a very nice person, but that doesn't make me want to watch her pretend to beat people up.
Current Becky....She's the only thing I've watched in 6 months because it's fantastic the reactions she's getting. While I don't enjoy her promos as much as others her swagger just feels legit and the Raw segment was one of the best things I've seen in years (although as I've pointed out I don't really watch much)
For me Becky should be the biggest badass female wrestler alive and Bayley should be the biggest pure babyface potentially in the company, I'm glad at least one of them is getting the chance to show what they can do
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 15, 2018 16:45:24 GMT -5
We can never tell, because there's such a mismatch between character and wrestling for all of them.
Sasha's an underdog face. Look at her body type, and look at how well she bumps and sells. Making her cocky is bewildering.
Bayley's the least impressive wrestler of all of them, but she's certainly solid.... but she has a little kid character, and her wrestling style is the most 'brawly' of all of them! The bookers are just bizarrely obsessed with whether or not she has "killer instinct" and it's not clear to me why she would even need 'killer instinct' to hold someone to the ground for three seconds. But they won't resolve that and just make an in-character bridge to her wrestling style, already.
Charlotte is fantastic in the ring; I think she's the single best wrestler on the entire roster, actually. But she's a heel. She will always just be a heel. She isn't even bad at being a face, but: She is a heel.
Becky as goofy nerd-crush did not match her submission machine in-ring persona (her dearth of submission moves also didn't match that). She's a pretty good wrestler (though her moveset seems kinda slim), but if she wants to be Dean Malenko, she needs to connect it to her out of ring persona.
These are all fixable problems, but there appears to be very little desire to fix them, at least for Bayley and Sasha.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 16:53:37 GMT -5
Charlotte is fantastic in the ring; I think she's the single best wrestler on the entire roster, actually. But she's a heel. She will always just be a heel. She isn't even bad at being a face, but: She is a heel. You'd put her over Styles, Cien, and Bryan? I think she's probably the best of the women, but too sloppy at times for me to put her in that top tier.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
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Post by FinalGwen on Nov 15, 2018 16:55:38 GMT -5
Becky was still somewhat of a blank slate when she first came onto the main roster. Sure she'd gone from Irish dancing to generic heel to Steampunk enthusiast, but when you compare it to the emotional journey that the others had, I think it's actually benefited her to be able to go on that journey with the biggest possible audience and in a way that's felt very fluid.
Meanwhile, Bayley had her entire evolution on NXT. And it meant some truly awesome NXT tv, but she came to the main roster fully formed, without that same fluidity. She hasn't been able to move on from what she entered as in the same way, especially since they seemed to keep putting off what few logical character steps they could take with her.
It doesn't necessarily mean that one is better than the other, but that timing worked out for them in different ways.
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