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Post by The Barber on Nov 27, 2018 7:14:00 GMT -5
When they become parodies of themselves, basically.
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Post by willywonka666 on Nov 27, 2018 8:34:00 GMT -5
We want perfection-to stop a story when it makes its point, but just because one set of people thinks it should end, there are a ton that aren't critics and don't care so much as long as they are in a world where the films are still being made and stay in their consciousness.
For me and some tv shows, as far as I'm concerned they stopped existing after I personally feel the show went to hell. As far as I'm concerned, Married with Children lasted 5 seasons-you couldn't pay me to watch it after that anymore, but a lot of audiences loved those last few seasons and that's fine with me, but I'm not messing with it.
Same goes for movies-I don't care they didn't cancel it sooner, but I don't have to support it.
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 27, 2018 9:05:34 GMT -5
Citizens on Patrol is awesome. Mission to Moscow had no business being made. It's hilarious looking at the OP that Fast and Furious has had too many movies while "Star Wars is good." Fast Five through Fate of the Furious have all been rollicking action flicks, while Star Wars seems like a franchise running on fumes that has no decent original ideas. It's not a mystery as to why places like China have utterly rejected these new Star Wars movies. They have no previous nostalgia for the series, so the new ones have to stand on their own merit. And frankly they have very little merit.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 27, 2018 10:28:38 GMT -5
Basic formula
- does franchise star Stallone or Schwarzenegger?
Answer = yes, then not enough Answer = no, then too many
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Nov 27, 2018 10:47:29 GMT -5
Citizens on Patrol is awesome. Mission to Moscow had no business being made. It's hilarious looking at the OP that Fast and Furious has had too many movies while "Star Wars is good." Fast Five through Fate of the Furious have all been rollicking action flicks, while Star Wars seems like a franchise running on fumes that has no decent original ideas. It's not a mystery as to why places like China have utterly rejected these new Star Wars movies. They have no previous nostalgia for the series, so the new ones have to stand on their own merit. And frankly they have very little merit. You might want to re-read my post to see the point I made. I said that SOMEONE ELSE tried to make an argument of how "Star Wars is good" in that it is justified to have a lot of movies. I like the Fast & Furious franchise a lot. I was just saying how a lot of people complain about how there are too many movies and should not have gone this far. I am actually looking forward to the Hobbs and Shaw spinoff, as well as 9 and 10.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 27, 2018 11:04:16 GMT -5
Citizens on Patrol is awesome. Mission to Moscow had no business being made. It's hilarious looking at the OP that Fast and Furious has had too many movies while "Star Wars is good." Fast Five through Fate of the Furious have all been rollicking action flicks, while Star Wars seems like a franchise running on fumes that has no decent original ideas. It's not a mystery as to why places like China have utterly rejected these new Star Wars movies. They have no previous nostalgia for the series, so the new ones have to stand on their own merit. And frankly they have very little merit. You might want to re-read my post to see the point I made. I said that SOMEONE ELSE tried to make an argument of how "Star Wars is good" in that it is justified to have a lot of movies. I like the Fast & Furious franchise a lot. I was just saying how a lot of people complain about how there are too many movies and should not have gone this far. I am actually looking forward to the Hobbs and Shaw spinoff, as well as 9 and 10. Fast and Furious isn’t the same from when it started tho. So while yes their may be 8 or 9 movies, they switched the formula I believe at the 5th movie to make this more a heist type of franchise
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 27, 2018 11:07:06 GMT -5
I think if something is stale it's time to stop. With F & F there was a long downtime between stuff people actually saw (Tokyo Drift was barely related and not a big hit). So when Fast and Furious was released in 2009 it felt fresh again, then in Five they added The Rock, then Statham joined, etc. They do things to keep it fresh. But yeah I know you meant someone else.
Speaking of Star Wars Episode IX, I think that movie is in serious trouble. If that movie follows the same trajectory as Last Jedi and Solo it might be ugly. There's no Han, no Luke (well maybe a force ghost), deleted Leia scenes thrown in, and the newer characters aren't over. Ep. IX will probably do fine domestically but looking at the international numbers it'll crater and be lucky to break even.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 27, 2018 11:18:05 GMT -5
Citizens on Patrol is awesome. Mission to Moscow had no business being made. It's hilarious looking at the OP that Fast and Furious has had too many movies while "Star Wars is good." Fast Five through Fate of the Furious have all been rollicking action flicks, while Star Wars seems like a franchise running on fumes that has no decent original ideas. It's not a mystery as to why places like China have utterly rejected these new Star Wars movies. They have no previous nostalgia for the series, so the new ones have to stand on their own merit. And frankly they have very little merit. To be fair, China is the only market that rejected Star Wars, and while a lack of nostalgia is definitely a big part of that, a case can be made that trying to make money from a market that is largely ignorant of the previous six movies while making the new movies heavily reliant on knowing the backstory of those six movies is a bigger factor. The Ex-File 3: The Return of the Exes beat The Last Jedi in the Chinese box office and is the 14th highest grossing Chinese film of all time. Imagine if a fourth movie were to be released in the U.S., expecting its audience to be familiar with the other three movies; it would bomb, regardless of whether it stands on its own merit or not. Star Wars isn't going to make any significant money in China until it moves far away from the established universe. Rian Johnson's post-Skywalker trilogy may be the best chance they have to do that.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Nov 27, 2018 11:26:13 GMT -5
I think if something is stale it's time to stop. With F & F there was a long downtime between stuff people actually saw (Tokyo Drift was barely related and not a big hit). So when Fast and Furious was released in 2009 it felt fresh again, then in Five they added The Rock, then Statham joined, etc. They do things to keep it fresh. But yeah I know you meant someone else. Speaking of Star Wars Episode IX, I think that movie is in serious trouble. If that movie follows the same trajectory as Last Jedi and Solo it might be ugly. There's no Han, no Luke (well maybe a force ghost), deleted Leia scenes thrown in, and the newer characters aren't over. Ep. IX will probably do fine domestically but looking at the international numbers it'll crater and be lucky to break even. This is my personal red flag for new Star Wars: it's Music The first two trilogies are full of highly memorable and iconic works of art. People that have never even seen Star Wars understand the Imperial March is evil. Binary Sunset speaks for itself. Coronation March, the Cantina Band and even the old Yub Nub. Then you had a masterpiece of Across the Stars and Duel of the Fates in the prequels. The trickery with the Naboo Celebration Music being the Emperorer's Theme on crack. The CIS march transitioning to the Imperial March is epic. The new trilogy? The only music I can even recall is like 2 bars of Rey's theme and The Jedi Steps. Everything else is either generic sounding or is a remix of old themes from previous movies. It's been said the best music in the Force Awakens was in it's trailer, and that's just a remix of the Han and Leia theme.
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 27, 2018 11:36:23 GMT -5
Oh I didn't just mean China. Solo's performance in China was almost amazingly awful (16 million???) but Last Jedi cratered as well with 42 million. Last Jedi was down in a lot of other markets as well. But if you check out Deadline's numbers here The Last Jedi was in fact 2017's most profitable film with over 400 million in profit. It made over 1.3 billion, which was way down from The Force Awakens doing over 2 billion, so another downward trend might put Ep. 9 in the red. I wonder just how much Solo lost at the box office but with about 393 million worldwide on a budget of somewhere between 250-300 million (not including marketing, prints, etc.) this is a fiasco. Solo domestically did basically the same as Venom but Venom has been a huge hit overseas to the tune of 822 million worldwide so far. Marvel has films that aren't especially established but do fine in places like China. Ant-Man did 105 million in China and the sequel this year did 121 million. You don't want to go way down with your overseas numbers with a sequel. You want to make more. Force Awakens did 124 million in China, a solid beginning. But Last Jedi crashed to 42 million when in theory they should want 142 million to improve. Brazil is another country, not as big of a deal as China, but the new Star Wars has been totally rejected. TFA did 27 million there, but TLJ only did 19. Solo did an almost shockingly terrible 3.6 million there.
My point is this: These new Star Wars movies aren't exactly winning over a legion of new fans worldwide. Solo's 213 million domestic isn't really that bad. It's on par with the last Mission Impossible, Ant-Man and the Wasp, or Venom. But the international numbers were utterly horrid and a serious cause for concern.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 11:41:34 GMT -5
The Land Before Time. One great movie, thirteen sequels that nobody can remember. Spanning almost thirty years. That is absurd. Heh, was coming in here to say Land Before Time. And can you believe there was a TV series amidst all those? And for some reason, it happened in 2007 - which was in between (to date) the last 2 movies of the series, which themselves were 9 years apart. Absurd, yet bloody fascinating in a way.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 27, 2018 12:03:09 GMT -5
When the chemistry dies. I could have watched endless Lethal Weapon films with Gibson and Glover so long as their chemistry was intact. Ditto with Dark Knight movies featuring the Bale/Caine/Oldman trio. What I can't stand is when you get a bunch of sequels where the actors have none of their original chemistry because they'd clearly rather be anywhere else.
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Post by paulbearer on Nov 27, 2018 13:43:36 GMT -5
Both PA5 & PA6 are underrated , the mystery boss and his gang in #6
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Post by Main Eventer on Nov 27, 2018 14:00:35 GMT -5
When they stopped actually numbering it and just put a tag line as the second title.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Nov 27, 2018 14:03:27 GMT -5
No real answer besides the logistical monetary one.
Franchises like Fast and Furious and Mission Impossible came back from 2F2F and M:I 2 respectively (neither were failures either for that matter). Especially for the last decade, this is just the cinematic world we live in. People aren't going to the movies. Studios are naturally relentless when it comes properties that have succeeded at a time.
The franchises I would say at least felt to be slogging recently are Pirates & Transformers. But again, Dead Men Tell No Tales wasn't what they wanted, but it wasn't a huge failure either. And who knows what the reboot will entail. Also, Bumblebee is getting a lot of positive traction, which goes to show all it takes is a refreshing twist to reinvigorate a franchise. And if rumors are believed, they have like 12 other Transformers films planned.
Another that might be finding itself in this position is this Fantastic Beasts shit. First was a moderate hit. Second is way more polarizing. But there's still money to be made from Harry Potters stale corpse. Don't be surprised if they take a drastic turn for the next installment.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 27, 2018 14:23:21 GMT -5
No real answer besides the logistical monetary one. Franchises like Fast and Furious and Mission Impossible came back from 2F2F and M:I 2 respectively (neither were failures either for that matter). Especially for the last decade, this is just the cinematic world we live in. People aren't going to the movies. Studios are naturally relentless when it comes properties that have succeeded at a time. That really is it. Streaming, piracy, and unstable economies have kept people at home, and Hollywood is turning every trick it can to keep making money. Something makes a pile of money? Sequelise it. It's not suitable to be sequelised? Shoehorn its name onto something else and call it a prequel, spinoff, or reboot. Something was a hit several decades ago? Remake it. Something was a hit in the last decade or two? Bring the cast back, even if they've not been relevant in years and hope to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Got a bankable star or director? Offer them as much as possible to get them making more movies, faster, and preferably involve them in one of the above categories. Also, remember how studios would wait 6-9 months after theatrical runs ended before they'd throw their movies into the home video maket? Now movies regularly are available to buy in a couple of months. While I can see the logic of getting it to market while the hype is still up, I kinda feel it also hurts box office, because it makes it much easier to make the "I'll wait for it to hit Netflix" decision.
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 27, 2018 14:44:50 GMT -5
For what it's worth I think M:I:2 is kinda underrated. I crapped on it for years but watching the series again this year before Fallout I quite enjoyed it. Ambrose was a better written villain than I remembered and the plot wasn't as hokey as I remembered either. Either way I dunno what there would be to come back from. It was the top grossing movie of 2000 worldwide. And for what it's worth 2F2F I think outgrossed the original worldwide by a little. If anything the better received M:I:3 was a dip in the franchise box office wise, coming out at the peak of "Cruise is insane."
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Post by James Fabiano on Nov 27, 2018 14:50:32 GMT -5
Transformers all day! Though Bumblebee may save the reputation....
Name almost any horror movie from the 80s.
Howling shouldn't have gone beyond part one. And this will be controversial, but neither should have Austin Powers. All the sequels were caricatures of what the first movie did. Iron Man similarly went down with the first sequel, and is the one arm of the MCU (IMO) that never rebounded.
Thanks for the Land Before Time obvious answer. American Pie went this way too.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Nov 27, 2018 15:49:44 GMT -5
The Land Before Time. One great movie, thirteen sequels that nobody can remember. Spanning almost thirty years. That is absurd. I was just about to say this as well. The Original? A Classic Masterpiece. The rest? Not so much.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Nov 27, 2018 15:58:26 GMT -5
For what it's worth I think M:I:2 is kinda underrated. I crapped on it for years but watching the series again this year before Fallout I quite enjoyed it. Ambrose was a better written villain than I remembered and the plot wasn't as hokey as I remembered either. Either way I dunno what there would be to come back from. It was the top grossing movie of 2000 worldwide. And for what it's worth 2F2F I think outgrossed the original worldwide by a little. If anything the better received M:I:3 was a dip in the franchise box office wise, coming out at the peak of "Cruise is insane." I also grew to appreciate M:I 2 as I got older. Still don't like Thandie Newton's character. It came out when I was seventeen, and I thought it was just unnecessarily complicated compared to the first movie, which I really liked at thirteen. I still think of this movie as the one that f***ed Dougray Scott out of being Wolverine. Haha. I wonder how he feels about it.
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