The weird undercard of Survivor Series 93

[Zen411]

Survivor Series 93 had some weird booking. Particularly the harts vs knights match and doinks match.

Not sure why bret was being positioned for a feud with Owen when Owen was in the dark match at summerslam and facing skinner at wm8. Plus tack on two hart brothers who had never been seen in wwe before or since (at least as wrestlers). Why did they wrestle faceless generic knights played by over the hill guys like valentine and jobbers like Horowitz and Jeff gaylord. They couldn't get relevant wrestlers to form a team? I never got the appeal of generic masked guys in a main match.

The doinks match. A match built around doink didn't even feature the actual doink. Men on a mission and bushwackers with doink wigs and facepaint acting goofy with props in the ring. The only doink appearance was via the video screen at the end. Crowd chanted we want doink during the match. Who thought this was the best course of action? Vince? Get it? Four doinks??? Ha ha ha ha ha!!

[illiniman88]

93 was a bad period

[Deleted]

The concept is a shitshow really. In 1987 when the main aim was to put on a show that was enticing enough for people to watch but not give them what they could see at house shows it made sense. By 1993 it just led to filler matches where feuds were neither started, furthered or ended. I don't get the love for those 5 on 5/4 on 4 matches. Watching guys get pinned after a hip-toss or a simple scoop slam because they had to have a minimum of 4 finishes per match also was tiresome.

From that original era the only thing of note I remember happening at a Survivor Series was what happened between Hogan and Savage in 1988. Other than that for the first incarnation if really became known as the PPV where absolutely nothing of note ever happened. And it was designed that way. 

[jason1980s]

The roster had thinned so much by the PPV that a match with 5 non-roster members was probably the only thing they could do in the Harts and Knights match. 1994 and 1995 were similar in having the mini Clowns and Kings and the women wrestlers. In 1993, who could have been on a Bret and Owen team? Virgil and Bob Backlund on one side and maybe the Knights on the other side. With Virgil and Backlund being on the lower end of the card, it really wouldn't make sense. The Hart family involvement also allowed for more of a storyline (Owen was the only non-surviving family member) and helped ignite the fued. A lot of time had passed since Owen wrestled Skinner and with so much emphasis on the Bret and King match in Summerslam, Owen was needed on the outside for support rather than have his own PPV match.

[bob]

Didn't the 1993 card get drastically changed cuz Lawler was arrested?

[jason1980s]

Jan 1, 2019 14:33:02 GMT -5 bob said:

Didn't the 1993 card get drastically changed cuz Lawler was arrested?

At least Shawn Michaels was available and there was somewhat of an issue with them (1992 Survivor Series) but the storyline had to call for some made up mockery of the Hart Family.
I wonder if he hadn't been on the roster and Jerry Lawler was out. I guess they would have hot shotted Owen as the captain againt Bret's team somehow but it would take a month or so of buildup for the match.

[Milkman Norm]

Jan 1, 2019 12:07:23 GMT -5 Zen411 said:

Survivor Series 93 had some weird booking. Particularly the harts vs knights match and doinks match.

Not sure why bret was being positioned for a feud with Owen when Owen was in the dark match at summerslam and facing skinner at wm8. Plus tack on two hart brothers who had never been seen in wwe before or since (at least as wrestlers). Why did they wrestle faceless generic knights played by over the hill guys like valentine and jobbers like Horowitz and Jeff gaylord. They couldn't get relevant wrestlers to form a team? I never got the appeal of generic masked guys in a main match.

The doinks match. A match built around doink didn't even feature the actual doink. Men on a mission and bushwackers with doink wigs and facepaint acting goofy with props in the ring. The only doink appearance was via the video screen at the end. Crowd chanted we want doink during the match. Who thought this was the best course of action? Vince? Get it? Four doinks??? Ha ha ha ha ha!!

1. Bruce Hart pitched the idea of a program with Bret. Bret liked it but thought that would better to feature Owen in it as Owen was younger, a better wrestler, and on the roster full time. The initial idea had Bruce as the bullying older brother and then Bret and Bruce Prichard (via STWW) changed it to the annoying cocky little brother vs the babyface older brother.

1a. The idea was the Hart Brothers vs Lawler due to the way Lawler had insulted the family. While Bruce and Keith had never been in WWE (or at least hadn't in a long time) even at the time I knew that the Hart's were all or had all been wrestlers.

2. Once Lawler got into legal trouble the whole match was shot but saying it was a featured match and where Owen's heel turn was starting they did the best thing they could do. They took a top talent not on the card and put him in the match. As for the knights again according to Prichard the original idea was to use guys under the mask that had ties to Lawler in the past (Terry Funk) for one. After Funk went home the office just said F it and got through the match.

3. It sucked. I imagine the original idea was Matt Bourne Doink, Steve Keirn Doink, et. al vs Bam Bam and his team. But when Bourne left the whole thing was iced and turned into the match we got.

So the long and short of it was it sucked. But some of the sucking wasn't entirely their fault.

[Citizen Snips Has Left]

Jan 1, 2019 13:25:13 GMT -5 @thehairydrunk said:

From that original era the only thing of note I remember happening at a Survivor Series was what happened between Hogan and Savage in 1988. Other than that for the first incarnation if really became known as the PPV where absolutely nothing of note ever happened. And it was designed that way. 

Undertaker made his debut in 1990 and won the WWF Title in 1991

[wildojinx]

Jan 1, 2019 13:25:13 GMT -5 @thehairydrunk said:

The concept is a shitshow really. In 1987 when the main aim was to put on a show that was enticing enough for people to watch but not give them what they could see at house shows it made sense. By 1993 it just led to filler matches where feuds were neither started, furthered or ended. I don't get the love for those 5 on 5/4 on 4 matches. Watching guys get pinned after a hip-toss or a simple scoop slam because they had to have a minimum of 4 finishes per match also was tiresome.

From that original era the only thing of note I remember happening at a Survivor Series was what happened between Hogan and Savage in 1988. Other than that for the first incarnation if really became known as the PPV where absolutely nothing of note ever happened. And it was designed that way. 

Except for the debut of a little guy known as The Undertaker. And I like the concept of the elimination matches, it's not something that was commonplace at the time, and even now it's not like you see it on every show, unlike say, cage matches.

[Deleted]

Jan 1, 2019 16:34:20 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Jan 1, 2019 13:25:13 GMT -5 @thehairydrunk said:

The concept is a shitshow really. In 1987 when the main aim was to put on a show that was enticing enough for people to watch but not give them what they could see at house shows it made sense. By 1993 it just led to filler matches where feuds were neither started, furthered or ended. I don't get the love for those 5 on 5/4 on 4 matches. Watching guys get pinned after a hip-toss or a simple scoop slam because they had to have a minimum of 4 finishes per match also was tiresome.

From that original era the only thing of note I remember happening at a Survivor Series was what happened between Hogan and Savage in 1988. Other than that for the first incarnation if really became known as the PPV where absolutely nothing of note ever happened. And it was designed that way. 

Except for the debut of a little guy known as The Undertaker. And I like the concept of the elimination matches, it's not something that was commonplace at the time, and even now it's not like you see it on every show, unlike say, cage matches.

Nothing to do with it. It was a show he happened to debut on. It wasn't particularly note worthy at the time any more than any of debut. He didn't debut as someone who in 20 years time would be considered one of the all time wrestling icons. Nobody left the arena thinking "This guys undefeated streak at WM for the next 23 years is going to be amazing!"

[johnnytightlips]

Jan 1, 2019 12:07:23 GMT -5 Zen411 said:

Survivor Series 93 had some weird booking. Particularly the harts vs knights match and doinks match.

Not sure why bret was being positioned for a feud with Owen when Owen was in the dark match at summerslam and facing skinner at wm8. Plus tack on two hart brothers who had never been seen in wwe before or since (at least as wrestlers). Why did they wrestle faceless generic knights played by over the hill guys like valentine and jobbers like Horowitz and Jeff gaylord. They couldn't get relevant wrestlers to form a team? I never got the appeal of generic masked guys in a main match.

The doinks match. A match built around doink didn't even feature the actual doink. Men on a mission and bushwackers with doink wigs and facepaint acting goofy with props in the ring. The only doink appearance was via the video screen at the end. Crowd chanted we want doink during the match. Who thought this was the best course of action? Vince? Get it? Four doinks??? Ha ha ha ha ha!!

Bruce & Conrad did an episode covering this event in November, should still be on Youtube.
(would provide a link, just not sure if it violates any forum rules)

[illiniman88]

The Razor/Dibase match was so rushed there was no set up really

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 1, 2019 18:28:20 GMT -5 illiniman88 said:

The Razor/Dibase match was so rushed there was no set up really

That was SummerSlam 93.

[illiniman88]

Jan 1, 2019 19:05:57 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Jan 1, 2019 18:28:20 GMT -5 illiniman88 said:

The Razor/Dibase match was so rushed there was no set up really

That was SummerSlam 93.

You're right my bad

[MolotovMocktail]

Jan 1, 2019 16:33:16 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

Jan 1, 2019 12:07:23 GMT -5 Zen411 said:

Survivor Series 93 had some weird booking. Particularly the harts vs knights match and doinks match.

Not sure why bret was being positioned for a feud with Owen when Owen was in the dark match at summerslam and facing skinner at wm8. Plus tack on two hart brothers who had never been seen in wwe before or since (at least as wrestlers). Why did they wrestle faceless generic knights played by over the hill guys like valentine and jobbers like Horowitz and Jeff gaylord. They couldn't get relevant wrestlers to form a team? I never got the appeal of generic masked guys in a main match.

The doinks match. A match built around doink didn't even feature the actual doink. Men on a mission and bushwackers with doink wigs and facepaint acting goofy with props in the ring. The only doink appearance was via the video screen at the end. Crowd chanted we want doink during the match. Who thought this was the best course of action? Vince? Get it? Four doinks??? Ha ha ha ha ha!!

1. Bruce Hart pitched the idea of a program with Bret. Bret liked it but thought that would better to feature Owen in it as Owen was younger, a better wrestler, and on the roster full time. The initial idea had Bruce as the bullying older brother and then Bret and Bruce Prichard (via STWW) changed it to the annoying cocky little brother vs the babyface older brother.

1a. The idea was the Hart Brothers vs Lawler due to the way Lawler had insulted the family. While Bruce and Keith had never been in WWE (or at least hadn't in a long time) even at the time I knew that the Hart's were all or had all been wrestlers.

2. Once Lawler got into legal trouble the whole match was shot but saying it was a featured match and where Owen's heel turn was starting they did the best thing they could do. They took a top talent not on the card and put him in the match. As for the knights again according to Prichard the original idea was to use guys under the mask that had ties to Lawler in the past (Terry Funk) for one. After Funk went home the office just said F it and got through the match.

3. It sucked. I imagine the original idea was Matt Bourne Doink, Steve Keirn Doink, et. al vs Bam Bam and his team. But when Bourne left the whole thing was iced and turned into the match we got.

So the long and short of it was it sucked. But some of the sucking wasn't entirely their fault.

Actually, it was Pat Patterson who pitched signing Bruce and doing the heel turn, but Bret lobbied for Owen since he had been there so long and was being wasted. Although when they brought all the guys in the match in to do a run-through, Bruce tried to take over setting up the match and designing it around himself, despite being a bit player in the storyline. It started with Lawler making fun of Stu and Helen, so they tried to make it the Hart Family vs. the Royal Family (hence why you had the Knights).

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Jan 1, 2019 17:20:45 GMT -5 @thehairydrunk said:

Jan 1, 2019 16:34:20 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Except for the debut of a little guy known as The Undertaker. And I like the concept of the elimination matches, it's not something that was commonplace at the time, and even now it's not like you see it on every show, unlike say, cage matches.

Nothing to do with it. It was a show he happened to debut on. It wasn't particularly note worthy at the time any more than any of debut. He didn't debut as someone who in 20 years time would be considered one of the all time wrestling icons. Nobody left the arena thinking "This guys undefeated streak at WM for the next 23 years is going to be amazing!"

I'd argue a little with that.

Obviously no one saw he'd be an all time legend.

But he came in, basically demolished a team with Dusty and the Hart Foundation on it, sold nothing and only got eliminated when he chose to walk away. Coming out of that night, he was established as a huge threat which to me is noteworthy. It's telling that he won the title a year later at the same event.