Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jan 17, 2019 23:31:05 GMT -5
I think I'll stick with ya, Gillette. Plus, I love their shave gel.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 18, 2019 2:46:26 GMT -5
The commercial didn’t offend me. There is a good message there. However it’s being given by a company that’s infamously known for price gouging and making false claims about its products. This new razor may be more expensive but it gives you a 23% closer shave! They were taken to court over claims like that and they were found to be false. There have been other controversies about them as well that I won’t get into. The point is whenever people preach to others about how to live they’re going to get fingers pointed back at them. That’s just human nature. It’s not surprising to me at all. I don’t think it’s fair to say that people who didn’t like the video are just as bad as the ones portrayed as toxic in the video. I don’t think that’s true for the most part. That feels like bullying to suppress any negative reaction. There is quite a bit of misandry in the media, especially in social media and there isn’t that much negative reaction to it. Sometimes it looks like it’s acceptable to hate men. There certainly isn’t much opposition to those opinions. I could see people thinking this could further promote that line of thinking. Just look at how many times a celebrity has cheated or a sex tape has been released and there have been multiple responses that men are trash or something far worse. Those are just a couple examples. There are so many messages being sent to men that they just aren’t good enough. That’s going to cause some resentment over time. Keep in mind that people often take things personally. Look no further than this messageboard to see people looking for the worst in someone’s post instead of trying to relate to it or understand it more clearly. Unfortunately that’s become human nature too. The backlash to this commercial really shouldn’t be that surprising at this point.The irony is not lost that many who have defended the video for its message of “don’t be a dick”, “don’t be a bully” have in turn been dickish and bullyish towards detractors of the video. But have they been bullied or just had their opinion challenged? Two very different things. * * Talking more in general. Twitter/Youtube...yeah probably bullying happening with both sides there.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 18, 2019 3:16:51 GMT -5
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
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Post by Nosnorb on Jan 18, 2019 7:08:46 GMT -5
Lewis's Law. That's what comes to mind when I hear the negative responses to the advert in regard to the message.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Jan 18, 2019 8:50:22 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I realise how much biased media is a factor in “controversies” like this. When these things come up, I imagine the people making the most noise aren’t reading about it from credible sites or papers but likely what pops up on their Twitter and FB feeds from those click bait “news” sites that are incredibly slanted and designed to rile people up on both ends of the spectrum. People don’t check sources and facts anymore, they see something that connects with them and treat it as gospel. Hell, even some of the credible sites you have to wade through bullshit sometimes Honestly, as someone who teaches about it, I don't want to say for certain that's what drives it. It's true that social media enables people live in bubbles, to consume only that which they want to hear and that which confirms their own preexisting world views (or worse, that which further radicalizes them toward a negative cause), but I find that some of this is less about that and more about the sheer speed with which news and information travels today, and thus the sheer volume of news that becomes available, and thus reactions can't help but fly more rapidly. Yes, the "bubbles" do come into play when some people become convinced that certain stories are major issues when, in reality, they're only really being talked about in that person's chosen corner of the internet, but I think the age of instantaneous reporting and reaction plays the larger role. That said, there are many studies behind "bubble construction", and I don't want to get into some of the particulars of the findings since it gets into the terrain of stuff that's really not on the table for discussion here. Suffice it to say, different people process new information differently, with some being more susceptible to clickbait and conspiracy-mongering due to the fear they often show in their approach to the world. Unfortunately, this can lead to some people losing all faith in even traditional, reliable media; I could go on and on about all the problems that plague many "establishment" newspapers and TV channels, but suffice it to say, they're more helpful than harmful the majority of the time. I think all of that was a roundabout way of saying that social media kind of holds a mirror up to nature and just accelerates a lot of habits that are already out there, I guess. it kinda goes with my point that people angry are not necessarily bad people that do bad stuff. But that are already in a situation where they are wired to see people as trying to "bash" then as man.And even if it is harmless they see the worst that people do(ex: I have friends that make jokes about how hating man/hetero is "cool".Which of course I dislike very much) they see that kind of comment and start to associate these type of comments that incite more hate to things that can be harmless. it honestly becomes a viscious cycle between the worst of people of both sides of this culture war.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 18, 2019 9:32:21 GMT -5
Nah, me saying 'don't be a dick' isn't bullying, especially because it was a general 'hey this ad means don't be a dick
I did call out the silliness of claiming the ad claims 'All men are bad' or mentions feminization of men. That's not bullying either. That's just factually not in the ad. Saying "no, you're wrong, and railing against a strawman makes it hard to take seriously" ain't bullying.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Jan 18, 2019 13:32:44 GMT -5
The irony is not lost that many who have defended the video for its message of “don’t be a dick”, “don’t be a bully” have in turn been dickish and bullyish towards detractors of the video. But have they been bullied or just had their opinion challenged? Two very different things. * * Talking more in general. Twitter/Youtube...yeah probably bullying happening with both sides there. HMARK said there wasn’t a controversy found so I asked generally why it had caused a stir. I got: “Because idiots” “Because people feel entitled to be dicks” “Because incels”. While myself and a few others on here have listed our reasons on disliking the commercial, have done so without coming off as dicks, idiots or incels. I dunno about that last part, I guess. Might have to have a word with my girlfriend Nah, me saying 'don't be a dick' isn't bullying, especially because it was a general 'hey this ad means don't be a dick I did call out the silliness of claiming the ad claims 'All men are bad' or mentions feminization of men. That's not bullying either. That's just factually not in the ad. Saying "no, you're wrong, and railing against a strawman makes it hard to take seriously" ain't bullying. You’ve disregarded a lot of valid arguments others have claimed with an air of “its nbd guys”. Which is fine, it’s you opinion. You’ve also claimed the commercial wouldn’t have been as effective against women and minorities because of their plight. As a minority, would you care to tell me what my plight is? Because I disagree. I think the commercial could have been effective with women and minorities and even used statistics or pew data with the negative generalizing and stereotyping. The reason they didn’t...is because of the insane backlash it would have gotten as to being unfair, dickish and reinforcing negative stereotypes. Even a mod on here warned posters to not start generalizing others, so which is it? Are we cool with generalizing? Even if there’s truth to it? Or no? Honestly, as someone who teaches about it, I don't want to say for certain that's what drives it. It's true that social media enables people live in bubbles, to consume only that which they want to hear and that which confirms their own preexisting world views (or worse, that which further radicalizes them toward a negative cause), but I find that some of this is less about that and more about the sheer speed with which news and information travels today, and thus the sheer volume of news that becomes available, and thus reactions can't help but fly more rapidly. Yes, the "bubbles" do come into play when some people become convinced that certain stories are major issues when, in reality, they're only really being talked about in that person's chosen corner of the internet, but I think the age of instantaneous reporting and reaction plays the larger role. That said, there are many studies behind "bubble construction", and I don't want to get into some of the particulars of the findings since it gets into the terrain of stuff that's really not on the table for discussion here. Suffice it to say, different people process new information differently, with some being more susceptible to clickbait and conspiracy-mongering due to the fear they often show in their approach to the world. Unfortunately, this can lead to some people losing all faith in even traditional, reliable media; I could go on and on about all the problems that plague many "establishment" newspapers and TV channels, but suffice it to say, they're more helpful than harmful the majority of the time. I think all of that was a roundabout way of saying that social media kind of holds a mirror up to nature and just accelerates a lot of habits that are already out there, I guess. it kinda goes with my point that people angry are not necessarily bad people that do bad stuff. But that are already in a situation where they are wired to see people as trying to "bash" then as man.And even if it is harmless they see the worst that people do(ex: I have friends that make jokes about how hating man/hetero is "cool".Which of course I dislike very much) they see that kind of comment and start to associate these type of comments that incite more hate to things that can be harmless. it honestly becomes a viscious cycle between the worst of people of both sides of this culture war.This I absolutely agree with. And I’ve brought it up before. I knew FAN would lean a certain way, and that’s ok, but the negative backlash comes on here as it has in other places from the other side of the argument. It’s just one vicious cycle with very little actual conversationl between both sides forming headway and progress. On here and elsewhere.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 18, 2019 13:50:31 GMT -5
Eh I'm not doin this with ya. Think what ya will.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,305
Member is Online
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 18, 2019 16:12:42 GMT -5
But have they been bullied or just had their opinion challenged? Two very different things. * * Talking more in general. Twitter/Youtube...yeah probably bullying happening with both sides there. HMARK said there wasn’t a controversy found so I asked generally why it had caused a stir. I got: “Because idiots” “Because people feel entitled to be dicks” “Because incels”. While myself and a few others on here have listed our reasons on disliking the commercial, have done so without coming off as dicks, idiots or incels. I dunno about that last part, I guess. Might have to have a word with my girlfriend Nah, me saying 'don't be a dick' isn't bullying, especially because it was a general 'hey this ad means don't be a dick I did call out the silliness of claiming the ad claims 'All men are bad' or mentions feminization of men. That's not bullying either. That's just factually not in the ad. Saying "no, you're wrong, and railing against a strawman makes it hard to take seriously" ain't bullying. You’ve disregarded a lot of valid arguments others have claimed with an air of “its nbd guys”. Which is fine, it’s you opinion. You’ve also claimed the commercial wouldn’t have been as effective against women and minorities because of their plight. As a minority, would you care to tell me what my plight is? Because I disagree. I think the commercial could have been effective with women and minorities and even used statistics or pew data with the negative generalizing and stereotyping. The reason they didn’t...is because of the insane backlash it would have gotten as to being unfair, dickish and reinforcing negative stereotypes. Even a mod on here warned posters to not start generalizing others, so which is it? Are we cool with generalizing? Even if there’s truth to it? Or no? it kinda goes with my point that people angry are not necessarily bad people that do bad stuff. But that are already in a situation where they are wired to see people as trying to "bash" then as man.And even if it is harmless they see the worst that people do(ex: I have friends that make jokes about how hating man/hetero is "cool".Which of course I dislike very much) they see that kind of comment and start to associate these type of comments that incite more hate to things that can be harmless. it honestly becomes a viscious cycle between the worst of people of both sides of this culture war.This I absolutely agree with. And I’ve brought it up before. I knew FAN would lean a certain way, and that’s ok, but the negative backlash comes on here as it has in other places from the other side of the argument. It’s just one vicious cycle with very little actual conversationl between both sides forming headway and progress. On here and elsewhere. Ovbiously the idiot/incel stuff wasn't aimed at anyone here. It was in response to why it's caused a huge stir internet wide. And, it's 100% true. This commercial hasn't been deemed "controversial" because so many people are angry at it for rational, well intentioned ways. Just one glance at any comment section outside of here will let you know of that. If the biggest complaint was the ones some of you have (which I still can't agree with, but they're not hateful or anything), it wouldn't even have made news.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 18, 2019 16:35:53 GMT -5
Ovbiously the idiot/incel stuff wasn't aimed at anyone here. It was in response to why it's caused a huge stir internet wide. And, it's 100% true. This commercial hasn't been deemed "controversial" because so many people are angry at it for rational, well intentioned ways. Just one glance at any comment section outside of here will let you know of that. If the biggest complaint was the ones some of you have (which I still can't agree with, but they're not hateful or anything), it wouldn't even have made news. Exactly. The idea that people calling idiotic responses to the ad idiotic is bullying is every bit the stretch that the ad itself is calling out all men and attacking all masculine traits. There's a reason why the rational, calm responses to anything aren't generally the ones that get the most attention.
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Post by Cela on Jan 18, 2019 18:52:16 GMT -5
The battle against kids roughhousing is a little odd. Let kids battle at cookouts, it's not always toxic masculinity. Some boys will be boys traits aren't a bad thing.
Otherwise, nice ad, with a slightly overblown media covered blowback.
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