H-Virus
Hank Scorpio
A Real Contagious Experience
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Post by H-Virus on Jan 23, 2019 20:02:33 GMT -5
I don't know. This was the first Raw I watched since September, and for a go-home show to a major pay-per-view, it really didn't feel like anything actually happened.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 23, 2019 20:26:15 GMT -5
I mean the major selling point was the first segment of the show, so after the Brock/Finn/Braun stuff, what was really the incentive to keep watching?
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Jan 23, 2019 20:40:21 GMT -5
I mean the major selling point was the first segment of the show, so after the Brock/Finn/Braun stuff, what was really the incentive to keep watching? They need to save the most important things for last now. The Monday Night Wars are over.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 23, 2019 20:44:14 GMT -5
Honestly, at this point it all feels like a “chickens come home to roost” thing.
WWE keeps promising change, they don’t give change, people are finally seeing that things only get good a certain period of time and bail. Like, sure, people could be a bit more patient somewhat since WrestleMania seems to have had plans going back to last year but at the same time, you make a big deal of all this and the best you have is “Remember most of the 2000s when McMahons were all over the show? Well, they’re here again!”, then you deserve the kicking.
It’s nowhere near as bad as different points last year but to finish a show at 2.1 before one of your big 4 (arguably the second biggest you have) shows isn’t great at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 20:53:54 GMT -5
I watched the first segment and it seems pretty much the same except Vince is there now.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 23, 2019 20:56:16 GMT -5
I called this in the big "Will things change?" thread when people said not to expect anything until after Mania: WWE literally cannot afford that. People will not stay tuned in for six months waiting for things to change, they need to show something now and they need to use Mania season as the time to do it. Things have to be different and they have to be different when they have the most eyes on them through the year, because at the rate they're trending we may well be due for another filler Wrestlemania where nothing really gets resolved. People aren't going to keep tuning in for that, and when you can lose 700,000 viewers there is zero f***ing reason to think everything is okay.
Also, Brock as champion is not a TV draw. He is objectively not doing the show any good and has been champion for so much of this downward slump in recennt years that it's absolutely pathetic how they keep thinking he's the ticket. Put the champion on your f***ing show and keep him there. Stop this nonsense.
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salz4life
Grimlock
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Post by salz4life on Jan 23, 2019 22:55:10 GMT -5
I mean... cutting back to two hours would be the best start they could have..... but, we know that isn’t going to happen, so....
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 23, 2019 22:59:23 GMT -5
Good. You promise new content and deliver the same boring shit still every week. People ain't gonna buy into this BS, and "PUT THE MCMAHONS ON TV" isn't a solution to an ever degrading product. You have no football as an excuse anymore, this shit is broken. The shows have been better. Even the FAN rating polls reflect that.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 23, 2019 23:03:55 GMT -5
I think the shows have been better, but I don't blame people for not tuning in. They need to stay better to engender good will. Otherwise, people will expect the rug to be pulled out from under them for the umpteenth time. If Rumble's good, and I hope it will be, that will probably be a clear demonstration that WWE is changing for the better. If the show sucks, it's going to reinforce that people should stay away for now.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Jan 23, 2019 23:10:13 GMT -5
So was the thing they were confident would fix ratings in January just...Vince being on every show now? Yeah. What the hell was that supposed to be? The subtle changes they’ve made? Expecting the elite to sign? Cena? Simply being on the road to the rumble?
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Jan 23, 2019 23:24:04 GMT -5
It doesn’t even matter if we think the shows are better. As we are part of the core of WWE’s audience. What WWE struggle with, is attracting and keeping, a casual audience. And the things they promised, even if they honor those promises, aren’t what attracts a casual audience. It’s not about new matches or the quality of matches. When wrestling is at its most popular, it is about personalities and angles. It’s Hulk Hogan, the NWO, and Austin vs. McMahon. Matches are just the means by which angles ore progressed and ended. Matches should be A selling point, not THE selling point.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 23, 2019 23:44:56 GMT -5
As someone who stopped months ago, maybe things are better but I'm over here goin: "that's ok, I'm good." Probably not alone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 23:47:32 GMT -5
So, like, when are they going to realize that Rousey does absolutely nothing for ratings? They keep positioning her in main events and hyping each time she wrestles like it's a huge deal and I don't think it's even once amounted to a good hour.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jan 23, 2019 23:50:34 GMT -5
It’s been a month since they promised a newer and diffeeent product. It’s the same full crap everybody was sick of And HHH said "Weeks and months" because you can't make a sharp left turn in a battleship
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 24, 2019 0:20:08 GMT -5
It’s been a month since they promised a newer and diffeeent product. It’s the same full crap everybody was sick of And HHH said "Weeks and months" because you can't make a sharp left turn in a battleship When your battleship is heading right into an iceberg you'd damn well better start spinning that wheel. They write the show week to week, there is literally no reason to not start changing things up and experimenting, even just with bits of the show to try things out. WWE's show format is not succeeding and with their most watched time of the year upon them, keeping it all going because "change is hard you guys" is disastrous.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jan 24, 2019 0:27:17 GMT -5
And HHH said "Weeks and months" because you can't make a sharp left turn in a battleship When your battleship is heading right into an iceberg you'd damn well better start spinning that wheel. They write the show week to week, there is literally no reason to not start changing things up and experimenting, even just with bits of the show to try things out. WWE's show format is not succeeding and with their most watched time of the year upon them, keeping it all going because "change is hard you guys" is disastrous. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't - they try to do it as organically as possible it's "Too slow", they make that turn and miss the iceberg and you'll say it's "Too fast". You have options. They have options.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 24, 2019 0:38:55 GMT -5
When your battleship is heading right into an iceberg you'd damn well better start spinning that wheel. They write the show week to week, there is literally no reason to not start changing things up and experimenting, even just with bits of the show to try things out. WWE's show format is not succeeding and with their most watched time of the year upon them, keeping it all going because "change is hard you guys" is disastrous. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't - they try to do it as organically as possible it's "Too slow", they make that turn and miss the iceberg and you'll say it's "Too fast". You have options. They have options. No, I won't say it's too fast, because something needs to happen. Also don't tell me what I'd say if it was the other way around that is as bad faith a response as you can get. Viewers are not going to wait around for the chance they actually mean it when they say things will change if they're not shown very much changing. Raw lost a quarter of its viewers in the span of one episode. Hour three is almost down to pre-Vince arrival numbers. If the audience doesn't see with their own two eyes that something is changing and they tune back out, it's going to mean that people will write off any eventual change that happens, it means they won't tune back in next time changes are promised. It means if they can be salvaged and brought back, it will be harder. It means the longer they wait to actually change anything, the longer it will take to rebuild their shrinking fanbase and bring their numbers up and break the trend of losing hundreds of thousands of viewers every year. If they want to be organic about it, then fine. But if nothing but superficial in-universe elements have changed in over a month since the announcement, that's not slow and organic growth. They aren't trying new things or experimenting or feeling out new format ideas, despite having access to quarter-hour ratings reports and a ton of metrics they could use to begin trying things out even for just 30 minutes an episode and seeing how they work out. Which brings the broader idea into focus; Vince isn't really changing anything and it's the same old show minus the Corbin overpush and with a lot more Vince involved. And that's not going to fix anything.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jan 24, 2019 1:01:17 GMT -5
They're damned if they do and damned if they don't - they try to do it as organically as possible it's "Too slow", they make that turn and miss the iceberg and you'll say it's "Too fast". You have options. They have options. No, I won't say it's too fast, because something needs to happen. Also don't tell me what I'd say if it was the other way around that is as bad faith a response as you can get. Viewers are not going to wait around for the chance they actually mean it when they say things will change if they're not shown very much changing. Raw lost a quarter of its viewers in the span of one episode. Hour three is almost down to pre-Vince arrival numbers. If the audience doesn't see with their own two eyes that something is changing and they tune back out, it's going to mean that people will write off any eventual change that happens, it means they won't tune back in next time changes are promised. It means if they can be salvaged and brought back, it will be harder. It means the longer they wait to actually change anything, the longer it will take to rebuild their shrinking fanbase and bring their numbers up and break the trend of losing hundreds of thousands of viewers every year. If they want to be organic about it, then fine. But if nothing but superficial in-universe elements have changed in over a month since the announcement, that's not slow and organic growth. They aren't trying new things or experimenting or feeling out new format ideas, despite having access to quarter-hour ratings reports and a ton of metrics they could use to begin trying things out even for just 30 minutes an episode and seeing how they work out. Which brings the broader idea into focus; Vince isn't really changing anything and it's the same old show minus the Corbin overpush and with a lot more Vince involved. And that's not going to fix anything. Triple H clarified that "over the weeks and months" the changes are coming and they're trying to fold all that in with whatever plans they've already had to rewrite ten times for Mania season that are typically locked in in August. They had one big rewrite with Roman, they've had to do more rewriting because of Braun, the whole Brock situation probably can't be re-written since I'm sure they had to guarantee his Rumble and Mania appearances and paychecks. It would cost them a lot more to change that because Lesnar could hold them up for a LOT more to just drop the strap and skip Mania. Vince won't pay it, and if that changes they might lose a lot of casuals' money because there are casuals out there who like Lesnar and would find Balor beating Lesnar at the Rumble "not feasible". I agree with you that more McMahons wasn't going to fix the problem. I'm glad that's been backed off on a little bit from the first week or so when one of the McMahons or HHH would show up and change something on the fly. They're showing us that they're bringing in new talent - and that doesn't feel terribly organic because people are demanding change now now now. New people, there, change. "Oh, so-and-so they have no plans for." So not happy either way. Rumble to Mania is usually planned out in August, but because of Roman's condition and Braun's questionable status with his arm, things are right back up in the air. They still have to write something that will at least please the PAYING fanbase and not the bitching fanbase. They'll look at the money before they look at the complaints and will do their changes at their pace, thus the gray area statement of "Weeks and Months". I'm guessing a lot of the BIG changes are going to happen after Mania, and maybe some can be implemented at the Rumble, which is still not fast enough for some. I'll keep saying it - if you're still not satisfied, then stop putting all that negativity into your life and find something else to watch. Right now we're in a golden age of choices with more programming choices available than ever. If WWE isn't changing fast enough or correct for you, please, find some wrestling that you like.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 24, 2019 1:24:50 GMT -5
They still have to write something that will at least please the PAYING fanbase and not the bitching fanbase. Ha ha yikes. Simple fact is, they're losing their paying fanbase by almost every measurable metric and haven't cared enough to do a damn thing to stop it. Casual and hardcore fans alike are tuning out and dropping the subscriptions. I don't catch Raw most weeks and haven't had a Network sub in months, I hover around waiting for the show to be something I feel like I'd want to watch again, and end up watching PPVs with friends because it's a social activity. Mania season is when a lot of casual fans tune in, and ever year fewer and fewer of them come back. This can't be a slow burn post-Mania evolution if they want to avoid another ratings crash, and whether or not they've decided to be slow about what may or may not be changing isn't the point. Waiting and hoping people stay tuned in isn't going to work and this week's ratings kind of prove it's not going to work. There's no more football to go up against and they still dropped to almost as low an hour three as they were pulling before they had to press the panic button. That's a sign shit's not working, and that their paying fanbase and their "bitching fanbase" are the same goddamn thing. People not being happy with a bunch of panic call-ups having no direction is not people being impossible to please, it's a measurable complaint people have had against the product for years. If you just want to paint everyone with a complaint as impossible to make happy, find better material.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 1:27:33 GMT -5
No, I won't say it's too fast, because something needs to happen. Also don't tell me what I'd say if it was the other way around that is as bad faith a response as you can get. Viewers are not going to wait around for the chance they actually mean it when they say things will change if they're not shown very much changing. Raw lost a quarter of its viewers in the span of one episode. Hour three is almost down to pre-Vince arrival numbers. If the audience doesn't see with their own two eyes that something is changing and they tune back out, it's going to mean that people will write off any eventual change that happens, it means they won't tune back in next time changes are promised. It means if they can be salvaged and brought back, it will be harder. It means the longer they wait to actually change anything, the longer it will take to rebuild their shrinking fanbase and bring their numbers up and break the trend of losing hundreds of thousands of viewers every year. If they want to be organic about it, then fine. But if nothing but superficial in-universe elements have changed in over a month since the announcement, that's not slow and organic growth. They aren't trying new things or experimenting or feeling out new format ideas, despite having access to quarter-hour ratings reports and a ton of metrics they could use to begin trying things out even for just 30 minutes an episode and seeing how they work out. Which brings the broader idea into focus; Vince isn't really changing anything and it's the same old show minus the Corbin overpush and with a lot more Vince involved. And that's not going to fix anything. Triple H clarified that "over the weeks and months" the changes are coming and they're trying to fold all that in with whatever plans they've already had to rewrite ten times for Mania season that are typically locked in in August. They had one big rewrite with Roman, they've had to do more rewriting because of Braun, the whole Brock situation probably can't be re-written since I'm sure they had to guarantee his Rumble and Mania appearances and paychecks. It would cost them a lot more to change that because Lesnar could hold them up for a LOT more to just drop the strap and skip Mania. Vince won't pay it, and if that changes they might lose a lot of casuals' money because there are casuals out there who like Lesnar and would find Balor beating Lesnar at the Rumble "not feasible". I agree with you that more McMahons wasn't going to fix the problem. I'm glad that's been backed off on a little bit from the first week or so when one of the McMahons or HHH would show up and change something on the fly. They're showing us that they're bringing in new talent - and that doesn't feel terribly organic because people are demanding change now now now. New people, there, change. "Oh, so-and-so they have no plans for." So not happy either way. Rumble to Mania is usually planned out in August, but because of Roman's condition and Braun's questionable status with his arm, things are right back up in the air. They still have to write something that will at least please the PAYING fanbase and not the bitching fanbase. They'll look at the money before they look at the complaints and will do their changes at their pace, thus the gray area statement of "Weeks and Months". I'm guessing a lot of the BIG changes are going to happen after Mania, and maybe some can be implemented at the Rumble, which is still not fast enough for some. I'll keep saying it - if you're still not satisfied, then stop putting all that negativity into your life and find something else to watch. Right now we're in a golden age of choices with more programming choices available than ever. If WWE isn't changing fast enough or correct for you, please, find some wrestling that you like. Pretty much. I get it, people tune in and hope that things get better. I get that those love WWE and want to see it improve. But, you also have those who have been “burned” so many times that they only really see the pessimistic side of things and are quick to doubt every thing until they’re proven right (which I don’t blame them for as their decision making has been less than stellar in the past.) But, people sometimes take their distain too far and simply hate watch. At least it seems like it. This is in general and happens on all wrestling discussion boards tbh. That type of attitude just sort of brings me down.
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