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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 5, 2019 18:03:43 GMT -5
I love these threads and the insight from fans of that era like Madison Carter. They're always an interesting read, even if I have little to contribute.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on Feb 5, 2019 18:40:58 GMT -5
While Dusty didn’t hold a world title for a long time and his run in the WWF wasn’t on top like when he was with the NWA he definitely drew in Florida and the Carolinas. Dusty made plenty of money as a draw in the NWA so Ronnie Garvin sounds bitter if he’s denying that fact. Garvin would’ve been better off knocking his wrestling ability by saying Dusty wasn’t as good as Flair or Windham or Blanchard or Anderson. He’d get a lot more people agreeing with a take like that. Hate the guy all you want but at least tell the truth about him while you’re doing it. Except it's a long-known fact that Dusty did exactly what Ron says he did. Every single hot property that came along - Road Warriors, Magnum TA, Nikita, Luger - Dusty booked himself to be their partner and would make himself the focal point of the angle. Every single time. This is not some new dark secret. He also single-handedly murdered the Florida promotion when he befriended Crockett and started pulling BTS crap like convincing other Florida workers to bail and sign with JCP, all while still a Florida roster member. There's a lot of good about Dusty, but Dusty wasn't a saint and he did some pretty awful stuff business-wise over the years. This is, after all, the guy that fired Baby Doll because she wouldn't sleep with him and got married to Sam Houston instead. I never knew that. Makes me look at the baby doll/dusty angle in a new light
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Post by Joe Neglia on Feb 5, 2019 21:17:16 GMT -5
Dusty gets way more criticism and deservedly so. This f***er actually fired Babydoll because she wouldn’t sleep with him. There are differences in each case, certainly. But other powerful people have been linked to sex and power dynamics in the past. Tommy Rich, Shawn Michaels, and HHH have been accused/suspected of sleeping their way to the top in one way or another. Can you think of anybody who made any kind of moral stand for Babydoll when she was being sexually harassed? It's a dirty business, and anybody who has been on top gets a lot of mud slung at them. Some of it is probably true. We're not going to turn this into a subject-deflecting "Well, what about...?" thing. We're not talking about Tommy Rich, Shawn Michaels or HHH. We're talking about Dusty Rhodes. Period. Excusing one for what others do is not the way things work. As far as Rich goes, if the story about him is to be believed, he would actually be the victim in his case, not the predator. Can I think of anyone who made a moral stand for her? The F*** does that matter? Her husband did, I can tell you that. Jesus, people...
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 5, 2019 21:36:28 GMT -5
Another story of Dusty’s petty bullshit. He wanted to book Flair losing the belt to Rick Steiner in five minutes.
Adrian Street also thinks Dusty fired him from Florida because he called him fat.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,909
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 5, 2019 21:41:55 GMT -5
I forget the year, but Cornette tells the story of Dusty saying, "This time next year, we'll be making sitcoms and major motion pictures". It's ridiculous to hear now, and must've sounded goofy even at the time, but Vince obviously was changing the game, and like Madison said, the NWA certainly took notice, even if they're probably have hated to admit it.
History showed even Vince and Hogan couldn't necessarily parlay mainstream appeal and recognition into making Hogan a movie star, but that was "Stardust", Dusty selling guys, well, the dream.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 5, 2019 21:54:04 GMT -5
I forget the year, but Cornette tells the story of Dusty saying, "This time next year, we'll be making sitcoms and major motion pictures". It's ridiculous to hear now, and must've sounded goofy even at the time, but Vince obviously was changing the game, and like Madison said, the NWA certainly took notice, even if they're probably have hated to admit it. History showed even Vince and Hogan couldn't necessarily parlay mainstream appeal and recognition into making Hogan a movie star, but that was "Stardust", Dusty selling guys, well, the dream. I’m picturing Dusty pitching Marlon Brando to play him in a movie. God a Dusty biographical film would make Mr Burns blush.
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Post by MrElijah on Feb 5, 2019 22:10:30 GMT -5
I didn’t know they tried to get into the movies? Flair wrote that Dusty during that time was bullshitting about Sylvester Stallone playing Magnum TA in an autobiographical movie, i always thought that was just Dusty lying but they were trying to get into Hollywood? What the f*** were they thinking? Basically they saw what Vince was doing and thinking "we've been at this longer than him, if he's going Hollywood, we can go even better." But yeah, there's an alternate universe out there somewhere in which Dusty Rhodes starred in bad Cannon Films action movies. Everyone always talks about Flair and the Horseman living their gimmick, but the truth was that Dusty and Crockett were living the Horsemen gimmick even more than Flair and Tully were. I don't know about you but a Dusty action flick sounds hilarious.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Feb 5, 2019 22:27:13 GMT -5
Meh, Dusty got more of a pop in the one "Hard Times" promo than Ronnie Garvin got over the course of his entire career, so...I'll side with Dusty on this one.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Feb 5, 2019 22:51:09 GMT -5
Another story of Dusty’s petty bullshit. He wanted to book Flair losing the belt to Rick Steiner in five minutes. Adrian Street also thinks Dusty fired him from Florida because he called him fat. There's actually more to the Steiner thing - they were purposely booking him against Rick Steiner of all people because they believed Steiner could be instructed to walk out champ whether Flair liked it or not, and hurt him a good bit while doing so. Entire reason. Had nothing to do with Rick's feelgood babyface gimmick or popularity, he was just going to be a hitman for them.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Feb 5, 2019 23:02:16 GMT -5
I’m picturing Dusty pitching Marlon Brando to play him in a movie. Well, since Dusty already played Brando once before, I guess it would pay in kind. And don't let anything I've said here betray the notion that I am, at the end of the day, a fan of Dusty's. One of the biggest legitimate stars ever, top notch promo, etc. But the Dusty most people are familiar with - the Crockett-era Dusty - that dude had some serious faults and just wasn't that good anymore. He benefited a lot from booking himself, at the expense of others. The Dusty before that? Florida and hitting the territory circuit and all that? That dude was a legit phenom. The fun-loving, "I'm just here for the ride these days" Dusty of his WWE years? Love that dude. The one in-between? Meh.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 5, 2019 23:05:36 GMT -5
Basically they saw what Vince was doing and thinking "we've been at this longer than him, if he's going Hollywood, we can go even better." But yeah, there's an alternate universe out there somewhere in which Dusty Rhodes starred in bad Cannon Films action movies. Everyone always talks about Flair and the Horseman living their gimmick, but the truth was that Dusty and Crockett were living the Horsemen gimmick even more than Flair and Tully were. I don't know about you but a Dusty action flick sounds hilarious. I can’t find it but there was a vignette in Florida of Dusty riding a horse, poor horse, and pointing a shotgun at JJ Dillon for traspassing.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 5, 2019 23:07:14 GMT -5
I’m picturing Dusty pitching Marlon Brando to play him in a movie. Well, since Dusty already played Brando once before, I guess it would pay in kind. And don't let anything I've said here betray the notion that I am, at the end of the day, a fan of Dusty's. One of the biggest legitimate stars ever, top notch promo, etc. But the Dusty most people are familiar with - the Crockett-era Dusty - that dude had some serious faults and just wasn't that good anymore. He benefited a lot from booking himself, at the expense of others. The Dusty before that? Florida and hitting the territory circuit and all that? That dude was a legit phenom. The fun-loving, "I'm just here for the ride these days" Dusty of his WWE years? Love that dude. The one in-between? Meh. He’s a legend and drew more money than people can think off, but outside the ring he was a different person, and as a booker not only in Crockett everything was about him but also in tna when he was a booker.
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Post by MrElijah on Feb 5, 2019 23:31:37 GMT -5
I’m picturing Dusty pitching Marlon Brando to play him in a movie. Well, since Dusty already played Brando once before, I guess it would pay in kind. And don't let anything I've said here betray the notion that I am, at the end of the day, a fan of Dusty's. One of the biggest legitimate stars ever, top notch promo, etc. But the Dusty most people are familiar with - the Crockett-era Dusty - that dude had some serious faults and just wasn't that good anymore. He benefited a lot from booking himself, at the expense of others. The Dusty before that? Florida and hitting the territory circuit and all that? That dude was a legit phenom. The fun-loving, "I'm just here for the ride these days" Dusty of his WWE years? Love that dude. The one in-between? Meh. 1) That's amazing. 2) You can really see where Dustin & Cody got their theatrical style from.
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Post by héad.casé on Feb 6, 2019 6:39:31 GMT -5
I don't know, I can see Dusty in a so bad it's good western flick where the gang that thinks they run the town are causing trouble, in comes Dusty doing his best John Wayne and sends the bad guys packing. Probably even call it Midnight Rider.
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efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
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Post by efarns on Feb 6, 2019 9:07:53 GMT -5
There are differences in each case, certainly. But other powerful people have been linked to sex and power dynamics in the past. Tommy Rich, Shawn Michaels, and HHH have been accused/suspected of sleeping their way to the top in one way or another. Can you think of anybody who made any kind of moral stand for Babydoll when she was being sexually harassed? It's a dirty business, and anybody who has been on top gets a lot of mud slung at them. Some of it is probably true. We're not going to turn this into a subject-deflecting "Well, what about...?" thing. We're not talking about Tommy Rich, Shawn Michaels or HHH. We're talking about Dusty Rhodes. Period. Excusing one for what others do is not the way things work. As far as Rich goes, if the story about him is to be believed, he would actually be the victim in his case, not the predator. Can I think of anyone who made a moral stand for her? The F*** does that matter? Her husband did, I can tell you that. Jesus, people... You can turn it into whatever you want. I'll address it however I choose. Context is king. Garvin had plenty of opportunities to address this in the last 30 years and now that Dusty's dead, I'm not going to hold Ron Garvin up as any kind of paragon of anything for spitting on his memory. Dusty was an employee. He worked in an environment that was full of all manner of immoral and amoral behavior. I'm sure he participated in his share, and if he abused his power for money or sex or to further his career, he only proved that he was better at it than the other sharks in the locker room. I don't think much of Ron Garvin for trying to look like a hero now that it's 30 years too late.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Feb 6, 2019 9:57:01 GMT -5
We're not going to turn this into a subject-deflecting "Well, what about...?" thing. We're not talking about Tommy Rich, Shawn Michaels or HHH. We're talking about Dusty Rhodes. Period. Excusing one for what others do is not the way things work. As far as Rich goes, if the story about him is to be believed, he would actually be the victim in his case, not the predator. Can I think of anyone who made a moral stand for her? The F*** does that matter? Her husband did, I can tell you that. Jesus, people... You can turn it into whatever you want. I'll address it however I choose. Context is king. Garvin had plenty of opportunities to address this in the last 30 years and now that Dusty's dead, I'm not going to hold Ron Garvin up as any kind of paragon of anything for spitting on his memory. Dusty was an employee. He worked in an environment that was full of all manner of immoral and amoral behavior. I'm sure he participated in his share, and if he abused his power for money or sex or to further his career, he only proved that he was better at it than the other sharks in the locker room. I don't think much of Ron Garvin for trying to look like a hero now that it's 30 years too late. Don't post in this thread again.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 6, 2019 10:37:20 GMT -5
I don't know, I can see Dusty in a so bad it's good western flick where the gang that thinks they run the town are causing trouble, in comes Dusty doing his best John Wayne and sends the bad guys packing. Probably even call it Midnight Rider. It’s funny, Flair wrote that Dusty saw himself as John Wayne and that’s how he booked himself.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 6, 2019 10:54:53 GMT -5
Dusty is a good example of why you shouldn't be an active wrestler AND the booker at the same time. I can't think of many successful examples of it. You're always going to look out for numero uno, which means you're always going to book yourself at the top. Except Dusty is a successful example of someone doing it, at least until 87/88. The problem is knowing when to step back, or being willing to anyway. Watts and other old time promoters would cycle through bookers every year or so whenever it became apparent that someone was at their creative burn-out point. Crockett would have been smart to do this, especially around 87/88 to ward off some of the worst of Dusty's final year of JCP booker like the Midnight Rider, Bunkhouse Stampede, RON GARVIN as world champion, etc... Also, Magnum's career being cut short at the end of 86 plays an overlooked role in the perception of Dusty's booking in 87/88. If Magnum doesn't have the wreck, maybe 1987 is remembered as his crowning achievement as a booker. It's possible it doesn't work out (he had chances to make either Wyndham or Luger the top guy but instead feuds with both of them and goes over both of them), but we'll never know for sure.
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Feb 6, 2019 17:06:21 GMT -5
But yeah, there's an alternate universe out there somewhere in which Dusty Rhodes starred in bad Cannon Films action movies. I never knew I wanted this until now Imagine a world where it's Dusty on the poster for Invasion USA instead of Chuck Norris
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 6, 2019 17:15:59 GMT -5
Steve Corino cut this promo on Dusty while they were feuding in ECW,
“You killed Jim Crockett Promotions and you cut the brake line in Magnum TA’s car!!”
That’s heat brother.
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