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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 0:35:31 GMT -5
Just something I found myself randomly wondering about.
I can think of plenty of people who had their career at least for some time noticeably damaged by a bad heel turn - top of my head Ambrose, Samoa Joe, Tatanka, Rikishi, quite arguably Austin, Ryback, and 2001 Angle - but face turns... I'm not really having as much come to mind.
I dunno, just something I'm wondering about. It kind of feels to me like having a heel turn wind up not working out well is a lot more likely to bite you than a face one. The only one I can really think of is Miz and that is VERY debatable given he was largely being made to look like a loser before the face turn anyway and if anything it raised his stock for a few weeks before they went back to playing him as a joke.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 0:39:25 GMT -5
Just something I found myself randomly wondering about. I can think of plenty of people who had their career at least for some time noticeably damaged by a bad heel turn - top of my head Ambrose, Samoa Joe, Tatanka, Rikishi, quite arguably Austin, Ryback, and 2001 Angle - but face turns... I'm not really having as much come to mind. I dunno, just something I'm wondering about. It kind of feels to me like having a heel turn wind up not working out well is a lot more likely to bite you than a face one. The only one I can really think of is Miz and that is VERY debatable given he was largely being made to look like a loser before the face turn anyway and if anything it raised his stock for a few weeks before they went back to playing him as a joke. Miz's face turn was a fart in church. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 0:40:46 GMT -5
Just something I found myself randomly wondering about. I can think of plenty of people who had their career at least for some time noticeably damaged by a bad heel turn - top of my head Ambrose, Samoa Joe, Tatanka, Rikishi, quite arguably Austin, Ryback, and 2001 Angle - but face turns... I'm not really having as much come to mind. I dunno, just something I'm wondering about. It kind of feels to me like having a heel turn wind up not working out well is a lot more likely to bite you than a face one. The only one I can really think of is Miz and that is VERY debatable given he was largely being made to look like a loser before the face turn anyway and if anything it raised his stock for a few weeks before they went back to playing him as a joke. Miz's face turn was a fart in church. I mean, after the first few weeks it certainly was, but my point is more that he basically stayed where he was already at as a heel at that time. He had already turned into a joke before it happened. |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 3, 2019 0:52:51 GMT -5
Well, if a face turn bombs and the person can't get cheered, it's much easier to get that person hated again than it is to try to force a connection with the crowd.
For example, see the time they tried to make Tony Nese a face on 205 Live last year.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Feb 3, 2019 0:59:32 GMT -5
no because if a heel turn goes bad and fans don't give a shit about the wrestler, it can and will always be argued "well the fans aren't supposed to like the wrestler, so they're doing their job". its like a built in fail safe
if a face turn goes bad and fans don't give a shit about the wrestler, its always uncomfortable to watch cause it seems like there's an invisible countdown to them being future endeavored (even though they rarely actually are)
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Feb 12, 2019 14:06:39 GMT -5
Just something I found myself randomly wondering about. I can think of plenty of people who had their career at least for some time noticeably damaged by a bad heel turn - top of my head Ambrose, Samoa Joe, Tatanka, Rikishi, quite arguably Austin, Ryback, and 2001 Angle - but face turns... I'm not really having as much come to mind. I dunno, just something I'm wondering about. It kind of feels to me like having a heel turn wind up not working out well is a lot more likely to bite you than a face one. The only one I can really think of is Miz and that is VERY debatable given he was largely being made to look like a loser before the face turn anyway and if anything it raised his stock for a few weeks before they went back to playing him as a joke. I don't think heel angle bombed in 01, and Rikishi needed to do something new anyway. |
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anglarite
Don Corleone
...enchantment!
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Post by anglarite on Feb 12, 2019 14:15:55 GMT -5
Sasha Banks?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 12, 2019 17:21:43 GMT -5
Heel turns these days are especially difficult, because the fans are getting smarkier by the day and heels are more likely to get big pops in a 'that was a great heel move!' way rather than boos.
This is why I like crowds that play along. Last weekend at Pro Wrestling:EVE Nina Samuels couldn't get a word out on the mic because of the boos. I was actually stood next to the promoter and even he seemed flabbergasted by the heat despite having booked her as champion.
WWE's audience is so used now after so many years to reacting against the booking that, as many have said, some wrestlers could eat a puppy in the ring and get face pops.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 20:11:55 GMT -5
Face turns are what kill careers.
Some wrestlers never recover from turning face. Even if they’re popular as shit as heels.
I have a few prime examples of this...
Damien Sandow. Loved as the Intellectual Savior. Loved as Miz’s Stunt Double. SUCKED as a face.
Alex Riley. Decent as a jock heel. Got an initial pop for kicking Miz’s ass but ultimately SUCKED as a face.
MVP. One of the best heels of the 00’s... sucked as a face.
Elias. Thankfully they’ve turned him back quick but he was getting to that “corny” stage where he was doing singalongs and pandering to the crowd. Nobody wanted to cheer that guy.
Mr. Kennedy... was talked about as being the top star of the company for ages when he was a heel. He turns face and is corny as shit. Killed him.
There’s plenty of other examples.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 13, 2019 4:09:10 GMT -5
It varies from case to case. X-Pac is probably the biggest backfire of them all, as he was easily one of the most over guys in the company when he turned heel, even by Attitude Era standards, and could easily been a fixture as a main event guy. While he always got reactions as a heel, he rapidly slipped down the card and was gone from the company within a couple of years.
Val Venis became successively less and less over each time he turned. Came in hot, had a failed heel turn, followed by a failed face turn, followed by a failed heel turn, rinse and repeat until he was literally just a warm body in the ring that nobody gave a crap about.
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Post by clodhopper on Feb 13, 2019 13:23:21 GMT -5
This is where Lucha Underground was really good. In WWE I mostly just find myself cheering for the characters I like the most, regardless of alignment, because the storylines are generally rubbish. In LU, 95% of the time you genuinely wanted to see the faces win because the writing was up to scratch and made you care.
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