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Post by arrogantmodel on Feb 7, 2019 23:56:02 GMT -5
Yeah, the body shaming ones are ridiculous.
First off, Molly and Mickie are gorgeous, so it was stupid right out of the gate. Second, body issues are a real problem for people, especially young girls, so doing that is basically shitting on young fans too.
It doesn't matter if the face wins, there's already been weeks of, "You're fat! Haha!" stuff, and kids are going to copy that. And to adults, it comes off as a real asshole thing to do.
And they won't ever learn their lesson, because they had Alexa do it to Nia.
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Paul
Vegeta
Posts: 9,332
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Post by Paul on Feb 8, 2019 0:30:27 GMT -5
That angle where Ted DiBiase is particularly mean to Virgil (just before Virgil has finally had enough and turns on him to a huge pop).
I liked Virgil (I just thought he was cool) and was mad that he was being treated like garbage just because he needed the job and Ted was paying him.
Also, the racial overtones of the angle bothered me years later and gave me one more reason to not like that angle even if it was building up to the Face Virgil vs. Heel Ted angle and Virgil's singles run.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Feb 8, 2019 3:35:50 GMT -5
Airing the “Terrorist” segment the same day as the 7/7 bombings. I don’t buy for one second that WWE had no power to stop it airing, had there been a terror attack in the US that day there’s no way that segment would have aired. For me it’s not just this segment but the whole angle. The Muhammad Hassan character began as a fairly creative one, but just got progressively more and more lazy and racist, and by that point it was blatantly using horrible, divisive ethnic and religious stereotypes to garner heat. A real low point for a company that’s had many.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 8, 2019 3:36:52 GMT -5
To be honest, I never minded it at the time because Michelle was the heel and she eventually jobbed to Mickie in seconds. The above story about the effect it had changes my mind completely. To that end, yes, the Molly version was dumber cause Trish was supposed to be the face. And she was clearly lying/overexaggerating. I am with you on why it bothered you more, after reading the other posts. What's sad is, like I said, women of a certain size are still not being accepted today, not totally. With all the PC complaints, they are still "acceptable" targets. Doesn't help that PSW who are well-known play into the stereotypes and those are the most typical roles they get or accept. Like I said, maybe they don't all think they're PS role models and thus think nothing of it, and maybe only I'm taking it seriously. Or they don't see it as such, who can say? But...it makes me sad that people like Cass Elliott, Kate Smith, Marie Dressler, et al would be laughed out of a recording studio or movie studio today. Then you had people like Karen Carpenter whom the above mindset literally murdered. And that too still happens today from time to time. (EDIT, KIND OF OT: Gizzark? You were the Rita Hayworth/classic films fan, no?) Yeah, that was me!
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,848
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Post by agent817 on Feb 8, 2019 19:39:15 GMT -5
To be honest, I never minded it at the time because Michelle was the heel and she eventually jobbed to Mickie in seconds. The above story about the effect it had changes my mind completely. To that end, yes, the Molly version was dumber cause Trish was supposed to be the face. And she was clearly lying/overexaggerating. I am with you on why it bothered you more, after reading the other posts. What's sad is, like I said, women of a certain size are still not being accepted today, not totally. With all the PC complaints, they are still "acceptable" targets. Doesn't help that PSW who are well-known play into the stereotypes and those are the most typical roles they get or accept. Like I said, maybe they don't all think they're PS role models and thus think nothing of it, and maybe only I'm taking it seriously. Or they don't see it as such, who can say? But...it makes me sad that people like Cass Elliott, Kate Smith, Marie Dressler, et al would be laughed out of a recording studio or movie studio today. Then you had people like Karen Carpenter whom the above mindset literally murdered. And that too still happens today from time to time. (EDIT, KIND OF OT: Gizzark? You were the Rita Hayworth/classic films fan, no?) Then again, you also had the likes of Jill Scott, Kelly Price, and Marsha Ambrosius, though they have also lost weight, as well as regained some of it. I don't recall some people making fun of them, but that didn't mean that it wasn't there. Did Carnie Wilson ever suffer anything like what you mentioned? I remember some people talking crap about Missy Elliott when she was bigger. Anyway, onto the topic at hand, I agree with a lot of what was mentioned, but I really didn't like how Charlie Haas accidentally knocking Lilian Garcia off the ring apron was turned into an angle. Some of that made me cringe even back then.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,883
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Feb 8, 2019 20:07:40 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty much agree with what's been mentioned so far.
I also want to include that the whole idea behind Eugene left me a little uneasy.
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Post by HisRoyalGreeness on Feb 8, 2019 20:25:13 GMT -5
Pretty much World Class from David’s death and beyond. We often talk about WWE’s lack of tact in some cases but they will never hold a candle to the way Fritz tried to turn tragedies into profit.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Feb 8, 2019 21:43:32 GMT -5
Airing the “Terrorist” segment the same day as the 7/7 bombings. I don’t buy for one second that WWE had no power to stop it airing, had there been a terror attack in the US that day there’s no way that segment would have aired. For me it’s not just this segment but the whole angle. The Muhammad Hassan character began as a fairly creative one, but just got progressively more and more lazy and racist, and by that point it was blatantly using horrible, divisive ethnic and religious stereotypes to garner heat. A real low point for a company that’s had many. They were really on the edge of something shockingly bold there in early post 9/11 America with the initial way the character was presented. A rare opportunity that they then decided to bury in jingoistic bullshit and then pretend never happened.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 8, 2019 21:57:19 GMT -5
I'll always go back to shortly after they botched the summer of Punk in WWE; I watched Raw for a few weeks to see how they'd handle the Punk angle, but backed out pretty quickly. Unfortunately, though, I was at the gym one night and one of the TVs had USA on and Raw was playing, and it just so happened to be the night they did the walkout angle with Triple H burying the entire roster, only to be joined by Cena, Sheamus, and Punk.
I've rarely been so angry watching a wrestling product, but good God was I glad to stop watching again at that point.
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Post by somsta on Feb 8, 2019 22:10:39 GMT -5
I don’t remember the exact situation, but there was a Raw segment where babyfaces Jerry Lawler and John Cena completely berated Vickie Guerrero for being ugly. It was so cringeworthy.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Feb 8, 2019 22:52:01 GMT -5
Yeah, the body shaming ones are ridiculous. First off, Molly and Mickie are gorgeous, so it was stupid right out of the gate. Second, body issues are a real problem for people, especially young girls, so doing that is basically shitting on young fans too. It doesn't matter if the face wins, there's already been weeks of, "You're fat! Haha!" stuff, and kids are going to copy that. And to adults, it comes off as a real asshole thing to do. And they won't ever learn their lesson, because they had Alexa do it to Nia. Yes ...like I said, it'd be worse if they brought back the Bertha Faye character, or tried to imitate McCarthy movie characters (naaaah, Vince would still be thinking Roseanne.... awkward...) But still... it's like I also said...with all the PC Babies incidents, why aren't more people defending PSW? Go figure. As for the reply to one of my posts, it works that way for women in entertainment, doesn't it? There's ones who start out different, start out boasting of being an alternative to todays norms and beauty standards. But eventually they conform, or fade away...
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Post by Friday Night SmackSown on Feb 9, 2019 0:52:53 GMT -5
Angles involving a wrestlers past drug addiction or alcoholism can be kind of disturbing. Jake Roberts vs Jerry Lawler comes to mind. The “drunk/drug addict Hawk” angle from late 1998 WWF that culminated in that awful bit with Hawk falling off the Titantron was rough.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 9, 2019 2:50:38 GMT -5
Triple H’s booking for wm 19.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 9, 2019 2:52:10 GMT -5
Angles involving a wrestlers past drug addiction or alcoholism can be kind of disturbing. Jake Roberts vs Jerry Lawler comes to mind. The “drunk/drug addict Hawk” angle from late 1998 WWF that culminated in that awful bit with Hawk falling off the Titantron was rough. The ironic part was that Hawk loved the angle. He said in a shoot that he thought it would make a great story if they showed him going to rehab. Animal said that he almost broke character and started laughing when Hawk tripped on the middle rope.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Feb 9, 2019 11:12:40 GMT -5
Angles involving a wrestlers past drug addiction or alcoholism can be kind of disturbing. Jake Roberts vs Jerry Lawler comes to mind. Shooting segments in real bars, having Lawler pour real whiskey on his face.... just really abhorrent stuff.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,914
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 9, 2019 15:30:26 GMT -5
VKM versus Christy Hemme is one of the worst angles a major wrestling company has ever run.
It produced bad matches, bad promos, bad comedy, and is unlikely to have contributed to even a single ticket sale. Our heroic faces, the insecure, whining misogynists who are upset that they don't have the black and green to milk anymore. Compelling television.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 9, 2019 16:14:08 GMT -5
Angles involving a wrestlers past drug addiction or alcoholism can be kind of disturbing. Jake Roberts vs Jerry Lawler comes to mind. Shooting segments in real bars, having Lawler pour real whiskey on his face.... just really abhorrent stuff. Or Austin pouring a beer on Scott Hall when he was taking antibuse. Hall was also an alcoholic btw. A multi million dollar company and they can’t afford to use something else?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 9, 2019 16:14:47 GMT -5
They were really on the edge of something shockingly bold there in early post 9/11 America with the initial way the character was presented. A rare opportunity that they then decided to bury in jingoistic bullshit and then pretend never happened. I might be in the minority, but it was always pretty clear to me that the Hassan character was always just a way for them to have a muslim heel while coyly maintaining plausible deniability about wanting a muslim heel. There's a lot of talk about body-shaming for women, but body-shaming for men is awfully shitty too. The worst thing I've ever seen on WWE TV was when dX explicitly mocked Chris Masters for not being on steroids anymore. dX is already insufferable, because their schtick was they could break the 4th wall and no one else could, but for them to trash a dude for having a healthier life and healthier body was grotesque. There was also a similar Wellness thing where they made Orton go out there in a suit that was way too big for him so everyone could make fun of him for losing muscle mass.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 9, 2019 16:20:54 GMT -5
Mike Graham exploiting his father’s death in order to advance his pathetic ass in the card.
Fritz Von Erich’s exploiting religion.
Pac-Man Jones’ TNA saga, complete with him recreating the “making it rain” bullshit that allegedly started the shootout on that stripclub.
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Post by jason1980s on Feb 9, 2019 16:45:00 GMT -5
The ironic part was that Hawk loved the angle. He said in a shoot that he thought it would make a great story if they showed him going to rehab. Animal said that he almost broke character and started laughing when Hawk tripped on the middle rope. Having worked with drug addicts and alcoholics, unfortunately this is a mentality of a drug addict. Whether they are happy with their lives or upset with their addiction, the lifestyle becomes a part of them they have to make a part of the other parts of their lives, for example the work aspect. Ultimately, their embracement of the lifestyle, even in recovery puts them in a deeper trouble and they can't get out and get back to their habits.
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