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Post by Citizen Snips on Feb 10, 2019 17:02:57 GMT -5
That is interesting. It’s a business and you gotta get yourself over but you don’t want to make your friend look bad. I see both sides of the coin But as the saying goes, "It's not show friends, it's show business." I doubt Kofi would have blamed Rollins if they told him he was getting squashed, he'd be pissed at the agents and Vince.
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Post by Aceorton on Feb 10, 2019 17:04:44 GMT -5
I know we're all "Vince is so f***ing incompetent" on here but what exactly is wrong with this? He booked a match one way, Rollins decided not to do it that way and got told to do it again. I'm not sure what exactly the huge issue is. Is it because it was Kofi, who I and pretty much everyone is a fan of? I mean, good on Rollins for not wanting to completely squash a friend/peer but still. From the anecdote as shared in the original post, it doesn't seem like Vince was at all clear that he wanted a complete squash of Kofi. Rollins just knew it was a "get-over" match, however that was to be interpreted. So, as a talented professional, he came up with a way to artistically accomplish what he thought was the objective while also not making Kofi look like complete garbage. Seems like Vince expects people to read his mind.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 10, 2019 17:08:58 GMT -5
I get where Vince is coming from but that philosophy didn't really work in that particular situation. Even though Rollins was getting a strong push he's not a monster like Braun Strowman. He's not someone that squashes people unless he's going against someone who is really low in the pecking order.
With him going against Kofi a guy about the same size and who also had credibility due to past accomplishments, I don't think a complete squash was really the way to go there even if Kofi wasn't doing that much. I think Seth had the right layout initially. Give Kofi some shine and then beat him decisively at the end . Doesn't completely bury Kofi but still emphasizes that Seth is the guy on the rise. Seth getting his hand raised and making such short work of a guy with a lot of past success puts him over a good bit regardless no matter how much percentage of offense he's getting.
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Feb 10, 2019 17:17:20 GMT -5
I know we're all "Vince is so f***ing incompetent" on here but what exactly is wrong with this? He booked a match one way, Rollins decided not to do it that way and got told to do it again. I'm not sure what exactly the huge issue is. Is it because it was Kofi, who I and pretty much everyone is a fan of? I mean, good on Rollins for not wanting to completely squash a friend/peer but still. From the anecdote as shared in the original post, it doesn't seem like Vince was at all clear that he wanted a complete squash of Kofi. Rollins just knew it was a "get-over" match, however that was to be interpreted. So, as a talented professional, he came up with a way to artistically accomplish what he thought was the objective while also not making Kofi look like complete garbage. Seems like Vince expects people to read his mind. That's a fair point and I'm not trying to shit on Rollins at all because I like the dude but he could've easily went to an agent or Vince himself and said "I don't wanna squash Kofi, let's give him some offense." Most of the time I agree that Vince is fickle and crazy but I'm not seeing it here. It was also at a time when Rollins was being set up to be the top guy so I imagine just deciding to do what he wants didn't sit well with Vince. This isn't the same Rollins now that has cemented himself and probably has a ton of leeway because he earned it and proved himself. Lots of other guys have talked about Vince loosening the grip when you prove you can follow instructions and stick to the plan.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Feb 11, 2019 12:25:46 GMT -5
Hey Vince, remember when you used to hire jobbers whose sole purpose it was to lose matches without getting any offence in to make another wrestler look awesome? That worked. Learn from your own company, dipshit! In retrospect, it made for boring television.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 12:45:51 GMT -5
How dare you try to make your coworkers look competent, you f***ing asshole! I can't imagine working for somebody like Vince. Besides the paycheck, the WWE sounds awful. Yet people in general complain all the time with 50/50 booking in the WWE. Tbh, I don't mind squash matches from time to time, even if the guy getting squashed already has accolades.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Feb 11, 2019 12:56:23 GMT -5
How dare you try to make your coworkers look competent, you f***ing asshole! I can't imagine working for somebody like Vince. Besides the paycheck, the WWE sounds awful. Yet people in general complain all the time with 50/50 booking in the WWE. Tbh, I don't mind squash matches from time to time, even if the guy getting squashed already has accolades. Exactly. Kofi pre-New Day was 1991 Tito Santana.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 16:07:12 GMT -5
I didn't understand, I didn't get it and Michael was trying to explain to me what Vince wanted out of the situation, and they ended up making me and Kofi have to go out and redo the match. And I remember the feeling when they told me that. I was so angry and embarrassed, and just ready to just walk out and not do it, cause I was like, never in my life! Never should this happen to me! But it was such a learning experience in retrospect that it's okay to screw up sometimes. That it's okay to try things and fail and learn from your mistakes, and as long as you improve your second time around, and don't make the same mistake twice, you're gonna be alright. This is just scary to follow. First half is natural and real, second half is like some chip in his head clicked on and he corrected his thinking and fell in line with his Stamford masters' prescribed logic.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 11, 2019 17:35:11 GMT -5
How dare you try to make your coworkers look competent, you f***ing asshole! I can't imagine working for somebody like Vince. Besides the paycheck, the WWE sounds awful. Yet people in general complain all the time with 50/50 booking in the WWE. Is this still a thing? I haven't heard anyone really complain about it for a long time, and usually when people bring it up, it's not used as a general complaint about the product, but rather as a counter to someone thinking a person's been buried.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 11, 2019 17:38:17 GMT -5
"DAMN IT ROLLINS, I TOLD YOU TO GET RID OF THOSE SIDEBURNS!!"
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Feb 11, 2019 19:39:57 GMT -5
Unfortunately squashes are part of wrestling and are necessary to get a guy to the next level. When they tried to build Zack Ryder, he beat Jack Swagger in ten seconds, ironically a year later Jack Swagger squashed Ryder in ten seconds. Just another example of wrestling's absurd, obsolete mindset. If you want your chosen guy to look good, and have him defeat someone, why would you not want your audience to think 'oh, I can see that my guy is good, because he's beaten an opponent who is obviously good too?' Because these freak, squash wins seem more like anomalies than proof that a guy is good. And Vince's micromanagement is ridiculous, but not at all unexpected. Why not trust your wrestlers? Why not tell them, 'you've got five minutes, Seth's winning and I want him to look really good.' Both Seth and Kofi are perfectly capable of making that happen. You guys aren't wrong if Vince was manager at walmart. But a pronoter tells you what to do and you do it Why is reaction to this as is but, everyone was almost overjoyed that cas was fired for going off script.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 11, 2019 20:06:21 GMT -5
Just another example of wrestling's absurd, obsolete mindset. If you want your chosen guy to look good, and have him defeat someone, why would you not want your audience to think 'oh, I can see that my guy is good, because he's beaten an opponent who is obviously good too?' Because these freak, squash wins seem more like anomalies than proof that a guy is good. And Vince's micromanagement is ridiculous, but not at all unexpected. Why not trust your wrestlers? Why not tell them, 'you've got five minutes, Seth's winning and I want him to look really good.' Both Seth and Kofi are perfectly capable of making that happen. You guys aren't wrong if Vince was manager at walmart. But a pronoter tells you what to do and you do it Why is reaction to this as is but, everyone was almost overjoyed that cas was fired for going off script. Cas big leagued a hired actor who was a non-wrestler. Each move or spot he did with someone who wasn't prepared for that came with a risk of injury. It was a stupid and unnecessary risk for the actor, it could have led to damages against the company if something had gone wrong, could adversely effect WWE's ability to use that booking agency in the future if a complaint were lodged... Of all the people to take liberties with, non-wrestling outsiders hired for just a quick one-night gig are tip top of the list. As opposed to a match where a guy just gave a little bit too much to his opponent but still delivered the desired outcome? Come on dude, that's weak.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Feb 11, 2019 20:44:17 GMT -5
You guys aren't wrong if Vince was manager at walmart. But a pronoter tells you what to do and you do it Why is reaction to this as is but, everyone was almost overjoyed that cas was fired for going off script. Cas big leagued a hired actor who was a non-wrestler. Each move or spot he did with someone who wasn't prepared for that came with a risk of injury. It was a stupid and unnecessary risk for the actor, it could have led to damages against the company if something had gone wrong, could adversely effect WWE's ability to use that booking agency in the future if a complaint were lodged... Of all the people to take liberties with, non-wrestling outsiders hired for just a quick one-night gig are tip top of the list. As opposed to a match where a guy just gave a little bit too much to his opponent but still delivered the desired outcome? Come on dude, that's weak. No thems the breaks from a trained pro myself. Promoter tells you what to do you so it
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 11, 2019 20:55:16 GMT -5
Cas big leagued a hired actor who was a non-wrestler. Each move or spot he did with someone who wasn't prepared for that came with a risk of injury. It was a stupid and unnecessary risk for the actor, it could have led to damages against the company if something had gone wrong, could adversely effect WWE's ability to use that booking agency in the future if a complaint were lodged... Of all the people to take liberties with, non-wrestling outsiders hired for just a quick one-night gig are tip top of the list. As opposed to a match where a guy just gave a little bit too much to his opponent but still delivered the desired outcome? Come on dude, that's weak. No thems the breaks from a trained pro myself. Promoter tells you what to do you so it That's cool, also not the part that people really care about when it comes to the distinction between the situations or what the real problem with what Cass did even was for a lot of people.
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