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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Feb 12, 2019 14:57:44 GMT -5
You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty The crowd? Or us. Because it seems like the majority of people who don’t want Charlotte in the match are us. Last night doesn’t count either as that’s clearly the narrative that they’re going for. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, Charlotte was very much over and beloved by the live crowds. They would Woo after every sentence that woman ever said. It's a little of both but she's got the same issue Roman and frankly many have. They do this 1 above all type booking and it matters not if they really need to be in said match. Roman kept getting title shot after title shot, He was in the finals of the Rumble multiple times and WM and still they never relented on his push despite it getting such negative feedback. Charlotte gets woos mostly off her name. She's fantastic but I have to wonder where she would be if not for her dad. She had a ready-made match in Asuka has to prove her title win wasn't a fluke and avenge the loss of her streak, Where are Charlotte has to prove she isn't slipping and is the only one who should hold the title. This 3-way smells of overbooking and a lack of confidence in Rondas ability to go the distance.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Feb 12, 2019 14:59:22 GMT -5
1: There is no need for that type of condescension. 2: Ronda getting cheered, lol, ok. We're just gonna pretend her getting frazzle during her promo wasn't from the boos didn't happen. 3: I assumed the storyline was Becky's road to redemption and validity as the man. Instead, it will be 'Let's get ready for Becky/Charlotte RD; 31 (Yes I would not be shocked to see Asuka bumped lower in a random match against Naomi or something. despite having a ready made reason to want to face Charlotte) 4: This is just another heel thing for heel sake so that can have that "Heat". Bruh...I just said God bless you and you said I'm being condescending to you. This is RIDICULOUS lmao. Why is it whenever people don't agree with someone on this forum and someone says "ok man" or "you do you" it's looked at as being condescending? My comment is the exact opposite of saying "screw you." You need to relax or just don't respond to me or even take it to PM because it sounds like you're thinking I'm taking a shot at you when the reality is nah, I don't agree with you but you do you. If you got a problem with that that's not working within these confines then hit me up in PM like the others I told to hit me up there. We're adults here.
For Ronda's popularity, if you really want to say that Ronda doesn't get cheers anymore then I've got actual videos proving she does get cheers. You're mentioning Ronda being frazzled in her promo against Becky...which proves my point on why Charlotte needs to be in this match which is (again) to prevent that...which proves my point on how anyone who goes against Becky gets booed and Ronda isn't depicted as a heel...which proves my point that Ronda isn't good in that position. Ronda is a face, she gets booed against Becky but from a storyline perspective Ronda's a face. Vince going against her is a face maneuver. Ronda saying she wants this match is a face move. She's clearly depicted as a face who's going against another way more popular face who gets her booed. Just because the crowd boos Ronda doesn't mean she's a heel, she's a face who gets booed. It's Roman Reigns all again.
So Roman was a heel huh?
To your next point, this story has had multiple different meanings. It's Becky's "rise to the top", it's Becky being a sidekick to Charlotte, it's "who will stop Ronda" and it's Charlotte being the evil mad queen. You're only focusing on one part which (again like I've said multiple times) you're only focusing on one thing. It's bigger than that one thing.
As for them trying to get heat, it works in this case because it helps Becky and it helps Charlotte. The "getting heat doesn't work anymore" comments are only false if it doesn't help anyone. If Becky doesn't get more cheers I'll agree but if she does? Then hey it's what I said.
Either way, it is what it is.
You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty Bruh, you missed the point of my post, again.
Jay's line ".38 revolve like the Sun around the Earth" was partially right. Yes, the .38 does revolve (as it's a Revolver) but the Sun does not revolve around the Earth. That in itself throws the entire line off axis (no pun). The "Charlotte is the female Roman Reigns" line is similar to this Jay line given yes, Charlotte does get pushed and she does get accolades like Roman does. However what makes the line false is everything else about it (the fact Charlotte gets embarrassed more than Reigns, Charlotte loses more than Reigns, Charlotte gets her comeuppance unlike Reigns, Charlotte isn't looked at as being the best all the time like Reigns) is completely false.
So no, the line doesn't work all the way through, it only works partially which, like Jay's line states, still proves the line incorrect. Like, I shouldn't have to break this dooooooowwwwwwnnnnnnnnn.
Imma leave this be. It's clear your getting agitated and just making wild statements just to do so.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:05:16 GMT -5
The crowd? Or us. Because it seems like the majority of people who don’t want Charlotte in the match are us. Last night doesn’t count either as that’s clearly the narrative that they’re going for. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, Charlotte was very much over and beloved by the live crowds. They would Woo after every sentence that woman ever said. It's a little of both but she's got the same issue Roman and frankly many have. They do this 1 above all type booking and it matters not if they really need to be in said match. Roman kept getting title shot after title shot, He was in the finals of the Rumble multiple times and WM and still they never relented on his push despite it getting such negative feedback. Charlotte gets woos mostly off her name. She's fantastic but I have to wonder where she would be if not for her dad. She had a ready-made match in Asuka has to prove her title win wasn't a fluke and avenge the loss of her streak, Where are Charlotte has to prove she isn't slipping and is the only one who should hold the title. This 3-way smells of overbooking and a lack of confidence in Rondas ability to go the distance. I just have a hard time believing that this new mad queen character who needs to beat Becky and cement her place on top would ultimately give up just to lose to asuka in the 4th or 3rd match on the Mania card. I just can’t picture it if the events were still to line up with how they currently are. She would’ve been fine without her dad. Her in ring skills and promo abilities on the heel side would’ve cemented it, I’m sure of it. To me, the difference between those two is that Roman was positioned to be a babyface for the next decade. In Charlotte’s case, shes been a heel, a babyface, and now a heel again. On top of that, she’s been made to look weak throughout this Becky feud. Hell, if anyone’s looking like Roman, it’s Becky due to the way she’s dropped her every single time they interacted.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 12, 2019 15:07:23 GMT -5
My response at the time was "f***ing finally." I wasn't happy per se, I was relieved that WWE was finally done yanking my chain. Which is a terrible business and creative strategy. But again, this has been WWE's main play for almost 15 years. It's tiresome, and ultimately the main reason I stopped watching. 'But HEEL' isn't exciting or entertaining. It makes narrative sense, sure, I guess, but who cares when I'm not excited or entertained by the stuff that's on TV or that I'm paying WWE for when it airs on the Network. Legit question: What DOES excite and interest you other than coherent narratives that make sense, involving characters with understandable motivations, and which are paid off climatically? That's, like... all I watch wrestling for. In this instance, a one-on-one title match as the final match of Wrestlemania, between the women's champion, Ronda Rousey, and the winner of the women's Royal Rumble match, Becky Lynch. Anything else is overkill. The funny thing is, WWE used to be really good at this kind of booking: Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Triple H, Brock Lesnar, Batista, even Chris Benoit, despite all the shenanigans leading up to the main event of Wrestlemania 20 (triple threat match, Shawn Michaels, switching brands, etc.). I know the company can book like this. Because I've seen it done. Repeatedly. I just don't understand why the company won't book like this. And if WWE won't book in a clear, concise way, because Lynch vs. Rousey is exactly the very kind of coherent narrative that makes sense, involves characters with understandable motivations, that would pay off climatically, which is exactly what you want, and I didn't even invoke the C-word once ('Charlotte'), then for right now, especially as a lapsed fan, I'm passing on Wrestlemania. Again.
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Post by Cela on Feb 12, 2019 15:12:10 GMT -5
they need to figure out better ways of creating heels, ones that arent playing on the fact the person is garbage in the ring, on the mic, as a person or isn't wanted in a particular angle because nobody wants to see a person in any of those categories get theor comeuppance and a face triumph over their nonsense, people just don't want to see it Charlotte isn’t bad though. She’s a good promo when she’s a heel and her in ring work is damn good. There’s her Sasha match on Raw, multiple Becky matches, all three triple threats, her match with Ronda, I can go on and on. Can we stop saying Charlotte is good on the mic? She sounds like a Stephanie bot learning to speak but having trouble with volume consistency. And all her promos come down to "Genetically superior, the queen, remember my dad's catchphrase, *off key half strength woo*"
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Feb 12, 2019 15:14:47 GMT -5
It's a little of both but she's got the same issue Roman and frankly many have. They do this 1 above all type booking and it matters not if they really need to be in said match. Roman kept getting title shot after title shot, He was in the finals of the Rumble multiple times and WM and still they never relented on his push despite it getting such negative feedback. Charlotte gets woos mostly off her name. She's fantastic but I have to wonder where she would be if not for her dad. She had a ready-made match in Asuka has to prove her title win wasn't a fluke and avenge the loss of her streak, Where are Charlotte has to prove she isn't slipping and is the only one who should hold the title. This 3-way smells of overbooking and a lack of confidence in Rondas ability to go the distance. I just have a hard time believing that this new mad queen character who needs to beat Becky and cement her place on top would ultimately give up just to lose to asuka in the 4th or 3rd match on the Mania card. I just can’t picture it if the events were still to line up with how they currently are. She would’ve been fine without her dad. Her in ring skills and promo abilities on the heel side would’ve cemented it, I’m sure of it. To me, the difference between those two is that Roman was positioned to be a babyface for the next decade. In Charlotte’s case, shes been a heel, a babyface, and now a heel again. On top of that, she’s been made to look weak throughout this Becky feud. Hell, if anyone’s looking like Roman, it’s Becky due to the way she’s dropped her every single time they interacted. I see where you're coming from. I get the mad queen jealousy vibe, it's a very good point I didn't consider Personally, I just don't see the need for a triple threat because let's say for argument sake Charlotte did go against Asuka in a 3rd. You could easily have her cut this full egotistical promo afterward saying she deserved the main spot, shes the best blah blah and have her become the center point of SD while building up new contenders. Meanwhile, Becky refreshes RAW as the man doing the same but as a babyface. Lastly and I don't want to jynx this, Somehow in all this Local woman Nia hasn't appeared...yet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:15:16 GMT -5
Charlotte isn’t bad though. She’s a good promo when she’s a heel and her in ring work is damn good. There’s her Sasha match on Raw, multiple Becky matches, all three triple threats, her match with Ronda, I can go on and on. Can we stop saying Charlotte is good on the mic? She sounds like a Stephanie bot learning to speak but having trouble with volume consistency. And all her promos come down to "Genetically superior, the queen, remember my dad's catchphrase, *off key half strength woo*" I don’t personally think she is and that simply boils down to a matter of opinion. I said she was good on the mic as a heel. Not a babyface. She sucks on the mic as a wholesome good guy, but as a heel she just knocks it out of the park to me. You’re free to think whatever you like, but I’m not gonna stop saying that Charlotte is good on the microphone but she really isn’t as bad as most paint her as when she’s a heel.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2019 15:20:45 GMT -5
Legit question: What DOES excite and interest you other than coherent narratives that make sense, involving characters with understandable motivations, and which are paid off climatically? That's, like... all I watch wrestling for. In this instance, a one-on-one title match as the final match of Wrestlemania, between the women's champion, Ronda Rousey, and the winner of the women's Royal Rumble match, Becky Lynch. Anything else is overkill. This isn't a story, though. This is just a match. "May the better woman win." There ISN'T much of a narrative there. The story is Lynch's determination, cleverness, and grit taking her above 'her prescribed level,' and that's beautifully reflecting how the woman's division has done the same thing by getting to main-event Wrestlemania. THAT is what has to be paid off. That kinda makes sense with Rousey, because UFC. But, the WWE is hesitant to admit Rousey has had unfair advantages (they have no such compulsion with Flair), and Rousey would have to go full heel, which she won't. I can't see Lynch's character arc getting a satisfying pay-off shaking hands with the respectful opponent Rousey who just wants to have a fair fight. Also, Charlotte would still be a narrative loose thread for Lynch. Becky never overthrew Steph's favorite. She cooouuuuuuld do that as champ, but that's messy... she's ABOVE Charlotte in kayfabe then.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Feb 12, 2019 15:28:50 GMT -5
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 12, 2019 15:29:35 GMT -5
In this instance, a one-on-one title match as the final match of Wrestlemania, between the women's champion, Ronda Rousey, and the winner of the women's Royal Rumble match, Becky Lynch. Anything else is overkill. This isn't a story, though. This is just a match. "May the better woman win." There ISN'T much of a narrative there. The story is Lynch's determination, cleverness, and grit taking her above 'her prescribed level,' and that's beautifully reflecting how the woman's division has done the same thing by getting to main-event Wrestlemania. THAT is what has to be paid off. That kinda makes sense with Rousey, because UFC. But, the WWE is hesitant to admit Rousey has had unfair advantages (they have no such compulsion with Flair), and Rousey would have to go full heel, which she won't. I can't see Lynch's character arc getting a satisfying pay-off shaking hands with the respectful opponent Rousey who just wants to have a fair fight. Also, Charlotte would still be a narrative loose thread for Lynch. Becky never overthrew Steph's favorite. She cooouuuuuuld do that as champ, but that's messy... she's ABOVE Charlotte in kayfabe then. Okay. But I gave you several examples of the very thing I'm talking about. All of whom had excellent storylines going into Wrestlemania. Presumably, WWE could also book a good storyline for Rousey vs. Lynch. They already have, minus all the extraneous stuff. And even if you feel that WWE hasn't done that with Rousey vs. Lynch right now, the company still could between now and Wrestlemania. If you're entertained by Rousey vs. Lynch vs. Charlotte, more power to you. I'm not. Which is why I'm passing on Wrestlemania. Moreover, I actually answered your question in terms of exactly what I want, and referenced specific examples of times when WWE did the very thing I want to see, which I feel were successful. Certainly history has proven them to be the case. And then you basically replied with, "no, you're wrong." Like, huh? Again, WWE used to book one way, which worked, it was well-tested, and now the company doesn't book that way, and I don't understand why, nor am I exactly entertained by it. I don't see what's so hard to understand about fans, like me, who feel this way. Unless we're being concern trolled that we're missing out on a great match or something to gaslight us to buy into the idea of a triple threat match?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:36:25 GMT -5
Can we stop saying Charlotte is good on the mic? She sounds like a Stephanie bot learning to speak but having trouble with volume consistency. And all her promos come down to "Genetically superior, the queen, remember my dad's catchphrase, *off key half strength woo*" I don’t personally think she is and that simply boils down to a matter of opinion. I said she was good on the mic as a heel. Not a babyface. She sucks on the mic as a wholesome good guy, but as a heel she just knocks it out of the park to me. You’re free to think whatever you like, but I’m not gonna stop saying that Charlotte is good on the microphone but she really isn’t as bad as most paint her as when she’s a heel. Yep, that's where I'm at. As a face Charlotte is bad on the mic, she's Roman levels of bad. As a heel though she's got that "preppy smart bitch who thinks she's better than you in every way" type of promo style to her. When she speaks she sounds like she's talking down to you so it meshes well with her character because that's really how those people talk. That's genius.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 16:05:45 GMT -5
Yeah, sure, it makes sense. That doesn't mean it's worth doing. I'm sick to f***ing death of Charlotte being crowbarred into EVERYTHING. And yes, I realize that's the story being told. Sure. But that doesn't make it any less frustrating to have Nepotism: The Wrestler crowbarred into every single thing in this division that catches the slightest bit of momentum. Particularly given there is zero novelty in Charlotte / Becky / ______ anymore because they've faced seemingly every woman in the company who at all matters (and Carmella) in one at some point, on top of their trillion matches with each other. It's worn out and it's tired. I normally hate this, but "I realize that's the story being told, but I'm mad at one of the participants" is kinda the ideal way of making a heel, right? You know she's gonna lose, so isn't she fun to boo in the meantime? No, because I don't want to watch her. I'd rather see the story proceed without her than have her be a factor in it, even if she's losing in the end. It's making me less interested in the match, not making me want to see her get her comeuppance.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 12, 2019 16:11:52 GMT -5
In this instance, a one-on-one title match as the final match of Wrestlemania, between the women's champion, Ronda Rousey, and the winner of the women's Royal Rumble match, Becky Lynch. Anything else is overkill. This isn't a story, though. This is just a match. "May the better woman win." There ISN'T much of a narrative there. But there absolutely should be, and if there isn't that's really a failure on the company's part. Starting from a base of "these are two of the baddest, toughest fighters on our roster, and they're going to tear things down at Mania" is only the beginning: from there you have Lynch and Rousey as characters evolve the story. How do their personalities mesh and clash? How should Rousey's character react to the crowd's love for Becky and the boos that could turn her way? In turn, what story does that mean they'll tell in their match? If you have fully developed characters, that's really all you need to do: pair them up, let their characters play off one another, and let the story grow organically from there; obviously there are other storyline considerations that bookers have to make (e.g. is the end goal getting Becky over?), but there's a gold mine here with just depicting Rousey as the final boss for Becky to overcome on her way to the top, given Rousey's very real fighting credentials and ability to look like a killer in the ring.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 12, 2019 17:10:22 GMT -5
Charlotte, don't turn face now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 17:45:08 GMT -5
Meh.
Rhonda vs. Becky should have been one on one. Becky deserved it.
But this is one of those rare storytelling builds where it just makes for sense as a triple threat. It’s been booked that way since Summerslam. Shoehorn Charlotte. Crazy but unbreakablr Rhonda. Everything is stacked against Becky. It’s a bigger match and probably a better one.
As long as WWE goes with the right outcome this could be one of the best storylines in ages. If it’s WWE’s “lol... Lesnar wins” booking. Everything will be for nothing.
Have Becky vs. Rhonda one on one at Backlash or on May 3rd... lol.
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Post by crowley1986 on Feb 12, 2019 17:53:43 GMT -5
Charlotte, don't turn face now. finish him off and then Frank the Clown next
He apparently tweeted her back grovelling "This was not intended as any disrespect to you Charlotte. Sorry if it came across that way. And no I haven’t yet but I will." and its gone it seems....god he's such an irritating douche...might've overtaken the clown prat
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 12, 2019 17:58:10 GMT -5
Hot take alert, bear with me making assumptions here...
I don't think they're putting in Charlotte because she's Charlotte in particular, that's just a benefit to keep her name strong too. And I don't think it has anything to do with Becky.
I think the reason is Ronda. 1. Keep her from the fan backlash so she doesn't have to go full heel, WWE doesn't seem to want that for her so here comes Charlotte to absorb it all.
2. Fear of Ronda flat out not being able to handle it.
Charlotte to me is just the safety net here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 18:00:43 GMT -5
Hypothetically, say the main event ends up being a single's match with Becky/Ronda. When do we get the next Charlotte/Ronda match that they've been teasing? Hot take alert, bear with me making assumptions here... I don't think they're putting in Charlotte because she's Charlotte in particular, that's just a benefit to keep her name strong too. And I don't think it has anything to do with Becky. I think the reason is Ronda. 1. Keep her from the fan backlash so she doesn't have to go full heel, WWE doesn't seem to want that for her so here comes Charlotte to absorb it all. 2. Fear of Ronda flat out not being able to handle it. Charlotte to me is just the safety net here. Sean Ross Sapp from Fightful said that he got confirmation last week that Ronda's definitely leaving after WM and the earliest she'll be back is at Survivor Series the earliest and that's if she's not having kids. Considering that the company supposedly doesn't want half of the participants in their first women's WM main event to be gone directly after.
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 18:00:54 GMT -5
Hot take alert, bear with me making assumptions here... I don't think they're putting in Charlotte because she's Charlotte in particular, that's just a benefit to keep her name strong too. And I don't think it has anything to do with Becky. I think the reason is Ronda. 1. Keep her from the fan backlash so she doesn't have to go full heel, WWE doesn't seem to want that for her so here comes Charlotte to absorb it all. 2. Fear of Ronda flat out not being able to handle it. Charlotte to me is just the safety net here. By all reports there is one reason for Charlotte to be there. They also want her to get the Ronda/Main Event Rub. it was the writing in the wall even before Ronda got heavily booed. Sometimes it is the simplest reasons
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 18:03:43 GMT -5
Hot take alert, bear with me making assumptions here... I don't think they're putting in Charlotte because she's Charlotte in particular, that's just a benefit to keep her name strong too. And I don't think it has anything to do with Becky. I think the reason is Ronda. 1. Keep her from the fan backlash so she doesn't have to go full heel, WWE doesn't seem to want that for her so here comes Charlotte to absorb it all. 2. Fear of Ronda flat out not being able to handle it. Charlotte to me is just the safety net here. By all reports there is one reason for Charlotte to be there. They also want her to get the Ronda/Main Event Rub. it was the writing in the wall even before Ronda got heavily booed. Sometimes it is the simplest reasons She’s just going to lose to Becky and we’ll all be singing kumbiya in the Mania threads anyways lol I see no problem with her being in it as she’ll add something to the already stacked matchup.
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