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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2019 14:16:16 GMT -5
Yeah, sure, it makes sense. That doesn't mean it's worth doing. I'm sick to f***ing death of Charlotte being crowbarred into EVERYTHING. And yes, I realize that's the story being told. Sure. But that doesn't make it any less frustrating to have Nepotism: The Wrestler crowbarred into every single thing in this division that catches the slightest bit of momentum. Particularly given there is zero novelty in Charlotte / Becky / ______ anymore because they've faced seemingly every woman in the company who at all matters (and Carmella) in one at some point, on top of their trillion matches with each other. It's worn out and it's tired. I normally hate this, but "I realize that's the story being told, but I'm mad at one of the participants" is kinda the ideal way of making a heel, right? You know she's gonna lose, so isn't she fun to boo in the meantime?
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Feb 12, 2019 14:17:58 GMT -5
-Text snipped for brevity- If that's what you took from that then God bless you. 1: There is no need for that type of condescension. 2: Ronda getting cheered, lol, ok. We're just gonna pretend her getting frazzle during her promo wasn't from the boos didn't happen. 3: I assumed the storyline was Becky's road to redemption and validity as the man. Instead, it will be 'Let's get ready for Becky/Charlotte RD; 31 (Yes I would not be shocked to see Asuka bumped lower in a random match against Naomi or something. despite having a ready made reason to want to face Charlotte) 4: This is just another heel thing for heel sake so that can have that "Heat".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 14:19:08 GMT -5
If Charlotte really was “woman Reigns,” don’t y’all think she would’ve beaten Becky at Evolution? Don’t y’all think she would’ve been the 1 to survive for team SDL at SSeries? Don’t y’all think she would’ve won the rumble? Dont y’all think they wouldn’t have turned her heel? And don’t y’all think they would’ve had Charlotte thwart Becky at every turn like Roman did to everyone that wasn’t named Brock Lesnar? If Charlotte was Female Roman Reigns she wouldn't be a heel right now and she also wouldn't be embarrassed as much as she's been these past 4 years and the same with her losing these matches that she's lost.
That whole "Female Roman Reigns" thing is like Jay when he said "38 revolves like the Sun around the Earth." Shit doesn't make any sense.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Feb 12, 2019 14:22:36 GMT -5
If Charlotte really was “woman Reigns,” don’t y’all think she would’ve beaten Becky at Evolution? Don’t y’all think she would’ve been the 1 to survive for team SDL at SSeries? Don’t y’all think she would’ve won the rumble? Dont y’all think they wouldn’t have turned her heel? And don’t y’all think they would’ve had Charlotte thwart Becky at every turn like Roman did to everyone that wasn’t named Brock Lesnar? If Charlotte was Female Roman Reigns she wouldn't be a heel right now and she also wouldn't be embarrassed as much as she's been these past 4 years and the same with her losing these matches that she's lost.
That whole "Female Roman Reigns" thing is like Jay when he said "38 revolves like the Sun around the Earth." Shit doesn't make any sense. You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 12, 2019 14:26:34 GMT -5
Granted I haven't watched WWE in ages, so I can't comment on who deserves to be in this match or not, but shouldn't the message here be "WWE are having a female main event at Wrestlemania"? That's beyond huge. Why get hung up on who's in the match? That's something that's making me consider ordering a WWE PPV for the first time in 3 years.
Shame the Saudi stuff almost negates that good will for me...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 14:27:11 GMT -5
If Charlotte was Female Roman Reigns she wouldn't be a heel right now and she also wouldn't be embarrassed as much as she's been these past 4 years and the same with her losing these matches that she's lost.
That whole "Female Roman Reigns" thing is like Jay when he said "38 revolves like the Sun around the Earth." Shit doesn't make any sense. You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty The crowd? Or us. Because it seems like the majority of people who don’t want Charlotte in the match are us. Last night doesn’t count either as that’s clearly the narrative that they’re going for. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, Charlotte was very much over and beloved by the live crowds. They would Woo after every sentence that woman ever said.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Feb 12, 2019 14:27:56 GMT -5
they need to figure out better ways of creating heels, ones that arent playing on the fact the person is garbage in the ring, on the mic, as a person or isn't wanted in a particular angle because nobody wants to see a person in any of those categories get theor comeuppance and a face triumph over their nonsense, people just don't want to see it
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 12, 2019 14:31:51 GMT -5
Yeah, sure, it makes sense. That doesn't mean it's worth doing. I'm sick to f***ing death of Charlotte being crowbarred into EVERYTHING. And yes, I realize that's the story being told. Sure. But that doesn't make it any less frustrating to have Nepotism: The Wrestler crowbarred into every single thing in this division that catches the slightest bit of momentum. Particularly given there is zero novelty in Charlotte / Becky / ______ anymore because they've faced seemingly every woman in the company who at all matters (and Carmella) in one at some point, on top of their trillion matches with each other. It's worn out and it's tired. I normally hate this, but "I realize that's the story being told, but I'm mad at one of the participants" is kinda the ideal way of making a heel, right? You know she's gonna lose, so isn't she fun to boo in the meantime?Not really. But this has been WWE's M.O. since the peak of Cena hate, and nothing has changed since then. Except the ratings numbers.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2019 14:33:11 GMT -5
If Charlotte was Female Roman Reigns she wouldn't be a heel right now and she also wouldn't be embarrassed as much as she's been these past 4 years and the same with her losing these matches that she's lost.
That whole "Female Roman Reigns" thing is like Jay when he said "38 revolves like the Sun around the Earth." Shit doesn't make any sense. You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty We were supposed to like it when Reigns was hand-picked and forced into an angle, and, most importantly, Reigns was probably going to win and everyone knew it. Charlotte is going to lose and everyone knows it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 14:33:35 GMT -5
they need to figure out better ways of creating heels, ones that arent playing on the fact the person is garbage in the ring, on the mic, as a person or isn't wanted in a particular angle because nobody wants to see a person in any of those categories get theor comeuppance and a face triumph over their nonsense, people just don't want to see it Charlotte isn’t bad though. She’s a good promo when she’s a heel and her in ring work is damn good. There’s her Sasha match on Raw, multiple Becky matches, all three triple threats, her match with Ronda, I can go on and on.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Feb 12, 2019 14:33:37 GMT -5
they need to figure out better ways of creating heels, ones that arent playing on the fact the person is garbage in the ring, on the mic, as a person or isn't wanted in a particular angle because nobody wants to see a person in any of those categories get theor comeuppance and a face triumph over their nonsense, people just don't want to see it sorry to quote myself but I dont know why im giving them advice here, I want them to fail, New York if you're reading this you're doing a great job and keep on doing it, thanks
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 14:35:40 GMT -5
You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty We were supposed to like it when Reigns was hand-picked and forced into an angle, and, most importantly, Reigns was probably going to win and everyone knew it. Charlotte is going to lose and everyone knows it. Exactly lmao there’s a clear distinction between Roman and Charlotte in 2019. Charlotte isn’t going to magically turn babyface. She’s a heel. Someone the audience is supposed to hate. This isn’t some new thing either. She’s been leaning this way since December. Plus, Charlotte was actually cheered by the crowd when she was a babyface who wasn’t going up against Becky whether we like it or not.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2019 14:45:23 GMT -5
I normally hate this, but "I realize that's the story being told, but I'm mad at one of the participants" is kinda the ideal way of making a heel, right? You know she's gonna lose, so isn't she fun to boo in the meantime?Not really. But this has been WWE's M.O. since the peak of Cena hate, and nothing has changed since then. Except the ratings numbers. But Charlotte is a HEEL. And if the story you want to tell is Lynch clawing her way up despite not being the chosen one, then Flair has to be there; it just makes sense. You have the two kinds of Chosens One: The person with pedigree within the wrestling industry, and the UFC outsider. Flair's leaning into her unfair advantage. Rousey resists it (and I don't trust them to book her this way, but for the story to FULLY make sense they should make her resort to depending on it when push comes to shove). Lynch hates both of them: she represents Getting Over On Your Own. The best analogy to this isn't Cena or Reigns; it's when HHH told Daniel Bryan he had to beat him to get into the main event title match at Wrestlemania. That was because Bryan had all the inertia, so he needed more obstacles to make his eventual success satisfying, and because if HHH wasn't there, he'd just be a loose thread that never got tied up.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Feb 12, 2019 14:46:56 GMT -5
Say what you want about her booking but Charlotte always puts on good matches. This should be a phenomenal triple threat. Becky will get the monster pop when she returns and wins. They're just stacking the deck. X Pac could still put on good matches but it doesn't mean that he was wanted on TV by a large chunk of the audience years back. Sometimes simpler is better and for a lot of people, myself included, this kills interest in the match. That “better match” argument doesn’t do a thing for me. You can argue that WWE’s in-ring product is the best it’s ever been. And all it’s lead to is dwindling ratings. Because match quality has never been a main catalyst in wrestling’s popularity. I don’t mind Charlotte being in the match, but I sure seem to be in the minority. Which makes this another example of WWE not giving fans what they want. And that’s a problem, same as it ever was.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 12, 2019 14:50:35 GMT -5
Not really. But this has been WWE's M.O. since the peak of Cena hate, and nothing has changed since then. Except the ratings numbers. But Charlotte is a HEEL. And if the story you want to tell is Lynch clawing her way up despite not being the chosen one, then Flair has to be there; it just makes sense. You have the two kinds of Chosens One: The person with pedigree within the wrestling industry, and the UFC outsider. Flair's leaning into her unfair advantage. Rousey resists it (and I don't trust them to book her this way, but for the story to FULLY make sense they should make her resort to depending on it when push comes to shove). Lynch hates both of them: she represents Getting Over On Your Own. The best analogy to this isn't Cena or Reigns; it's when HHH told Daniel Bryan he had to beat him to get into the main event title match at Wrestlemania. That was because Bryan had all the inertia, so he needed more obstacles to make his eventual success satisfying, and because if HHH wasn't there, he'd just be a loose thread that never got tied up.Eh, that took WWE jerking fans off for eight months, which included sidelining Bryan with Bray Wyatt in a feud that Bryan *lost*, despite that awesome moment on Raw when Bryan was doing YES! chants on top of the cage. My response at the time was "f***ing finally." I wasn't happy per se, I was relieved that WWE was finally done yanking my chain. Which is a terrible business and creative strategy. But again, this has been WWE's main play for almost 15 years. It's tiresome, and ultimately the main reason I stopped watching. 'But HEEL' isn't exciting or entertaining. It makes narrative sense, sure, I guess, but who cares when I'm not excited or entertained by the stuff that's on TV or that I'm paying WWE for when it airs on the Network.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Feb 12, 2019 14:52:06 GMT -5
Not really. But this has been WWE's M.O. since the peak of Cena hate, and nothing has changed since then. Except the ratings numbers. You have the two kinds of Chosens One Chosen Twos
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Post by RedSmile on Feb 12, 2019 14:55:14 GMT -5
You have the two kinds of Chosens One Chosen Twos ...Sweeeeeeet!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 14:55:47 GMT -5
-Text snipped for brevity- If that's what you took from that then God bless you. 1: There is no need for that type of condescension. 2: Ronda getting cheered, lol, ok. We're just gonna pretend her getting frazzle during her promo wasn't from the boos didn't happen. 3: I assumed the storyline was Becky's road to redemption and validity as the man. Instead, it will be 'Let's get ready for Becky/Charlotte RD; 31 (Yes I would not be shocked to see Asuka bumped lower in a random match against Naomi or something. despite having a ready made reason to want to face Charlotte) 4: This is just another heel thing for heel sake so that can have that "Heat". Bruh...I just said God bless you and you said I'm being condescending to you. This is RIDICULOUS lmao. Why is it whenever people don't agree with someone on this forum and someone says "ok man" or "you do you" it's looked at as being condescending? My comment is the exact opposite of saying "screw you." You need to relax or just don't respond to me or even take it to PM because it sounds like you're thinking I'm taking a shot at you when the reality is nah, I don't agree with you but you do you. If you got a problem with that that's not working within these confines then hit me up in PM like the others I told to hit me up there. We're adults here.
For Ronda's popularity, if you really want to say that Ronda doesn't get cheers anymore then I've got actual videos proving she does get cheers. You're mentioning Ronda being frazzled in her promo against Becky...which proves my point on why Charlotte needs to be in this match which is (again) to prevent that...which proves my point on how anyone who goes against Becky gets booed and Ronda isn't depicted as a heel...which proves my point that Ronda isn't good in that position. Ronda is a face, she gets booed against Becky but from a storyline perspective Ronda's a face. Vince going against her is a face maneuver. Ronda saying she wants this match is a face move. She's clearly depicted as a face who's going against another way more popular face who gets her booed. Just because the crowd boos Ronda doesn't mean she's a heel, she's a face who gets booed. It's Roman Reigns all again.
So Roman was a heel huh?
To your next point, this story has had multiple different meanings. It's Becky's "rise to the top", it's Becky being a sidekick to Charlotte, it's "who will stop Ronda" and it's Charlotte being the evil mad queen. You're only focusing on one part which (again like I've said multiple times) you're only focusing on one thing. It's bigger than that one thing.
As for them trying to get heat, it works in this case because it helps Becky and it helps Charlotte. The "getting heat doesn't work anymore" comments are only false if it doesn't help anyone. If Becky doesn't get more cheers I'll agree but if she does? Then hey it's what I said.
Either way, it is what it is.
If Charlotte was Female Roman Reigns she wouldn't be a heel right now and she also wouldn't be embarrassed as much as she's been these past 4 years and the same with her losing these matches that she's lost.
That whole "Female Roman Reigns" thing is like Jay when he said "38 revolves like the Sun around the Earth." Shit doesn't make any sense. You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty Bruh, you missed the point of my post, again.
Jay's line ".38 revolve like the Sun around the Earth" was partially right. Yes, the .38 does revolve (as it's a Revolver) but the Sun does not revolve around the Earth. That in itself throws the entire line off axis (no pun). The "Charlotte is the female Roman Reigns" line is similar to this Jay line given yes, Charlotte does get pushed and she does get accolades like Roman does. However what makes the line false is everything else about it (the fact Charlotte gets embarrassed more than Reigns, Charlotte loses more than Reigns, Charlotte gets her comeuppance unlike Reigns, Charlotte isn't looked at as being the best all the time like Reigns) is completely false.
So no, the line doesn't work all the way through, it only works partially which, like Jay's line states, still proves the line incorrect. Like, I shouldn't have to break this dooooooowwwwwwnnnnnnnnn.
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 14:55:56 GMT -5
You don't see how their hand-picked person who is forced into every main event despite the Crowd not wanting it like Roman? Alrighty The crowd? Or us. Because it seems like the majority of people who don’t want Charlotte in the match are us. Last night doesn’t count either as that’s clearly the narrative that they’re going for. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, Charlotte was very much over and beloved by the live crowds. They would Woo after every sentence that woman ever said. An the 80% dislike in the Charlotte reveal. And no,its not because she is a heel. It is more up to you guys prove people WANT Charlotte in this spot. In fact she only got good reactions when she wasnt being shoved as the ultimate winner.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2019 14:56:28 GMT -5
But Charlotte is a HEEL. And if the story you want to tell is Lynch clawing her way up despite not being the chosen one, then Flair has to be there; it just makes sense. You have the two kinds of Chosens One: The person with pedigree within the wrestling industry, and the UFC outsider. Flair's leaning into her unfair advantage. Rousey resists it (and I don't trust them to book her this way, but for the story to FULLY make sense they should make her resort to depending on it when push comes to shove). Lynch hates both of them: she represents Getting Over On Your Own. My response at the time was "f***ing finally." I wasn't happy per se, I was relieved that WWE was finally done yanking my chain. Which is a terrible business and creative strategy. But again, this has been WWE's main play for almost 15 years. It's tiresome, and ultimately the main reason I stopped watching. 'But HEEL' isn't exciting or entertaining. It makes narrative sense, sure, I guess, but who cares when I'm not excited or entertained by the stuff that's on TV or that I'm paying WWE for when it airs on the Network. Legit question: What DOES excite and interest you other than coherent narratives that make sense, involving characters with understandable motivations, and which are paid off climatically? That's, like... all I watch wrestling for.
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