What came first? The gimmick or the wrestler?

[Zen411]

Especially in the early 90s, Vince and company loved to create these over the top gimmicks that often were more memorable than the actual performer. The elaborate costume designs, the moonlight occupation gimmicks like race car driver, plumber, garbage man. We all know about konnan ditching max moon and them giving it to a mediocre performer because he fit the suit.

Leads me to ask which gimmicks were invented before they had a wrestler to play it and which were crafted with the wrestler already signed in mind? Razor? Undertaker? Phantasio? Mantaur? Sparky plugg? Man mountain rock? Etc.

[Joe Neglia]

Depends on the wrestler and gimmick. With Razor, Hall came first and he suggested the gimmick to McMahon. With Undertaker, the gimmick came first, with McMahon calling Mark for the first time and allegedly asking "Is this my Undertaker?"

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

They met the guy first and after the first couple of conversations, they found his backstory and what he’s into.

It’s funny, at the beginning, Vince wasn’t impressed with Mark Callaway because he claimed that Mark was just a big red headed kid with no presence and that he had nothing special to offer, then after looking at one of his pictures, Vince made the comment that he looked like the mortician from the western movies, kinda like an Undertaker. The rest is history.

Curt Hennig got the Perfect gimmick because Pat Patterson joked around that Curt was good at darts, baseball, football, golf, horseshoes, that Curt was just perfect at everything.

Then on the other hand, Vince thought that Terry Taylor was an arrogant guy and looked like the rooster of a farm...

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Feb 13, 2019 21:53:38 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Depends on the wrestler and gimmick. With Razor, Hall came first and he suggested the gimmick to McMahon. With Undertaker, the gimmick came first, with McMahon calling Mark for the first time and allegedly asking "Is this my Undertaker?"

It’s Prichard so it may be bullshit, but he claims that he only pitched for a bodyguard that was a “dark character” that wore black and was the opposite of Brother Love. The Undertaker concept came after Vince saw a picture of Mark.

[Mozenrath]

Feb 13, 2019 22:02:10 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

Feb 13, 2019 21:53:38 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Depends on the wrestler and gimmick. With Razor, Hall came first and he suggested the gimmick to McMahon. With Undertaker, the gimmick came first, with McMahon calling Mark for the first time and allegedly asking "Is this my Undertaker?"

It’s Prichard so it may be bullshit, but he claims that he only pitched for a bodyguard that was a “dark character” that wore black and was the opposite of Brother Love. The Undertaker concept came after Vince saw a picture of Mark.

I'd figure Bruce would be telling the truth if he's basically giving up credit. Like, it'd be weird to lie to make himself look less good.

Not a wrestler, but Paul Bearer fits, given they brought in Percy Pringle III for the interview, and Vince reads his resume, laughing, having had no idea he had legitimate mortuary experience, since he was already going to be playing a funeral director. Then again, I don't know if anyone else had even been considered, but it being the early-early 90s, I'm sure there were some other managers kicking about to consider.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Feb 13, 2019 22:11:11 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Feb 13, 2019 22:02:10 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

It’s Prichard so it may be bullshit, but he claims that he only pitched for a bodyguard that was a “dark character” that wore black and was the opposite of Brother Love. The Undertaker concept came after Vince saw a picture of Mark.

I'd figure Bruce would be telling the truth if he's basically giving up credit. Like, it'd be weird to lie to make himself look less good.

Not a wrestler, but Paul Bearer fits, given they brought in Percy Pringle III for the interview, and Vince reads his resume, laughing, having had no idea he had legitimate mortuary experience, since he was already going to be playing a funeral director. Then again, I don't know if anyone else had even been considered, but it being the early-early 90s, I'm sure there were some other managers kicking about to consider.

Prichard also gave credit to Bearer, that he was a much better manager and performer than him. That while Brother Love didn’t fit with Undertaker, Paul Bearer was tailor made for that character after they learned that he was a mortician in real life.

Another awful first meeting with Vince? Colt Cabana. Cabana pitched to Vince that he wanted to be a Judd Apatow-Andy Samberg type of comedic character, Vince had no idea who Judd Apatow or Samberg was, so he asked Cabana if he was jewish, Colt said yes and Vince decided to make him an ethnic character...

[petef3]

Man Mountain Rock, Mantaur, and Phantasio basically came pre-packaged with the wrestler. Mike Hallick showed up for his tryout with his bull head, Phantasio had been doing a similar gimmick already in the USWA as the Spellbinder (though usually as a heel, and he didn't do magic during his matches, just for his entrance) and was clearly a practiced magician. Rock is fairly obvious--he was a legitimate guitar player, but he was "lightened up" considerably because Maxx Payne was considered too similar to the Undertaker.

I haven't read Holly's book, but didn't he legitimately dabble in stock car racing?

[petef3]

On the other hand, we know "the Ringmaster" was a gimmick that they'd been sitting on for years before it went to Steve Austin--wwe.com has a concept sketch of a similar gimmick being proposed for Bryan Clarke, of all people. From the moment the Big Boss Man turned face, Ted DiBiase and various other heels would accuse him of abusing prisoners, which makes me wonder how long they had the concept for Nailz in mind. I'd bet, just on a gut feeling, it was at least a year or more before he debuted.

[Venti]

I think the concept of Kane came about before they decided Glenn Jacobs would be the guy for the part.

[Mozenrath]

Feb 14, 2019 18:22:56 GMT -5 Venti said:

I think the concept of Kane came about before they decided Glenn Jacobs would be the guy for the part.

I think so, though he'd have probably been the first choice. Undertaker, Bearer, and Cornette had already taken an interest in Glenn, and knew he'd be a huge money maker with some more experience. I kinda assume Yankem and Diesel 2 were always intended to be filler in the meantime.