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Post by DASH 243✅ on Feb 24, 2019 20:47:53 GMT -5
The one that drove me completely insane was the Ivelisse vs. Lei'D Tapa match from Gut Check. Ivelisse tapped her out totally clean and looked impressive and then the judges picked Tapa instead! It goes to show you that they were horribly exposing the business (in a bad way) because any logical look at such a match result would mean that you'd pick Ivelisse. If they wanted to pick Tapa, why not book her to actually win and look impressive? And Snow's justification for signing her? "She's taller than the rest" Also his known love of ass capes |
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Post by romanstylesiii on Feb 24, 2019 21:08:29 GMT -5
How did he got on the show?? I literally can find next to nothing about him online. Like it was a MySpace page and a match against Brain Christopher 8 years ago |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 24, 2019 22:11:56 GMT -5
How did he got on the show?? I literally can find next to nothing about him online. Like it was a MySpace page and a match against Brain Christopher 8 years ago I think he was a Team 3d guy and he got a tryout as a favor to them. If you believe guys that were in TNA at the time, they said the original idea was more of a tournament of indy guys competing for a contract. But since it was a Jeff Jarrett idea, the people in charge at the time crapped all over it and changed it to what it was to the point that guys involved with TNA would tell indy wrestlers to not do the Gutcheck if asked because it was a scam... Luke Hawk actually told a story of AJ getting mad at him for doing Gutcheck rather than going through him to get a tryout. |
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
Patti Mayonnaise
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BAU BAU
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Feb 24, 2019 23:11:14 GMT -5
I watched that entire match exactly one time and decided that Kris Lewie was one of the all-time worst wrestlers I had ever seen. ONE MINUTE IN. |
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Post by cabbageboy on Feb 24, 2019 23:16:30 GMT -5
I remember that Kris Lewie match. I'd rather not, but I do. But it was really the Ivelisse/Tapa deal that infuriated me and made me think these people had no idea what they were doing. I mean it was seriously "Hey, she's big!" as the reason they signed Tapa there. What kind of message does that send when someone can decisively win via tap out and it is the opponent who gets a contract? How did TNA not go under the next week? It's worse than wins and losses don't matter. It's actively rewarding the loser, haha.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Feb 25, 2019 0:19:52 GMT -5
How did he got on the show?? I literally can find next to nothing about him online. Like it was a MySpace page and a match against Brain Christopher 8 years ago I think he was a Team 3d guy and he got a tryout as a favor to them. If you believe guys that were in TNA at the time, they said the original idea was more of a tournament of indy guys competing for a contract. But since it was a Jeff Jarrett idea, the people in charge at the time crapped all over it and changed it to what it was to the point that guys involved with TNA would tell indy wrestlers to not do the Gutcheck if asked because it was a scam... Luke Hawk actually told a story of AJ getting mad at him for doing Gutcheck rather than going through him to get a tryout. Dixie: See I told you Jeff Jarrett is an idiot, sug! |
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Post by No One on Feb 25, 2019 0:27:50 GMT -5
It's one of those ideas I can't even say was good in theory but bad in execution; in theory it was kinda weird and nonsensical too, especially with how allergic TNA was to actual fan input while constantly trying to find ways to seek fan input. A mess of contradictions made only worse by how they tried to blend kayfabe and reality in one of the worst ways: flat contract negotiation and talent evaluation. That just never makes for good TV. They never got the "secret" of Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday, which was that WWE would not mess with the results of the voting, but could reasonably expect to know what would win due to the choices having a clear fan favorite already. Like, "hmm, three possible special referees, Orton, HBK, and Stone Cold Steve Ausin, a guy they don't see weekly and who is heads and shoulders more popular than them both. Wonder who they'll pick?" I remember either Jericho or Shelton saying they legitimately didn't know they'd be having an IC title match, so if the voting was rigged, it was above their paygrade, and not really worth rigging if you're not even going to tell the workers the result. Yeah, the match choices would be something like a streetfight, an arm wrestling match, or a verbal debate |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 25, 2019 1:21:41 GMT -5
They never got the "secret" of Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday, which was that WWE would not mess with the results of the voting, but could reasonably expect to know what would win due to the choices having a clear fan favorite already. Like, "hmm, three possible special referees, Orton, HBK, and Stone Cold Steve Ausin, a guy they don't see weekly and who is heads and shoulders more popular than them both. Wonder who they'll pick?" I remember either Jericho or Shelton saying they legitimately didn't know they'd be having an IC title match, so if the voting was rigged, it was above their paygrade, and not really worth rigging if you're not even going to tell the workers the result. Yeah, the match choices would be something like a streetfight, an arm wrestling match, or a verbal debate I voted for Verbal Debate and forced all of my friends to as well... It was clearly rigged!  |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 25, 2019 1:40:39 GMT -5
It's one of those ideas I can't even say was good in theory but bad in execution; in theory it was kinda weird and nonsensical too, especially with how allergic TNA was to actual fan input while constantly trying to find ways to seek fan input. A mess of contradictions made only worse by how they tried to blend kayfabe and reality in one of the worst ways: flat contract negotiation and talent evaluation. That just never makes for good TV. They never got the "secret" of Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday, which was that WWE would not mess with the results of the voting, but could reasonably expect to know what would win due to the choices having a clear fan favorite already. Like, "hmm, three possible special referees, Orton, HBK, and Stone Cold Steve Ausin, a guy they don't see weekly and who is heads and shoulders more popular than them both. Wonder who they'll pick?" I remember either Jericho or Shelton saying they legitimately didn't know they'd be having an IC title match, so if the voting was rigged, it was above their paygrade, and not really worth rigging if you're not even going to tell the workers the result. More importantly, you give the fans something minor to vote for, somethingthat can be worked around without making the audience feel like it's all pointless. Match stipulations, filler opponents, stuff that's really easy to make work without messing up your plans. TNA was trying to put that shit onto their hiring practices, which is a recipe for disaster if you don't want to hire everyone involved, but they would also do stuff like their fan-based #1 contender ranking, which they promptly killed off and which Bischoff then shit all over fans in interviews because of, because it wasn't going how they wanted it to. TNA botched the entire point of fan voting as a way to create the illusion of participation, while WWE knew how to play around and work the needed tricks. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 25, 2019 1:45:28 GMT -5
They never got the "secret" of Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday, which was that WWE would not mess with the results of the voting, but could reasonably expect to know what would win due to the choices having a clear fan favorite already. Like, "hmm, three possible special referees, Orton, HBK, and Stone Cold Steve Ausin, a guy they don't see weekly and who is heads and shoulders more popular than them both. Wonder who they'll pick?" I remember either Jericho or Shelton saying they legitimately didn't know they'd be having an IC title match, so if the voting was rigged, it was above their paygrade, and not really worth rigging if you're not even going to tell the workers the result. More importantly, you give the fans something minor to vote for, somethingthat can be worked around without making the audience feel like it's all pointless. Match stipulations, filler opponents, stuff that's really easy to make work without messing up your plans. TNA was trying to put that shit onto their hiring practices, which is a recipe for disaster if you don't want to hire everyone involved, but they would also do stuff like their fan-based #1 contender ranking, which they promptly killed off and which Bischoff then shit all over fans in interviews because of, because it wasn't going how they wanted it to. TNA botched the entire point of fan voting as a way to create the illusion of participation, while WWE knew how to play around and work the needed tricks. Yeah the fan voted rankings... Oh you wanted Desmonde Wolfe to win... let's ahve him get jobbed out immediately... so we can push Abyss as Hulk Lantern... and promptly drop this and never mention it again. |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 25, 2019 3:52:20 GMT -5
They never got the "secret" of Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday, which was that WWE would not mess with the results of the voting, but could reasonably expect to know what would win due to the choices having a clear fan favorite already. Like, "hmm, three possible special referees, Orton, HBK, and Stone Cold Steve Ausin, a guy they don't see weekly and who is heads and shoulders more popular than them both. Wonder who they'll pick?" I remember either Jericho or Shelton saying they legitimately didn't know they'd be having an IC title match, so if the voting was rigged, it was above their paygrade, and not really worth rigging if you're not even going to tell the workers the result. More importantly, you give the fans something minor to vote for, somethingthat can be worked around without making the audience feel like it's all pointless. Match stipulations, filler opponents, stuff that's really easy to make work without messing up your plans. TNA was trying to put that shit onto their hiring practices, which is a recipe for disaster if you don't want to hire everyone involved, but they would also do stuff like their fan-based #1 contender ranking, which they promptly killed off and which Bischoff then shit all over fans in interviews because of, because it wasn't going how they wanted it to. TNA botched the entire point of fan voting as a way to create the illusion of participation, while WWE knew how to play around and work the needed tricks. Of course, if you try to get too cute with the fan voting concept, you work your way into this hot mess.  |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 25, 2019 4:08:22 GMT -5
More importantly, you give the fans something minor to vote for, somethingthat can be worked around without making the audience feel like it's all pointless. Match stipulations, filler opponents, stuff that's really easy to make work without messing up your plans. TNA was trying to put that shit onto their hiring practices, which is a recipe for disaster if you don't want to hire everyone involved, but they would also do stuff like their fan-based #1 contender ranking, which they promptly killed off and which Bischoff then shit all over fans in interviews because of, because it wasn't going how they wanted it to. TNA botched the entire point of fan voting as a way to create the illusion of participation, while WWE knew how to play around and work the needed tricks. Of course, if you try to get too cute with the fan voting concept, you work your way into this hot mess. Once WWE decided they had to put fan involvement onto every show as some kind of awful way to boost ratings (it didn't work), they got way too cute with it. It's a trick they could get away with for like a yearly-or-less PPV, but every Raw needing it was bound to end in this uninspired disaster. |
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 25, 2019 8:24:29 GMT -5
Lol they wanted to do Taz against Joey Ryan despite Taz being because of injuries, the best part? They didn’t run it past Taz and they actually expected him to just wrestle again, that’s why they had to switch it to Al Snow at the last minute.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 9:20:25 GMT -5
With Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday they additionally ran with the plans they had for match results even if the votes didn't reflect what the company hoped for.
2 examples come to mind. Piper teaming with Flair when they clearly wanted Dusty. It was around the time his DVD came out and they were pushing hard for him to win but Piper got the vote and it segued into their tag title run (the whole deal inadvertently saving Roddy's life at the time).
The other was when for one reason or another, the company was clearly pushing for JBL to team with Rey (I think they wanted an enemies as teammates deal to lead into or further a feud, I forget the timescale exactly, and obviously they were 2 of Smackdown's biggest stars at the time) but Matt Hardy won the vote. Hardy and Rey were a great team too, breaking out Hardy Poetry in motion spots and the like.
TNA just ignored what they didn't like rather than making lemonade.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Feb 25, 2019 11:01:20 GMT -5
More importantly, you give the fans something minor to vote for, somethingthat can be worked around without making the audience feel like it's all pointless. Match stipulations, filler opponents, stuff that's really easy to make work without messing up your plans. TNA was trying to put that shit onto their hiring practices, which is a recipe for disaster if you don't want to hire everyone involved, but they would also do stuff like their fan-based #1 contender ranking, which they promptly killed off and which Bischoff then shit all over fans in interviews because of, because it wasn't going how they wanted it to. TNA botched the entire point of fan voting as a way to create the illusion of participation, while WWE knew how to play around and work the needed tricks. Yeah the fan voted rankings... Oh you wanted Desmonde Wolfe to win... let's ahve him get jobbed out immediately... so we can push Abyss as Hulk Lantern... and promptly drop this and never mention it again.
That was more WWE than the WWE itself, Bischoff pissing off in the IWC on purpose...
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Rave
El Dandy
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Post by Rave on Feb 27, 2019 14:23:34 GMT -5
So I failed to mention this in my other post in this thread, but during my visit to the Gut Check archive, I recognized a few more names. I hypothesize now that TNA had the potential to head off at least part of the NXT-UK monopoly and ally with ICW in the process through both Lionheart and Red Lightning. Of course, since TNA were utter morons with the Gut Check thing as a whole, we'll never know if that actually could've happened.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 14:59:45 GMT -5
So I failed to mention this in my other post in this thread, but during my visit to the Gut Check archive, I recognized a few more names. I hypothesize now that TNA had the potential to head off at least part of the NXT-UK monopoly and ally with ICW in the process through both Lionheart and Red Lightning. Of course, since TNA were utter morons with the Gut Check thing as a whole, we'll never know if that actually could've happened. The problem with Gut Check was that, in the end, it wasn't designed to introduce aspiring talent to the TNA audience. The concept was to introduce everyone to Wes Brisco, the most absurd lump of muscles known to man. TNA figured that WWE didn't know what they were missing out when the son of Gerald Brisco was dropped by them, unaware about how awful he was in FCW. |
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Feb 27, 2019 15:09:33 GMT -5
So I failed to mention this in my other post in this thread, but during my visit to the Gut Check archive, I recognized a few more names. I hypothesize now that TNA had the potential to head off at least part of the NXT-UK monopoly and ally with ICW in the process through both Lionheart and Red Lightning. Of course, since TNA were utter morons with the Gut Check thing as a whole, we'll never know if that actually could've happened. I made some posts years ago suggesting that TNA head off to Europe and become THE promotion there as they were losing steam in the US. The fan base was there and was eventually split up by ICW, PROGRESS, and RevPro. Although it may not have worked out for TNA and it would have necessitated a near complete revamp/reboot it is at least one path that would have been better than the zombie of a promotion it has become. |
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shark on Feb 27, 2019 16:53:54 GMT -5
It's one of those ideas I can't even say was good in theory but bad in execution; in theory it was kinda weird and nonsensical too, especially with how allergic TNA was to actual fan input while constantly trying to find ways to seek fan input. A mess of contradictions made only worse by how they tried to blend kayfabe and reality in one of the worst ways: flat contract negotiation and talent evaluation. That just never makes for good TV. I think it could have worked, but they just had no idea of what to do. Their selection of talent was horrible. They chose people who flat out did not belong on TV. They did almost nothing with the talent, they all just got shuttled to OVW and got stranded there. Then all the matches were the exact same. Gut Check talent gets beaten up for 90% of the match. They make a 15 second comeback, then get beat. Whole thing is over in 4 minutes. There was a great great talent pool of independent wrestlers at the time to pick from and they chose the worst ones. To top it off, they also chose bad wrestlers to wrestle the Gut Check guys. Robbie E, God bless him, is a bad wrestler. Gunner was terrible then. You're putting bad workers with very very green guys, the matches were train wrecks! |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 27, 2019 17:03:00 GMT -5
More importantly, you give the fans something minor to vote for, somethingthat can be worked around without making the audience feel like it's all pointless. Match stipulations, filler opponents, stuff that's really easy to make work without messing up your plans. TNA was trying to put that shit onto their hiring practices, which is a recipe for disaster if you don't want to hire everyone involved, but they would also do stuff like their fan-based #1 contender ranking, which they promptly killed off and which Bischoff then shit all over fans in interviews because of, because it wasn't going how they wanted it to. TNA botched the entire point of fan voting as a way to create the illusion of participation, while WWE knew how to play around and work the needed tricks. Of course, if you try to get too cute with the fan voting concept, you work your way into this hot mess. In fairness, if any booker in the 21st century paid attention to what 'no holds barred' was meant to mean, and if street fights had consistent rules (falls needing to be in the ring varies from promotion to promotion or, if you're WWE, show to show) these are actually three separate match types. Dumb as shit anyway, mind. |
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