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Post by Deputy Muscle on Feb 28, 2019 14:58:53 GMT -5
Anytime I look back on 1995 WWF it makes me wonder how they managed to stay in business. Just wall to wall garbage with a very occasional bright spark.
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Post by jason1980s on Feb 28, 2019 15:11:17 GMT -5
Turning him heel was a bad move as he was terrible in that role and as a result I think it negatively effected how he's remembered. Same thing happened to Tatanka who was pretty effective as a midcard face and then just got super lazy and lethargic once he turned heel. However as a midcard face I agree that Savio was very underrated. Great fire, always worked hard, and pretty much always put on a good match. He was basically like early 90's Tito Santana except that he could actually win some big matches here and there. It also seems like Savio was a very respected guy in the locker room. Austin, JBL, and Goldust have all given him a lot of credit and praise in doing a lot to help them along and get their footing in the company as they were all booked in programs against Savio early in their runs. Knowing that it makes his heel turn even more dumb. If the new heels like working with him so much and he's doing such a good job putting them over then why switch him? I can imagine Tatanka not liking the heel turn and it showing in his performance. He is legitimately a nice guy and respectful to fans so I would think having to play the character turning on the fans for the money would be something that hurt him personally. Plus it didn't seem like much was in the plans for him once he turned so he probably felt his best days were behind him. I think Savio is another guy who is pretty nice so he might not have put as much into the heel run though I think he did pretty good for what he was given during that time period. It's funny you mention both of them together because they were two of my favorites during their initial runs. I liked Tatanka from 1992-1994 and Savio from 1995-1997.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 16:03:49 GMT -5
Why do people have a hard time believing that Vince McMahon would look at a guy who's 6'5 450 lbs and think "God damn that guy's gonna be my next top heel."? It's Vince McMahon. It's what he does. It's not having a hard time believing, but rather processing the logic. When Yokozuna came into the company in 1992 after stints in the AWA and indies, there was a monster who could move and also look scary to the audience because of his mobility. Mabel was just fat. And sloppy. The other problem was, it was still two years after Hulk Hogan left the WWF and Vince was still trying to recapture Hulkamania (with Bret Hart being the "Break Glass in Case of Emergency" option, as always), and Diesel, rather than being put into a role that Kevin Nash was natural in, which we have seen in the nWo and in TNA, pushed him into the same slot that had failed with Lex Luger back in late 1993. And, still with the Hulk Hogan mindset in mind, Vince wanted to see the babyface overcome monsters. Except, Nash was a tall dude, and seeing him take on monsters (and working as the face, at that) would result in awful matches. Working with terrible performers would make those matches worse. That being said, looking at the 1995 roster around King of the Ring, and also based upon who the Kliq liked or (most importantly) didn't like, Vince's options were limited. Logic would have dictated a guy like Bam Bam Bigelow should be an opponent for Diesel, given he main evented WrestleMania, but because he (kayfabe) lost to a non-wrestler and (real life) didn't care for the Kliq's bullshit, he wasn't going to be in a title program. They had already done a program with Sid, given he was Shawn's bodyguard replacement, and Sid was being downgraded to the IC belt hunt now that he was part of the Million Dollar job squad (which included other people that couldn't be taken seriously like IRS and King Kong Bundy). It would be a few months before they would turn Davey Boy Smith and put him with Camp Cornette. So... they went Butterball. The only other person I'd remotely consider, either in the PPV or a qualifier match, would have been Kama... except he was a Million Dollar Corporation member, and I already made it clear every member was pathetic.
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Post by jason1980s on Feb 28, 2019 16:18:55 GMT -5
Mabel was just fat. And sloppy. It shocks me that he kept being brought back. They had him for one day in 1998 and then full time from 1999 on. Yet he was the same poor worker just with worse gimmicks. I'm guessing he was a good sport and did what was asked and was respectful to other workers or a locker room leader type (without the silly wrestler's court gimmick or bullying/purposely hurting your opponent).
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 28, 2019 16:46:48 GMT -5
Turning him heel was a bad move as he was terrible in that role and as a result I think it negatively effected how he's remembered. Same thing happened to Tatanka who was pretty effective as a midcard face and then just got super lazy and lethargic once he turned heel. However as a midcard face I agree that Savio was very underrated. Great fire, always worked hard, and pretty much always put on a good match. He was basically like early 90's Tito Santana except that he could actually win some big matches here and there. It also seems like Savio was a very respected guy in the locker room. Austin, JBL, and Goldust have all given him a lot of credit and praise in doing a lot to help them along and get their footing in the company as they were all booked in programs against Savio early in their runs. Knowing that it makes his heel turn even more dumb. If the new heels like working with him so much and he's doing such a good job putting them over then why switch him? I can imagine Tatanka not liking the heel turn and it showing in his performance. He is legitimately a nice guy and respectful to fans so I would think having to play the character turning on the fans for the money would be something that hurt him personally. Plus it didn't seem like much was in the plans for him once he turned so he probably felt his best days were behind him. I think Savio is another guy who is pretty nice so he might not have put as much into the heel run though I think he did pretty good for what he was given during that time period. It's funny you mention both of them together because they were two of my favorites during their initial runs. I liked Tatanka from 1992-1994 and Savio from 1995-1997. I think they still had plans for Tatanka in that he was still positioned high on the card for quite a while after his heel turn, even main eventing the PPV the OP is talking about even though pretty much nobody gave a crap about him anymore. He also had his feud with Luger that was featured heavily even into early 95. Given his subpar performance in the ring, I think they had more patience then most would've had with him. Savio and Tatanka were my two oddball midcard babyface favorites too when I was watching as a kid in the early-mid 90's where I don't really know why I liked them but I just did for some reason.
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Perfect Timing
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Post by Perfect Timing on Feb 28, 2019 18:09:42 GMT -5
1995 was strange for a lot of the guys.
Savio Vega evetually got over after being poorly introduced. I know I marked for him and his matches in 1996 were very good usually.
Mabel was a pain too watch but as a one off I can see why Vince would experiment. I cant see a guy like Bam Bam having much credibility at this time to go against Diesel. Even as a kid, after his loss to Lawrence Taylor he seemed like a loser to me.
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Post by CertifiedBA on Feb 28, 2019 18:47:23 GMT -5
Complete reboot year pretty much
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 28, 2019 19:25:24 GMT -5
Anytime I look back on 1995 WWF it makes me wonder how they managed to stay in business. Just wall to wall garbage with a very occasional bright spark. Some of it was diehards and the name still having cultural cache, and some of it was WCW also sucking a lot of dick, business-wise. No one was in any position to put the screws to them.
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Post by Deputy Muscle on Mar 1, 2019 2:34:11 GMT -5
Anytime I look back on 1995 WWF it makes me wonder how they managed to stay in business. Just wall to wall garbage with a very occasional bright spark. Some of it was diehards and the name still having cultural cache, and some of it was WCW also sucking a lot of dick, business-wise. No one was in any position to put the screws to them. Good point. If WCW had started to get hot just a bit earlier then it really would have been writing on the wall for Vinny Mac.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on Mar 1, 2019 7:56:05 GMT -5
Alot of the crap in 1995 was in the gimmick and how they were presented, the talent was there, the gimmicks sucked. #
For example if you had: "The Franchise" Shane Douglas "No Gimmicks Needed" Chris Candido w/ Sunny Hakushi (as the same) Triple H Savio (repackaged as something more edgy) Kane Goldust Al Snow PCO
Along with Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Yozokuna, The Undertaker, Lex Luger, British Bulldog, Tatanka (1992-1993 version) Sid Vicious, Bam Bam Bigelow, Jeff Jarrett, Road Dogg, Doink (reverted back to 1993 version)
You have a really strong cast of characters and talent.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Mar 1, 2019 8:42:18 GMT -5
I was in the crowd watching with my friends at the time it was my 9th Birthday present my dad rented a limo and we all went shame it's an event that is dumped on I understand that but as a nine year old with all my wrestling mark friends it was a good time for me
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Post by bogussting on Mar 1, 2019 23:22:06 GMT -5
I would have rather had a Yokozuna-Diesel feud.
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Mar 2, 2019 1:38:41 GMT -5
I would have rather had a Yokozuna-Diesel feud. I get the appeal of the former monster champ taking on Diesel, but as slow as Mabel was at this time, Yoko was even worse. Diesel even squashed the former champ in less than 5 minutes in their first match.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Mar 2, 2019 8:53:37 GMT -5
I remember being bummed when they announced the show was going to be in Philly because I was going to be out of town and couldn't go. Then the show happened and I wasn't as bummed out anymore.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Mar 2, 2019 17:13:23 GMT -5
It shocks me that he kept being brought back. They had him for one day in 1998 and then full time from 1999 on. Yet he was the same poor worker just with worse gimmicks. I'm guessing he was a good sport and did what was asked and was respectful to other workers or a locker room leader type (without the silly wrestler's court gimmick or bullying/purposely hurting your opponent). Due to his size he could actually be an effective member of a roster in an enhancer role which is basically all he was used in during his other runs. It wasn't like he was pushed at all as Viscera or the World's Largest Love Machine. I remember a match he had with Batista during that time Batista was kind of still in that transition period where he was still technically a heel in Evolution but was clearly going to turn face soon and was getting really over as a face. They had a decent match with Batista spinebustering him for the finish. Got a great reaction and made Batista look like a badass for being able to manhandle such a huge guy like. In cases like that he could actually be pretty useful. Unlike his previous run it also seems like he had learned to be safer in the ring and wasn't hurting guys anymore so as long as he wasn't being pushed above his talent like he was in 95, I thought Mabel/Viscera was perfectly fine as a lowercard big guy.
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