Zen411
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,748
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Post by Zen411 on Feb 24, 2019 16:10:42 GMT -5
Wow. What a mess of ppv. Poorly booked is an understatement. You have Shawn Michaels, yokozuna, undertaker, and originally razor Ramon available. And they go with roadie, savio vega, and Mabel as the stars of the show?
Ecw Was hot at the time and they are in Philly. And this is the show they produce. With dudes in yellow and purple holding open the door for the stars at the ramp. It was as out of touch a show as they could possibly put together. A big failed push from Mabel and where were they going with Vega anyways? Hbk, Jarrett, razor, yokozuna, and undertaker appear on the show to promote jobbers. I don't get it.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 24, 2019 16:38:45 GMT -5
Easy. You need to build someone up a to be a monster for Diesel to beat at Summerslam. Michaels had recently turned face and was the IC champion and traditionally face vs face matches don't draw well so that was out. They didn't want to beat Undertaker and didn't want to change the title or do a non-finish. So you take a 500 lbs guy and give him a singles push. Physically Mabel was huge. You could buy that he could destroy a guy as big as Diesel. But they didn't want to put him over anyone they wanted to keep in a strong postion. Nor did they want any of those people to lose in a eventually meaningless tournament. So you end up with a lame tournament with bs finish so Undertaker and Michaels don't do the favor and Savio Vega, who had no credibility as a babyface because WWE had do nothing to get him over, losing to Mabel. The idea of getting Mabel over to be the monster heel was a good idea. The execution was poor for sure, but I can understand why they did it.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,763
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Post by cjh on Feb 24, 2019 16:46:53 GMT -5
Easy. You need to build someone up a to be a monster for Diesel to beat at Summerslam. Michaels had recently turned face and was the IC champion and traditionally face vs face matches don't draw well so that was out. They didn't want to beat Undertaker and didn't want to change the title or do a non-finish. So you take a 500 lbs guy and give him a singles push. Physically Mabel was huge. You could buy that he could destroy a guy as big as Diesel. But they didn't want to put him over anyone they wanted to keep in a strong postion. Nor did they want any of those people to lose in a eventually meaningless tournament. So you end up with a lame tournament with bs finish so Undertaker and Michaels don't do the favor and Savio Vega, who had no credibility as a babyface because WWE had do nothing to get him over, losing to Mabel. The idea of getting Mabel over to be the monster heel was a good idea. The execution was poor for sure, but I can understand why they did it. It was set up by Kama interfering, but Mabel did pin Undertaker. I believe it was Undertaker's first pinfall loss since Tuesday in Texas 3 1/2 years earlier.
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Post by CeilingFan on Feb 24, 2019 16:48:02 GMT -5
They were hoping Savio Vega would draw more Hispanic viewers, like Tito Santana and Pedro Morales both did.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 86,925
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Post by chrom on Feb 24, 2019 16:58:49 GMT -5
The show was a no brainer.
Whoever booked it had no brain
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 39,705
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Post by Spider2024 on Feb 24, 2019 18:21:49 GMT -5
I was mainly upset that a final 8 featuring The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels & Yokozuna featured a final 4 of none of those 3 men.
Instead we got The Roadie in there. Not even "Road Dogg" where at least he was good at promos. The Frickin' Roadie was one of the 3 men left to win the King Of The Ring.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 24, 2019 18:24:46 GMT -5
They eliminated the stars too early to try to protect Mabel, but instead of giving him breathing room and making Savio look like the marathon man like they intended, it just make it look like a chump show.
Mabel at this point in his career was essentially Barney the Dinosaur. Purple, but also, and more importantly, green. He was not ready for this spot.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 24, 2019 18:28:36 GMT -5
They eliminated the stars too early to try to protect Mabel, but instead of giving him breathing room and making Savio look like the marathon man like they intended, it just make it look like a chump show. Mabel at this point in his career was essentially Barney the Dinosaur. Purple, but also, and more importantly, green. He was not ready for this spot. In essences they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted to get Mabel over as a monster heel but they didn't want him to beat anyone of value clean. Putting Mabel over to build him for Diesel was a fine idea. The execution was terrible.
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Post by cabbageboy on Feb 24, 2019 19:13:26 GMT -5
I wonder if Watts was helping book this stuff at the time, because a huge black dude seems right up his alley. The problem is that they pissed away one of their biggest PPVs on a Diesel/Mabel main event. Why not extend the Sid feud until SS? I'm not saying Diesel/Sid was drawing either, but at least there would be some potential for it. Mabel hadn't even been pushed especially hard before that point, so the win came out of nowhere. Even Kama had some basis in a previous gimmick as Papa Shango for getting a push. I loathed the Mabel push so much that I never watched SS 1995 for about 12 years until I got the boxed set. It was quite a good show too aside from the main.
The actual KOTR PPV itself showed the dilemma they had in 1995. Namely everyone good was a face and they had no decent heels. I think Diesel's run was harmed badly by this. That and if the idea was to recreate a Hogan type champ the problem is that Nash isn't a great seller. He works better as a semi heelish big man that beats up a smaller dude, which is totally not Hogan's style. Hogan was a unique talent in that even as a 6'8" 300 lb. guy he could believably be beaten up and sold for a variety of opponents.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,350
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Feb 24, 2019 19:16:27 GMT -5
You’d think two guys whose best talents were being 500lbs and flipping his cool long hair would be more entertaining but yet....
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,763
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Post by cjh on Feb 24, 2019 19:18:37 GMT -5
I wonder if Watts was helping book this stuff at the time, because a huge black dude seems right up his alley. The problem is that they pissed away one of their biggest PPVs on a Diesel/Mabel main event. Why not extend the Sid feud until SS? I'm not saying Diesel/Sid was drawing either, but at least there would be some potential for it. Mabel hadn't even been pushed especially hard before that point, so the win came out of nowhere. Even Kama had some basis in a previous gimmick as Papa Shango for getting a push. I loathed the Mabel push so much that I never watched SS 1995 for about 12 years until I got the boxed set. It was quite a good show too aside from the main. The actual KOTR PPV itself showed the dilemma they had in 1995. Namely everyone good was a face and they had no decent heels. I think Diesel's run was harmed badly by this. That and if the idea was to recreate a Hogan type champ the problem is that Nash isn't a great seller. He works better as a semi heelish big man that beats up a smaller dude, which is totally not Hogan's style. Hogan was a unique talent in that even as a 6'8" 300 lb. guy he could believably be beaten up and sold for a variety of opponents. No, he hadn't started yet. He apparently actually bought a ticket to the August MSG show. WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 12, 1995 (8,800) Included the announcement of the following matches for the Oct. 6 return: Bret Hart (w/ George Steele) vs. Isaac Yankem DDS (w/ Jerry Lawler), WWF Women's Champion Alundra Blayze vs. Bertha Faye, the Undertaker vs. King Mabel, and a WWF World Title match; Bill Watts attended the show as a ticketholder, without knowledge of WWF management, and reportedly took notes and asked questions of fans around him
Skip pinned Bob Holly when the momentum of a flying bodypress by Holly put Skip on top Fatu pinned King Kong Bundy with a bodyslam after Bundy missed a charge Henry Godwinn pinned Adam Bomb at the 15-second mark with the Slop Drop Jacob & Eli Blu defeated Lex Luger & Davey Boy Smith when Luger was pinned after Smith walked out of the match; prior to the bout, Smith took the mic and told the fans not to chant USA because it offended him Savio Vega pinned Rad Radford (sub. for IRS) with a spin wheel kick WWF World Champion Diesel & WWF IC Champion Shawn Michaels defeated Men on a Mission when Diesel pinned Sir Mo with a boot to the face; prior to In Your House 2, the bout was set for Diesel & Micheals vs. Psycho Sid & Jeff Jarrett; prior to that show, it was Sid & Tatanka; after the match, Davey Boy Smith and Razor Ramon made the save for the champions Razor Ramon defeated Psycho Sid via disqualification when Ted Dibiase interfered as Sid was set up for the Razor's Edge Hunter Hearst Helmsley pinned the 1-2-3 Kid with the Pedigree Tatanka defeated Bam Bam Bigelow in an Indian strap match Bret Hart pinned Jean-Pierre Lafitte by kicking off the turnbuckle while caught in a sleeper I believe Watts worked the September In Your House and the two days of TV tapings that followed, then was done before the October IYH.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 24, 2019 19:19:22 GMT -5
Was utter shit. Almost any other heel would have been preferable.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Posts: 121,921
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 24, 2019 20:03:19 GMT -5
I wonder if Watts was helping book this stuff at the time, because a huge black dude seems right up his alley. The problem is that they pissed away one of their biggest PPVs on a Diesel/Mabel main event. Why not extend the Sid feud until SS? I'm not saying Diesel/Sid was drawing either, but at least there would be some potential for it. Mabel hadn't even been pushed especially hard before that point, so the win came out of nowhere. Even Kama had some basis in a previous gimmick as Papa Shango for getting a push. I loathed the Mabel push so much that I never watched SS 1995 for about 12 years until I got the boxed set. It was quite a good show too aside from the main. The actual KOTR PPV itself showed the dilemma they had in 1995. Namely everyone good was a face and they had no decent heels. I think Diesel's run was harmed badly by this. That and if the idea was to recreate a Hogan type champ the problem is that Nash isn't a great seller. He works better as a semi heelish big man that beats up a smaller dude, which is totally not Hogan's style. Hogan was a unique talent in that even as a 6'8" 300 lb. guy he could believably be beaten up and sold for a variety of opponents. No, he hadn't started yet. He apparently actually bought a ticket to the August MSG show. WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 12, 1995 (8,800) Included the announcement of the following matches for the Oct. 6 return: Bret Hart (w/ George Steele) vs. Isaac Yankem DDS (w/ Jerry Lawler), WWF Women's Champion Alundra Blayze vs. Bertha Faye, the Undertaker vs. King Mabel, and a WWF World Title match; Bill Watts attended the show as a ticketholder, without knowledge of WWF management, and reportedly took notes and asked questions of fans around him
Skip pinned Bob Holly when the momentum of a flying bodypress by Holly put Skip on top Fatu pinned King Kong Bundy with a bodyslam after Bundy missed a charge Henry Godwinn pinned Adam Bomb at the 15-second mark with the Slop Drop Jacob & Eli Blu defeated Lex Luger & Davey Boy Smith when Luger was pinned after Smith walked out of the match; prior to the bout, Smith took the mic and told the fans not to chant USA because it offended him Savio Vega pinned Rad Radford (sub. for IRS) with a spin wheel kick WWF World Champion Diesel & WWF IC Champion Shawn Michaels defeated Men on a Mission when Diesel pinned Sir Mo with a boot to the face; prior to In Your House 2, the bout was set for Diesel & Micheals vs. Psycho Sid & Jeff Jarrett; prior to that show, it was Sid & Tatanka; after the match, Davey Boy Smith and Razor Ramon made the save for the champions Razor Ramon defeated Psycho Sid via disqualification when Ted Dibiase interfered as Sid was set up for the Razor's Edge Hunter Hearst Helmsley pinned the 1-2-3 Kid with the Pedigree Tatanka defeated Bam Bam Bigelow in an Indian strap match Bret Hart pinned Jean-Pierre Lafitte by kicking off the turnbuckle while caught in a sleeper I believe Watts worked the September In Your House and the two days of TV tapings that followed, then was done before the October IYH. Credit to Watts for actually wanting to do his homework. That, and it being the mid 90s, they probably appreciated another paying customer.
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Zen411
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,748
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Post by Zen411 on Feb 24, 2019 20:07:20 GMT -5
I just can't believe that they looked at their whole roster and went with the fat one from men on a mission.
Then a tourney featuring future hall of famers like taker and hbk and yokozuna gets the roadie at his absolute greenest when he was mainly known as jarretts assistant. We also had bob holly and kwang as a new Puerto Rican star. I never got the push of savio. Is that the best Hispanic star they could find? Really??
Main event also was terrible. Diesel and newly face bigelow vs sid and tatanka. No good chemistry between either team. Dibiases team coming out to his theme song made them all look like dibiases henchmen instead of him making them look great. That's a big problem with the heels at the time. In fact bigelow would have been a much better pick to face diesel than frickin Mabel.
I also think Shawn should have won. Would have been a nice title to have before he won the big championship. Could have been cool to see him get a rematch against diesel at summerslam and use the king of the ring and are they or aren't they friends storyline.
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
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Post by Shark on Feb 24, 2019 22:27:20 GMT -5
Having just watched that whole year on the Network, I can kind of maybe understand the intent behind everything. Mabel was a big guy, could kind of talk and was a good imposing opponent for Diesel. The Sid feud was already treading water by this point. Actually watching, it is really easy to see the parallels between the Diesel and Reigns runs on top. Both were put into roles that hid their strengths and were constantly paired with people they lacked good chemistry with. Both guys also do much better with smaller foes. Diesel's best matches that year were against Bret and Shawn.
I even get it with Savio. Wrestles 4 times in one night, over comes some big odds. It's the same thing they did with Savage at Wrestlemania. He was also associated with Razor a well established name. The problem was he didn't have the talent to live up to it. Might have actually been better to go with Razor's other friend in the 1-2-3 Kid. More established name and more likely to get something closer to good matches that night.
Taker lost, but in a cheap way and Shawn was a month from claiming the IC title and just had come back himself from a layoff so him losing wouldn't have made sense. Really, WWE booked themselves into a corner.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 24, 2019 23:46:53 GMT -5
Why do people have a hard time believing that Vince McMahon would look at a guy who's 6'5 450 lbs and think "God damn that guy's gonna be my next top heel."? It's Vince McMahon. It's what he does.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 24, 2019 23:51:14 GMT -5
You know what? Savio Vega deserved better. I think he was perfectly decent in the ring, and with better booking (and a better outfit; christ) he coulda been a good upper-midcard face.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Feb 24, 2019 23:52:44 GMT -5
Ecw Was hot at the time and they are in Philly. And this is the show they produce. With dudes in yellow and purple holding open the door for the stars at the ramp. Yeah it's not like those dudes would ever become any kind of extreme team.
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SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
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The Excellence of Allocation
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Post by SmashTV on Feb 25, 2019 3:24:52 GMT -5
I remember watching and being shocked that Shawn was eliminated in the first round, as he was slowly becoming the focal of the company. I then got a sense that they were trying to push the undercard guys, which I had no problem with.
However, seeing how green they were and unsuited to the limelight soon became apparent, and to have Vega lose in the final despite being pushed through the show was a strange idea. The whole show was just flat and awkward, and wasn’t a good time for the WWF in general.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 25, 2019 3:34:42 GMT -5
See Giant Gonzalez before that and Heidenreich after that.
Vince thought that just because you were a big guy that would automatically draw money.
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