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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 27, 2019 7:10:36 GMT -5
They’re going to overthink this and screw it up something fierce somehow. I'll be honest, I already have no interest in the story portion of this beyond when the match at Mania happens. Watching the same angle twice on both shows is like if I spent my days playing Incubus and Hoobastank at the exact same time. Audience: (looks at WM title storylines) Is there something more...than what I've been handed?! Vince: No.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 27, 2019 7:30:34 GMT -5
On one hand it might be a good sign Kofi's getting that shit, on the other hand it's a real f***ing hack move to just do the same story all over again but with less background and character to it. I've stuck up for the Becky/Charlotte/Ronda story because it's a case of WWE falling ass-backwards into a really good throughline of character motivations. That shit can't be found here at goddamn all. I also fear for the possibility that WWE running the same story twice over means that one of the two isn't getting the happy ending they need, Vince doesn't play like that. I feel like no outcome is off the table at this point. That said, as a fan, I’m a bit exhausted with all this. It’s just so much inside baseball that you have to know or choose to believe. How many matches do we have to have that have “Vince hates this person for realsies and doesn’t want them to succeed” as a plot point? Especially for someone like me who buys into the theory of “If he REALLY hated them, they wouldn’t even have gotten THIS far”.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 27, 2019 7:34:49 GMT -5
On one hand it might be a good sign Kofi's getting that shit, on the other hand it's a real f***ing hack move to just do the same story all over again but with less background and character to it. I've stuck up for the Becky/Charlotte/Ronda story because it's a case of WWE falling ass-backwards into a really good throughline of character motivations. That shit can't be found here at goddamn all. I also fear for the possibility that WWE running the same story twice over means that one of the two isn't getting the happy ending they need, Vince doesn't play like that. I feel like no outcome is off the table at this point. That said, as a fan, I’m a bit exhausted with all this. It’s just so much inside baseball that you have to know or choose to believe. How many matches do we have to have that have “Vince hates this person for realsies and doesn’t want them to succeed” as a plot point? Especially for someone like me who buys into the theory of “If he REALLY hated them, they wouldn’t even have gotten this far”. Honestly, we talk about characters and the size of present talent and everything else but I think THIS is the thing that's keeping casual viewers (whatever that even means anymore) away the most. For people who seem to hate Meltzer and the like with a passion, a lot of storylines really rely on you having a subscription to the Wrestling Observer for at least the past decade to understand Vince's mindset on this stuff. It's also why when I see indies do the whole "owner of the company becomes a main character in the show" stuff, it frustrates me because it makes so little sense to their own narrative outside of the fact they own it and they can do this stuff.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 27, 2019 7:34:59 GMT -5
On one hand it might be a good sign Kofi's getting that shit, on the other hand it's a real f***ing hack move to just do the same story all over again but with less background and character to it. I've stuck up for the Becky/Charlotte/Ronda story because it's a case of WWE falling ass-backwards into a really good throughline of character motivations. That shit can't be found here at goddamn all. I also fear for the possibility that WWE running the same story twice over means that one of the two isn't getting the happy ending they need, Vince doesn't play like that. I feel like no outcome is off the table at this point. That said, as a fan, I’m a bit exhausted with all this. It’s just so much inside baseball that you have to know or choose to believe. How many matches do we have to have that have “Vince hates this person for realsies and doesn’t want them to succeed” as a plot point? I hate that the mindset is still one where Vince's opposition "makes" a star. They don't use this shit sparingly at all, and it comes off like the only way they know how to make a story interesting is to burn through this samey nonsense all over again. It's not as rewarding as they think it is the fifth and sixth times they run through this same idea. All I want is good storytelling and this really isn't bringing any of that to the table right now, it's just recycling old material and using the same tropes at the expense of telling something more interesting. We don't need Vince screwing Kofi, the narrative of "Kofi has been here forever, got an opportunity to shine and now he's on the rise" is perfectly fine and the rfocus should be on the conflict between those characters, not on Vince McMahon ruining everything. We already have a three hour show every Monday that conveys that just fine. It's like this is the only trick they have left, and it's not all that good a trick.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 27, 2019 7:40:24 GMT -5
I feel like no outcome is off the table at this point. That said, as a fan, I’m a bit exhausted with all this. It’s just so much inside baseball that you have to know or choose to believe. How many matches do we have to have that have “Vince hates this person for realsies and doesn’t want them to succeed” as a plot point? I hate that the mindset is still one where Vince's opposition "makes" a star. They don't use this shit sparingly at all, and it comes off like the only way they know how to make a story interesting is to burn through this samey nonsense all over again. It's not as rewarding as they think it is the fifth and sixth times they run through this same idea. All I want is good storytelling and this really isn't bringing any of that to the table right now, it's just recycling old material and using the same tropes at the expense of telling something more interesting. We don't need Vince screwing Kofi, the narrative of "Kofi has been here forever, got an opportunity to shine and now he's on the rise" is perfectly fine and the rfocus should be on the conflict between those characters, not on Vince McMahon ruining everything. We already have a three hour show every Monday that conveys that just fine. It's like this is the only trick they have left, and it's not all that good a trick. Also, story wise...it hardly makes sense. If Vince had such a problem with Kofi being announced last week as the opponent for Fastlane...why didn't he do this last week when it was announced Kofi would be facing Bryan? It'd be a lot more dramatic and at least make Vince look like he knows about stuff going on at the time instead of a week later. I know they have weeks to fill in programming before Fastlane but there are so many ways this could have been done without making the on screen heads of the company look incompetent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 7:47:30 GMT -5
I hate that the mindset is still one where Vince's opposition "makes" a star. They don't use this shit sparingly at all, and it comes off like the only way they know how to make a story interesting is to burn through this samey nonsense all over again. It's not as rewarding as they think it is the fifth and sixth times they run through this same idea. All I want is good storytelling and this really isn't bringing any of that to the table right now, it's just recycling old material and using the same tropes at the expense of telling something more interesting. We don't need Vince screwing Kofi, the narrative of "Kofi has been here forever, got an opportunity to shine and now he's on the rise" is perfectly fine and the rfocus should be on the conflict between those characters, not on Vince McMahon ruining everything. We already have a three hour show every Monday that conveys that just fine. It's like this is the only trick they have left, and it's not all that good a trick. Also, story wise...it hardly makes sense. If Vince had such a problem with Kofi being announced last week as the opponent for Fastlane...why didn't he do this last week when it was announced Kofi would be facing Bryan? It'd be a lot more dramatic and at least make Vince look like he knows about stuff going on at the time instead of a week later. I know they have weeks to fill in programming before Fastlane but there are so many ways this could have been done without making the on screen heads of the company look incompetent. They actually have week to go before Fastlane. Singular. The next shows are the go-home ones.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 27, 2019 7:47:48 GMT -5
I hate that the mindset is still one where Vince's opposition "makes" a star. They don't use this shit sparingly at all, and it comes off like the only way they know how to make a story interesting is to burn through this samey nonsense all over again. It's not as rewarding as they think it is the fifth and sixth times they run through this same idea. All I want is good storytelling and this really isn't bringing any of that to the table right now, it's just recycling old material and using the same tropes at the expense of telling something more interesting. We don't need Vince screwing Kofi, the narrative of "Kofi has been here forever, got an opportunity to shine and now he's on the rise" is perfectly fine and the rfocus should be on the conflict between those characters, not on Vince McMahon ruining everything. We already have a three hour show every Monday that conveys that just fine. It's like this is the only trick they have left, and it's not all that good a trick. Also, story wise...it hardly makes sense. If Vince had such a problem with Kofi being announced last week as the opponent for Fastlane...why didn't he do this last week when it was announced Kofi would be facing Bryan? It'd be a lot more dramatic and at least make Vince look like he knows about stuff going on at the time instead of a week later. I know they have weeks to fill in programming before Fastlane but there are so many ways this could have been done without making the on screen heads of the company look incompetent. They don't care. They just don't f***ing care. Vince got an idea in his head and they're doing it.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 27, 2019 8:08:23 GMT -5
Also, story wise...it hardly makes sense. If Vince had such a problem with Kofi being announced last week as the opponent for Fastlane...why didn't he do this last week when it was announced Kofi would be facing Bryan? It'd be a lot more dramatic and at least make Vince look like he knows about stuff going on at the time instead of a week later. I know they have weeks to fill in programming before Fastlane but there are so many ways this could have been done without making the on screen heads of the company look incompetent. They don't care. They just don't f***ing care. Vince got an idea in his head and they're doing it. Can we just pin this phrase in the top of the WWE section?That way every time someone wonders why X is ahppening, just look at it.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 27, 2019 8:17:21 GMT -5
I feel like no outcome is off the table at this point. That said, as a fan, I’m a bit exhausted with all this. It’s just so much inside baseball that you have to know or choose to believe. How many matches do we have to have that have “Vince hates this person for realsies and doesn’t want them to succeed” as a plot point? I hate that the mindset is still one where Vince's opposition "makes" a star. They don't use this shit sparingly at all, and it comes off like the only way they know how to make a story interesting is to burn through this samey nonsense all over again. It's not as rewarding as they think it is the fifth and sixth times they run through this same idea. All I want is good storytelling and this really isn't bringing any of that to the table right now, it's just recycling old material and using the same tropes at the expense of telling something more interesting. We don't need Vince screwing Kofi, the narrative of "Kofi has been here forever, got an opportunity to shine and now he's on the rise" is perfectly fine and the rfocus should be on the conflict between those characters, not on Vince McMahon ruining everything. We already have a three hour show every Monday that conveys that just fine. It's like this is the only trick they have left, and it's not all that good a trick. It’s not really even Vince as a TV character I’m burnt out by, it’s like what eJm said... A fan shouldn’t need to have a f***ing Wrestling Observer subscription to make sense of the storylines.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 27, 2019 8:33:32 GMT -5
I hate that the mindset is still one where Vince's opposition "makes" a star. They don't use this shit sparingly at all, and it comes off like the only way they know how to make a story interesting is to burn through this samey nonsense all over again. It's not as rewarding as they think it is the fifth and sixth times they run through this same idea. All I want is good storytelling and this really isn't bringing any of that to the table right now, it's just recycling old material and using the same tropes at the expense of telling something more interesting. We don't need Vince screwing Kofi, the narrative of "Kofi has been here forever, got an opportunity to shine and now he's on the rise" is perfectly fine and the rfocus should be on the conflict between those characters, not on Vince McMahon ruining everything. We already have a three hour show every Monday that conveys that just fine. It's like this is the only trick they have left, and it's not all that good a trick. It’s not really even Vince as a TV character I’m burnt out by, it’s like what eJm said... A fan shouldn’t need to have a f***ing Wrestling Observer subscription to make sense of the storylines. Oh no I know, I mean more that this is whole weird backstage narrative nonsense is the only way they know to give things a big fight feel. Like we had this nonsense last year where they had Roman complain about how Brock was Vince's boy in the lead-up to Mania and intentionally played around with weird faked stories leaked to the sheets about Brock and trying to leverage the question of if he was resigning or not as a way to drum up support for Roman. It's all just an extension of the same thing for me; Vince's capacity here isn't to play Mister McMahon, Chairman of the Board and maniacal slimeball, it's to play Vince McMahon, old fogey who holds down your faves. They know this worked with Daniel Bryan and so they keep trying it time and again, and since it's actually kind of worked out with Becky in the months it's been going--maybe less so right now as it drags on too long--they're doubling down on also doing it now with Kofi. My point wasn't that Kofi doesn't need Vince so much that Kofi's narrative works perfectly well on its own without trying to work the sheets and introduce new obstacles into it; Bryan is all the obstacle Kofi needs, and the dark mirror of Kofi in a similar position to the one Bryan was in on his rise to the top and Bryan being a turd about it is its own beautiful heel work without explicitly having to involve authority figures.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 8:37:07 GMT -5
Vince finds an idea that works once and runs it to the ground. That’s why they still have heel authority figures 20 years after Mr. McMahon worked.
The last great angle they ever did was falling into the DB title win at WM 30. So now they feel every babyface needs to be seen as being “held back” by Vince because they feel the fans will latch on like they did with Bryan. In this case they might be right again with Kofi but it completely stunted Becky’s momentum. She didn’t need to be against the Authority. Kofi at least makes some sense in that role since his push essentially came out of no where.
On another note, I saw the clip on YT and had to say that Xavier’s overacting was really bad. Not quite Sid levels but cartoonish nonetheless. Tone it down, Woods.
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Post by MrElijah on Feb 27, 2019 8:45:19 GMT -5
The Authority Screws faces is OLD. It worked during the Attitude era because of the events (Bret/Austin) that led up to it. USA Network isn't helping things because they feel they need the McMahon's plus the whole booking philosophy.
You know what would be an awesome thing to do? After WM35, no more authority figures.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 27, 2019 8:52:37 GMT -5
Didn’t Kofi try to fight Vince once? Based on what we know of Vince, Kofi is probably his favorite guy on th roster, so I have little doubt this is leading to the big feel good title win at Mania for him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 10:29:11 GMT -5
At least Owens is still a face, at the end of the match he was saying to Kofi "I'll become champion and then I'll face you, that's my plan", so he's advocating for Kofi too. See, I read that and say "and then he assaults Kofi Zayn even though they're apparently pals."
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 27, 2019 12:53:53 GMT -5
Didn’t Kofi try to fight Vince once? Based on what we know of Vince, Kofi is probably his favorite guy on th roster, so I have little doubt this is leading to the big feel good title win at Mania for him. Vince also is close friends with Truth. It doesnt mean anything if he likes you,what matters is if he sees you as a big mainstream star
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 27, 2019 12:56:25 GMT -5
Yeah, the way they are getting there is hella uncreative but hey. If Kofi gets strapped up at Mania, I'll accept the bullshit for now.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 27, 2019 13:10:05 GMT -5
Didn’t Kofi try to fight Vince once? Based on what we know of Vince, Kofi is probably his favorite guy on th roster, so I have little doubt this is leading to the big feel good title win at Mania for him. Vince also is close friends with Truth. It doesnt mean anything if he likes you,what matters is if he sees you as a big mainstream star R Truth is US Champ and beat two big stars last night. And Kofi is likely getting the Mania match.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 27, 2019 13:14:05 GMT -5
Vince also is close friends with Truth. It doesnt mean anything if he likes you,what matters is if he sees you as a big mainstream star R Truth is US Champ and beat two big stars last night. And Kofi is likely getting the Mania match. Yeh , US Champ, not a big star os pushed as such. Same with Kofi until the crowd was behind. Being good terms with vince means keeping your job forever and/maybe a mid-card presence. Vince doesnt give "big feel good wins for the world title"over liking someone.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 13:15:59 GMT -5
What’s this about Kofi trying to fight Vince once? How annoying do you have to be to get the nicest guy on the roster to try to beat your ass!?
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Post by MrElijah on Feb 27, 2019 13:17:40 GMT -5
What’s this about Kofi trying to fight Vince once? How annoying do you have to be to get the nicest guy on the roster to try to beat your ass!? I can see Vince being VERY annoying.
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