mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Mar 7, 2019 12:03:51 GMT -5
The Michael Jackson documentary.
Anyone seen it?
Part 2 is on tonight in the UK. Think it’s already aired in the US.
Thoughts? Reservations?
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 7, 2019 12:37:15 GMT -5
It's easy to accuse someone of something when they're dead and can't refute anything. Just saying...
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SmashTV
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Post by SmashTV on Mar 7, 2019 12:42:45 GMT -5
Hmmm. This is always going to be a controversial subject.
I’m of the opinion that there’s no smoke without fire, and their stories matched up. I think that something happened behind closed doors, but whether it was horseplay that crossed boundaries or not, nobody can confirm. What I heard last night wasn’t pleasant, though, and was far, far worse than I imagined.
However, why go public now a decade after Michael Jackson has died? Why not say something during either trial? Wouldn’t their parents want to see justice served and speak up on behalf of their kids? It’s unfortunate that Michael Jackson isn’t here to defend himself, as we’ve only got these two guys word to go on.
The whole thing is an unfortunate saga.
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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 7, 2019 12:49:39 GMT -5
I do find it critical that both Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman have repeatedly defended Jackson and have stated he never abused them; all the more telling given the latter has not hesitated in calling out predators in Hollywood by name.
That doesn't prove his innocence of any wrongdoing, but it does contrast him with the likes of a Jimmy Savile who was said to have preyed on so many kids that testimonies were coming in from all over England after he died.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 7, 2019 12:51:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure one way or the other whether he fondled the kids but even if he didn't physically touch them there's always been something inherently creepy about his relationships with children. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself for people being weirded out by his behaviour.
As for "well he's not here to defend himself" Well, to play devils advocate neither was Jimmy Saville.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Mar 7, 2019 12:58:32 GMT -5
Both of the accusers are shopping for book and film deals. If people actually researched information other than sensationalistic news and tabloids they'd know that for one A) Wade Robson's accusations had been thrown out because he lied and changed his story, he defended Michael while he was alive during the trial and waited nearly ten years after having a nervous breakdown(He didn't get a role on the Michael Jackson circus show), B) FBI investigators followed Michael without his knowledge for several years and turned up no pedophilia, child molestation, or child pornography, C) No pedophile is ever going to admit to sleeping with children nor will he invite a camera crew into his home.
If Michael was a pedophile/child molester he did a horrible job at hiding it. People really need to research actual information and court documents before falling prey to discredited accusers and media pundits.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 7, 2019 13:06:51 GMT -5
I plan to watch it at some point but I think a lot of people see this as a many grab and the fact Jackson is dead and can’t defend himself
If I’m not mistaken but the boys went on record in court and said MJ never touched that at all and for this to switch years later and he’s dead has raised eyebrows
It’s Def not getting the attention you would think If this was a bombshell revelation
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Mar 7, 2019 13:32:44 GMT -5
I plan to watch it at some point but I think a lot of people see this as a many grab and the fact Jackson is dead and can’t defend himself If I’m not mistaken but the boys went on record in court and said MJ never touched that at all and for this to switch years later and he’s dead has raised eyebrows It’s Def not getting the attention you would think If this was a bombshell revelation Oh it's gotten attention. Several radio stations have pulled Michael's songs from their outings due to the allegations and "bombshell information", Oprah using them as a means to garner applause and ratings for her show by siding with them(Which is disgusting since Michael's rare exclusive interview was what helped propel her into the mainstream), and you add onto the fact which you stated they altered their stories too many times. Being on record under oath stating nothing happened, ten years later all of a sudden "something happened" due to not landing a spot on Michael Jackson's circus show? Come on. Why can't people just use their brains and actually research the information? It's easily accessible and would open a lot of eyes if people are willing to educate themselves on the topic.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Mar 7, 2019 13:41:49 GMT -5
Both of the accusers are shopping for book and film deals. If people actually researched information other than sensationalistic news and tabloids they'd know that for one A) Wade Robson's accusations had been thrown out because he lied and changed his story, he defended Michael while he was alive during the trial and waited nearly ten years after having a nervous breakdown(He didn't get a role on the Michael Jackson circus show), B) FBI investigators followed Michael without his knowledge for several years and turned up no pedophilia, child molestation, or child pornography, C) No pedophile is ever going to admit to sleeping with children nor will he invite a camera crew into his home. If Michael was a pedophile/child molester he did a horrible job at hiding it. People really need to research actual information and court documents before falling prey to discredited accusers and media pundits. I saw a source which contradicts b). I will see if I can find it
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Mar 7, 2019 13:59:17 GMT -5
Both of the accusers are shopping for book and film deals. If people actually researched information other than sensationalistic news and tabloids they'd know that for one A) Wade Robson's accusations had been thrown out because he lied and changed his story, he defended Michael while he was alive during the trial and waited nearly ten years after having a nervous breakdown(He didn't get a role on the Michael Jackson circus show), B) FBI investigators followed Michael without his knowledge for several years and turned up no pedophilia, child molestation, or child pornography, C) No pedophile is ever going to admit to sleeping with children nor will he invite a camera crew into his home. If Michael was a pedophile/child molester he did a horrible job at hiding it. People really need to research actual information and court documents before falling prey to discredited accusers and media pundits. I saw a source which contradicts b). I will see if I can find it Nothing contradictory about it. The FBI released a 300 page investigation stating nothing criminal or pedophilia. They followed Michael for ten years only to come up with nothing on their end. Are we to believe the FBI the biggest federal branch in the United States couldn't find anything or are we to believe money hungry individuals?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 7, 2019 14:16:37 GMT -5
I plan to watch it at some point but I think a lot of people see this as a many grab and the fact Jackson is dead and can’t defend himself If I’m not mistaken but the boys went on record in court and said MJ never touched that at all and for this to switch years later and he’s dead has raised eyebrows It’s Def not getting the attention you would think If this was a bombshell revelation Oh it's gotten attention. Several radio stations have pulled Michael's songs from their outings due to the allegations and "bombshell information", Oprah using them as a means to garner applause and ratings for her show by siding with them(Which is disgusting since Michael's rare exclusive interview was what helped propel her into the mainstream), and you add onto the fact which you stated they altered their stories too many times. Being on record under oath stating nothing happened, ten years later all of a sudden "something happened" due to not landing a spot on Michael Jackson's circus show? Come on. Why can't people just use their brains and actually research the information? It's easily accessible and would open a lot of eyes if people are willing to educate themselves on the topic. Still nowhere near the outrage for R Kelly who finally had his past catch up to him
Also, yeah i've seen the backlash on Oprah as I have seen people upset with her in the fact she supported MJ when he was alive but now that's head and been dead almost 10 years she's flipping the script and potentially killing the legacy
I plan to give this a watch at some point to see if any new info is provided than we already knew but I think you're going to have a hard time changing a lot of people mind as compared to others who got caught for their past deeds, Michael hasn't really had people lining up the block to tell on him as far as I know
And to bring it back to R Kelly, you defended the "status quo" hard when that topic was brought up but you didn't educate yourself on that topic. Could be the same with people here but these things take time
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 7, 2019 14:24:51 GMT -5
I plan to watch it at some point but I think a lot of people see this as a many grab and the fact Jackson is dead and can’t defend himself If I’m not mistaken but the boys went on record in court and said MJ never touched that at all and for this to switch years later and he’s dead has raised eyebrows It’s Def not getting the attention you would think If this was a bombshell revelation This is what I have been saying, as many went to want to blackball MJ now, there was no proof shown that it happened or anything new to add, outside they years later want to change there story. They clearly did this for more attention. Some would say MJ paid them to be quiet, ok sure could be possible but that would put them in a lot of trouble for now admitting they lied in court right? Than I guess HBO and whoever filmed this, than paid them to come out with this story as well. Either way it's a clear paid day in some way. The fact they waited so many years after the man is dead and in no way defend himself. Does say something.
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Post by wildojinx on Mar 7, 2019 14:31:59 GMT -5
Have either of MJ's ex-wives commented on this yet?
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 7, 2019 14:34:07 GMT -5
Have either of MJ's ex-wives commented on this yet? Not that I know of wish makes it interesting. They would know better than anybody right? One would also say that in trial they would been questioned as well.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Mar 7, 2019 14:37:09 GMT -5
Oh it's gotten attention. Several radio stations have pulled Michael's songs from their outings due to the allegations and "bombshell information", Oprah using them as a means to garner applause and ratings for her show by siding with them(Which is disgusting since Michael's rare exclusive interview was what helped propel her into the mainstream), and you add onto the fact which you stated they altered their stories too many times. Being on record under oath stating nothing happened, ten years later all of a sudden "something happened" due to not landing a spot on Michael Jackson's circus show? Come on. Why can't people just use their brains and actually research the information? It's easily accessible and would open a lot of eyes if people are willing to educate themselves on the topic. Still nowhere near the outrage for R Kelly who finally had his past catch up to him Also, yeah i've seen the backlash on Oprah as I have seen people upset with her in the fact she supported MJ when he was alive but now that's head and been dead almost 10 years she's flipping the script and potentially killing the legacy I plan to give this a watch at some point to see if any new info is provided than we already knew but I think you're going to have a hard time changing a lot of people mind as compared to others who got caught for their past deeds, Michael hasn't really had people lining up the block to tell on him as far as I know And to bring it back to R Kelly, you defended the "status quo" hard when that topic was brought up but you didn't educate yourself on that topic. Could be the same with people here but these things take time
Oh, I still maintain my strong beliefs on R Kelly. I did my research and educated myself but I won't get into it again. I vowed to keep my views to myself regarding him and I am keeping that promise. With Michael I have done extensive reading articles, watched many videos of documentaries on YouTube, and I will always maintain the belief that he was a victim of a planned and sinister extortion attempt.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Mar 7, 2019 14:37:29 GMT -5
I saw a source which contradicts b). I will see if I can find it Nothing contradictory about it. The FBI released a 300 page investigation stating nothing criminal or pedophilia. They followed Michael for ten years only to come up with nothing on their end. Are we to believe the FBI the biggest federal branch in the United States couldn't find anything or are we to believe money hungry individuals? Well I might be wrong. Just thought I read something to the contrary. For the record I’m not emotionally involved in this case as I’m not a huge fan of MJ (though I recnogise his talent and like his music) and am not altogether bothered how this all goes.. Just thought I’d start a discussion after watching the documentary.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 7, 2019 14:37:32 GMT -5
I plan to watch it at some point but I think a lot of people see this as a many grab and the fact Jackson is dead and can’t defend himself If I’m not mistaken but the boys went on record in court and said MJ never touched that at all and for this to switch years later and he’s dead has raised eyebrows It’s Def not getting the attention you would think If this was a bombshell revelation This is what I have been saying, as many went to want to blackball MJ now, there was no proof shown that it happened or anything new to add, outside they years later want to change there story. They clearly did this for more attention. Some would say MJ paid them to be quiet, ok sure could be possible but that would put them in a lot of trouble for now admitting they lied in court right? Than I guess HBO and whoever filmed this, than paid them to come out with this story as well. Either way it's a clear paid day in some way. The fact they waited so many years after the man is dead and in no way defend himself. Does say something. Yea, it's a rabbit hole. If they lied in court they would be in trouble though the easy excuse would be they were just kids. The obvious excuse would be Michael paid them and their parents but then people are going to want to see a paper trail and if they can't provide that then it's down the train. If he touched them kids, no parent on earth would let their kid lie in court if there is no money involved so the question would be why did you lie.
In a sense tho I can see why they waited. If you tried to do this right after he died you wouldn't be heard at all. However, in the world we live now where the R Kelly documentary has f***ed him over, Bill Cosby past has caught up to him, people are more willing to listen to your story but you have to have compelling evidence. I'm pretty sure people want to interview them and have them be questioned about the finer details (This could all be answered in the doc tho as I haven't watched yet)
The family isn't going to take this lying down tho I would assume. If the backlash does continue to grow and it effects his legacy I expect them to fight back but so far it's been out a few days and it really isn't a big part of the news
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Mar 7, 2019 14:38:36 GMT -5
Have either of MJ's ex-wives commented on this yet? Not that I know of wish makes it interesting. They would know better than anybody right? One would also say that in trial they would been questioned as well. Lisa and Debbie have both been on record in the past that Michael never molested children and when they were married to him they had a sexually active relationship.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Mar 7, 2019 14:39:46 GMT -5
Hmmm. This is always going to be a controversial subject. I’m of the opinion that there’s no smoke without fire, and their stories matched up. I think that something happened behind closed doors, but whether it was horseplay that crossed boundaries or not, nobody can confirm. What I heard last night wasn’t pleasant, though, and was far, far worse than I imagined. However, why go public now a decade after Michael Jackson has died? Why not say something during either trial? Wouldn’t their parents want to see justice served and speak up on behalf of their kids? It’s unfortunate that Michael Jackson isn’t here to defend himself, as we’ve only got these two guys word to go on. The whole thing is an unfortunate saga. I felt sadness watching the doc. Michael seemed like such a nice and sweet man, even if the allegations are true. That’s a weird thing to say but I mean even if he was a, well you know what, 99% of the time he seemed like such a nice person and then he (May have) had that 1% dark side, which seemed to pretty damn dark.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Mar 7, 2019 14:40:28 GMT -5
I do find it critical that both Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman have repeatedly defended Jackson and have stated he never abused them; all the more telling given the latter has not hesitated in calling out predators in Hollywood by name. That doesn't prove his innocence of any wrongdoing, but it does contrast him with the likes of a Jimmy Savile who was said to have preyed on so many kids that testimonies were coming in from all over England after he died. Jimmy Saville sickens me. Even just photos of him
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