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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 10:47:34 GMT -5
There’s no racial undertones.
If Daniel Bryan happened to be black in 2014, everyone would say “HHH is holding him back because he’s black!”
Kofi just happens to be black. The reason Vince doesn’t want him as champion has nothing to do with his skin color. It’s because he’s a midcarder. “People like me” is referencing the hard working high risk takers who put their body on the line for Vince for little reward. He wasn’t referring to black people
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 10:50:20 GMT -5
I mean Vince said the N word on TV so it's not like Vince cares too much about that public perception. Vince said the “a” version of the word. To a white guy. If you go out clubbing, you’ll see white chicks all around you dancing and singing every word to Chris Brown’s “Freaky Friday”... it doesn’t mean they’re racists. I wouldn’t say it, personally. But it was clearly meant to be a joke.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 10:54:55 GMT -5
I guess we can say that Edward Norton is racist because he hated blacks in American History X. Vince being racist isn’t something he does for TV. It’s documented all throughout the last 30 years in real life, including the known bigots he still has in his inner circle today. A white guy saying the N word in a movie to push a specific plot is different than Vince saying it on TV for no reason at all. Like I said if it was so harmless then Vince should do it again. Do it next week on TV. I’m willing to bet he wouldn’t. The only "documentation" I see Vince being out right racist is from the likes of Ahmed Johnson, and no one, from the wrestlers themselves to the fans, takes him seriously. People accused of Mr. Fleihr of being a racist, but no one would being that argument.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 21, 2019 10:55:01 GMT -5
I mean Vince said the N word on TV so it's not like Vince cares too much about that public perception. Vince said the “a” version of the word. To a white guy. If you go out clubbing, you’ll see white chicks all around you dancing and singing every word to Chris Brown’s “Freaky Friday”... it doesn’t mean they’re racists. I wouldn’t say it, personally. But it was clearly meant to be a joke. There’s not any reason that it’s ok to use the n word not even in a joking manner.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 10:58:58 GMT -5
There’s no racial undertones. If Daniel Bryan happened to be black in 2014, everyone would say “HHH is holding him back because he’s black!” Kofi just happens to be black. The reason Vince doesn’t want him as champion has nothing to do with his skin color. It’s because he’s a midcarder. “People like me” is referencing the hard working high risk takers who put their body on the line for Vince for little reward. He wasn’t referring to black people They're clearly going for racial undertones with this storyline. If you think they aren't after hearing this? I think that says that for some reason you're not seeing it. Listen to E's verbiage used. There's specific verbiage used which hints towards this storyline without directly stating it which New Day's known for. This isn't new for them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 11:03:41 GMT -5
Vince said the “a” version of the word. To a white guy. If you go out clubbing, you’ll see white chicks all around you dancing and singing every word to Chris Brown’s “Freaky Friday”... it doesn’t mean they’re racists. I wouldn’t say it, personally. But it was clearly meant to be a joke. There’s not any reason that it’s ok to use the n word not even in a joking manner. I agree but the fact is, a lot of people see a difference in the “a” and “er” I blame pop culture for putting the word in so many rap songs and stuff. Anyway we might be going off topic here and I don’t want to risk breaking any rules.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 11:13:08 GMT -5
As a whole I'd say this storyline's pretty great because they're finding ways to weave in the racial undertones without directly stating it but beyond that they're telling a story that regardless of race, you can feel what Kofi's going through. It just goes to show that no matter what skin color you are, you can experience what his pain. Beyond that, they won't directly state it's racial, they'll just assume that people can put the clue together. I'd say yeah the WWE agreed to go with this given their whole "we love realism" thing but they decided to tone things down. Why wouldn't Vince go along with it in a subdued form? He's not the kind of guy against anything racial if it can be done. Besides that we know how New Day is. New Day's the group of guys who always mention black excellence. New Day mentioned Lana being Russian and being a hacker. New Day's the group that joked that Charlotte would pass Flair's amount of title wins because they kept flipping the women's title.
New Day had a segment where it was designed to have 2 black wrestlers take a knee on WWE television that people didn't know about until it was revealed in an interview. This racial storyline is right up their alley.
Overall it's pretty smart. This is probably the best storyline in the company today.
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Post by Starshine on Mar 21, 2019 18:39:20 GMT -5
I do think WWE has a historical problem with institutional racism in their presentation even up to today. A lot of minorities, and foreigners are regularly compartmentalized into the same boxes where the majority of their character traits are "I'm from 'x country.'" For example The Lucha House Party may as well be three of the exact same person, their only real notable characteristic between the three is they're Mexican Luchadores. Which is weird cause 2/3 aren't even Mexican but I guess they're close enough. Then that's not even considering the pinatas and the issues that were with that.
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Post by Prince Petty on Mar 21, 2019 19:02:09 GMT -5
Considering they've got people on their shows saying 'this is all fake, you marks! But I'm real!' I don't think we should automatically assume that the company is even slightly aware of how close to the bone this storyline is.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Mar 21, 2019 20:11:09 GMT -5
If this results in Booker T Running out to make the save for Kofi, help get him the title it would all be worth it
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Mar 21, 2019 20:45:31 GMT -5
I don't even watch enough WWE these days to have caught any of these segments, but I'm still going to put down a few assumptions: 1. If we're talking about a WWE angle and using phrases like "subtle undertones", "subtext", "implied", I can assure you, Vince McMahon has no idea it exists. That doesn't mean it isn't happening, but Vince sure as hell doesn't know it's happening, because subtle subtext is not how he operates, at all, and nobody's going to convince him otherwise. If anyone involved in this pitched subtle racial implications to him and Vince was keen on the idea, by the next week McMahon and Bryan would be in white hoods beating up the New Day with flaming crosses. 2. New Day have been getting shit under the radar for pretty much their entire existence, have never shyed away from pointing out that all of them-- both individually and a group-- were given nothing by WWE creative ever except career-killing bullshit and looking for ways to circumvent it and make lemonade out of lemons, and they're good enough of it to have a degree of autonomy in putting together their segments. They're absolutely going to make this a story about race, air a lot of completely real and legitimate grievances with WWE while they do it, and get away with it because nobody with authority above them notices or cares as long as it's getting a reaction. 3. Also, this: They're carnies, they have no shame about anything.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Mar 22, 2019 5:10:15 GMT -5
The company has been racist for over 30 years. Like “hiding in plain sight” kind of racist. They won’t come out and say it but they’ve done more than enough to prove it. At this point it is what it is. Fans either overlook it because they like wrestling or I’m sure some fans are racist themselves so they identify with it (ex. The WWE could get live crowds to boo Middle Eastern characters in a split second). They do come out and say it, Vince said the n word in a promo and they invited Bill Watts to a round table celebrating black wrestlers lol. They’ve never been good at hiding their racism. Let's not forget KO was inserted into the mix literally the last day of Black History Month.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 22, 2019 6:49:53 GMT -5
Considering they've got people on their shows saying 'this is all fake, you marks! But I'm real!' I don't think we should automatically assume that the company is even slightly aware of how close to the bone this storyline is. Big E is probably looking for ways to call out specific people by name, on TV, as we speak.
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Post by abjordans on Mar 22, 2019 8:47:25 GMT -5
Probably going to feel vindicated when WM ends with Kofi as WWE Champion.
I have a question: I know there has never been a black WWE Champion outside of The Rock. But, what Black pro wrestlers should have been WWE Champion? Booker T, but he was World Heavyweight Champion, so then the question is was that deliberate to give him the one that isn’t Vince’s baby. Same with Mark Henry. But, have there been a lot of black pro wrestlers that were missed opportunities to be WWE Champion? I can’t think of many. I feel like that might sound bad, but hear me out. It is not meant as a knock in the slightest. A lot of the great black pro wrestlers that have worked for WWE have been bad timing. Now, have guys not been seen as missed opportunities maybe because they simply weren’t GIVEN opportunity? That is another question. I think it moreso boils down to pro wrestling is something a lot of black peoples simply don’t pursue in large numbers. They are a minority that is even more a minority in the wrestling business. That becomes another debate, why is that? I think it is interesting to think about.
JYD was a giant star as top babyface in mid south, but I don’t Think he was given a bad shake not being WWE Champion, no one on the planet should have been top babyface outside of Hogan in the 80s. Ron Simmons had a lot of miles on his body from football before he came to wrestling, by the time he came to WWE he couldn’t be the top guy. I think we will see more black WWE Champions going forward. I see more and more black wrestlers on shows. I think Riccochet will be WWE Champion. I think he can be a great tool for representation for young African American youth to want to grow up to be a pro wrestler. Even moreso than Kofi, he does things that could be really awe inspiring to all of the younger audience, the kind of thing that really triggers the “I want to do THAT” mechanism in young minds. I think there is a big future for Montez Ford. Velveteen Dream is a no brainer. The dude who gets chants to sit down on the NXT house show loop has a big upside, I apologize for not knowing his name, but this dude has loads of charisma. I can’t remember his name, but I talked for a long time to this dude who was working security at a NXT house show. He was signed by Jerry Brisco after being a college wrestler at UNC. This dude charmed everybody he spoke to and had a great look, I will definitely be watching for him.
Basically, this is a long winded way of saying I think we will be entering a new day, pun intended, for representation and opportunity for the black community in WWE.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 22, 2019 8:54:59 GMT -5
I get the feeling that if fans actively chanted “You Are Racists” whenever Vince or insert authority figure here was out there skirting the line, they’d back down from this kinda stuff real quick. Probably could get a lot of changes made if they could get more clever about their chants. But we can just stick to “You Deserve It” and “What”, I guess. I'd love it if fans chanted stuff like "This is racist". You can ignore or poke fun at "CM Punk" chants. Not so easy when fans are pointing out racism.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 22, 2019 9:00:03 GMT -5
There’s no racial undertones. If Daniel Bryan happened to be black in 2014, everyone would say “HHH is holding him back because he’s black!” Kofi just happens to be black. The reason Vince doesn’t want him as champion has nothing to do with his skin color. It’s because he’s a midcarder. “People like me” is referencing the hard working high risk takers who put their body on the line for Vince for little reward. He wasn’t referring to black people They're clearly going for racial undertones with this storyline. If you think they aren't after hearing this? I think that says that for some reason you're not seeing it. Listen to E's verbiage used. There's specific verbiage used which hints towards this storyline without directly stating it which New Day's known for. This isn't new for them. The thing about New Day is that they're positive role models who just happen to be black, and that's something all three members take very seriously. Xavier has specifically said they never wanted to be "militant angry black guys", so hopefully this angle ends with New Day celebrating in usual New Day fashion as Kofi holds up the title at WrestleMania.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 22, 2019 9:22:30 GMT -5
The dude who gets chants to sit down on the NXT house show loop has a big upside, I apologize for not knowing his name, but this dude has loads of charisma. I can’t remember his name, but I talked for a long time to this dude who was working security at a NXT house show. He was signed by Jerry Brisco after being a college wrestler at UNC. This dude charmed everybody he spoke to and had a great look, I will definitely be watching for him. The first guy is Brennan Williams, whose current gimmick on the Florida loop seems to be Velveteen Dream if he was taking inspiration from Lenny Kravitz and not Prince. The second guy sounds like it would be Denzel Dejournette, who has started to make a few more regular appearances on the Florida loop.
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Post by abjordans on Mar 22, 2019 9:24:20 GMT -5
The dude who gets chants to sit down on the NXT house show loop has a big upside, I apologize for not knowing his name, but this dude has loads of charisma. I can’t remember his name, but I talked for a long time to this dude who was working security at a NXT house show. He was signed by Jerry Brisco after being a college wrestler at UNC. This dude charmed everybody he spoke to and had a great look, I will definitely be watching for him. The first guy is Brennan Williams, whose current gimmick on the Florida loop seems to be Velveteen Dream if he was taking inspiration from Lenny Kravitz and not Prince. The second guy sounds like it would be Denzel Dejournette, who has started to make a few more regular appearances on the Florida loop. Yea and I apologize, I feel that not knowing their names, that probably took away from the point I was trying to make. I probably could have at least looked it up. But, I like both those guys.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 22, 2019 9:30:02 GMT -5
The first guy is Brennan Williams, whose current gimmick on the Florida loop seems to be Velveteen Dream if he was taking inspiration from Lenny Kravitz and not Prince. The second guy sounds like it would be Denzel Dejournette, who has started to make a few more regular appearances on the Florida loop. Yea and I apologize, I feel that not knowing their names, that probably took away from the point I was trying to make. I probably could have at least looked it up. But, I like both those guys. It's fine, there's like a thousand people these days that could be on the Florida loop shows on any given weekend. It's impossible to remember everyone, regardless of their race.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 22, 2019 9:41:26 GMT -5
Yea and I apologize, I feel that not knowing their names, that probably took away from the point I was trying to make. I probably could have at least looked it up. But, I like both those guys. It's fine, there's like a thousand people these days that could be on the Florida loop shows on any given weekend. It's impossible to remember everyone, regardless of their race. How are you accessing Florida Loop shows from Australia? I don't mean that in an offensive way or anything. I just want to know because I never hear or see much of anything about the Florida Loop/PC talent.
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