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Post by realist on Apr 2, 2019 6:45:43 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight. From a kayfabe perspective, a shot at the Universal Title against the man who broke the Undertaker's streak, squashed John Cena, destroyed Samoa Joe, broke Braun Strowman, and crushed Roman Reigns' hopes and dreams repeatedly, is NOT worthy of Finn channeling the Demon. But Bobby Lashley who has only posed and slapped his own ass repeatedly is?! What am I missing here?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 2, 2019 6:47:48 GMT -5
I think the idea is that he doesn't just willingly do it, it happens or it doesn't, or else he could just do it all the time.
Realistically, they just didn't want to have Finn lose to him while doing the Demon bit. Still honestly one of Brock's better post-Suplex City lazytown matches.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Apr 2, 2019 6:56:48 GMT -5
Beats me. *shrug*
This is the main issue with them trying to give the demon paint some meaning and some reasoning for why Balor does it. From my understanding, he literally only did it on the indies because it looked cool, no more no less. It was glorified cosplay. WWE have tried to put a story to it, linking it with Irish mythology and other weirdness. Problem is, they've protected the gimmick so much, with only ONE loss in the paint in five and a half years. We're almost on the verge of "He should be the Demon all the time so he can actually WIN all the time" territory, because many of us want him as the top male star, and the path to that is winning a lot of, if not all, your matches. And judging by how frosty they got with Jonathan Coachman when he said that on commentary, that's clearly not the intention.
The side thing of it too is that these always end up with "You beat me in the paint, but can you beat me as yourself?", and that drags his feuds out even more.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 2, 2019 7:12:06 GMT -5
Simply put, the Demon has never lost on the main roster.
In kayfabe, it doesn't make sense - the Demon should have been out for this one, if only because Finn knew that his limbs and flesh would likely not be enough and he had to draw on its power to put him over the top. At minimum, it demanded an explanation for why the Demon would not be necessary to face the Beast Incarnate.
Out of kayfabe, there was no way that Vince's master plan of getting that title on Roman Reigns was going to be derailed by some Irish "fairytale" (and we know goddamn well where Vince was going with putting those words into Bobby's mouth) leaping ahead and getting over with the crowd on his own. But the Demon is a winner that sells merch, pal, and Vince wasn't dropping that gravy train, either, by putting him in front of Brock only to lose.
Why Vince wants to keep Brock as Universal champion is beyond anyone's comprehension at the moment - he's not the one selling the tickets or spiking the merch sales - except to troll the lot of us. It would take a genuine emergency a la Roman's leukemia returning to force Vince to change his plans and, even then and as we see, he'll force us back into the new normal as soon as the emergency shows even the first signs of being over. Finn Balor's Demon, to Vince, is a pleasant distraction intended to entertain the kids (and, for some reason, the women fans seem to get excited over it, too).
It's heartbreaking, in its way - the fans' headcanon is what keeps the Demon entertaining and, if Finn were given his head to pull the cart creatively, he can bring some of that headcanon to life (along with his own.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 7:23:49 GMT -5
To be fair, there is a personal divide here - Lesnar's just some guy Balor was fighting. Lashley's been kicking Finn's ass on a weekly basis since like October.
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Post by Fauxnaki on Apr 2, 2019 7:32:42 GMT -5
The demon is a dumb gimmick. Twink boogeyman is not threatening
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Post by Pgarodactyl on Apr 2, 2019 7:37:42 GMT -5
I think this is a chance for them to add some layers to the Demon side of Balor. Instead of just being "He taps into that side", it could be that "that side" takes hold little by little every time Finn uses it to the point it starts changing his non-Demon personality to align better with the Demonic inner. That would explain why he only breaks it out when things get personal rather than just any match - even if "any match" is for the Universal Championship against the Beast. It could be used to "explain" a future Finn heel turn if need be.
I mean if it has to be a part of his act, might as well give it some ACTUAL meaning and - maybe - real consequences to explain why he doesn't just use it every week.
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 2, 2019 7:38:34 GMT -5
Perhaps the Demon is a being of Chaos and only shows up when it feels like wrecking shit.
Like my cat.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 8:15:30 GMT -5
I think this is a chance for them to add some layers to the Demon side of Balor. Instead of just being "He taps into that side", it could be that "that side" takes hold little by little every time Finn uses it to the point it starts changing his non-Demon personality to align better with the Demonic inner. That would explain why he only breaks it out when things get personal rather than just any match - even if "any match" is for the Universal Championship against the Beast. It could be used to "explain" a future Finn heel turn if need be. I mean if it has to be a part of his act, might as well give it some ACTUAL meaning and - maybe - real consequences to explain why he doesn't just use it every week. I’d also say they need to show how it actually affects him because I’ve yet to see if change how he wrestles etc. It’s just Finn painted up
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 2, 2019 8:19:02 GMT -5
Beats me. *shrug* This is the main issue with them trying to give the demon paint some meaning and some reasoning for why Balor does it. From my understanding, he literally only did it on the indies because it looked cool, no more no less. It was glorified cosplay. You're partially right but I think there was a core reason he did it. It was about intimidation. For example, one of the defining memories I have of Devitt was when he came out for his last indie match at York Hall wearing Bane gear. The thing that made it cooler was that people dressed as Gotham PD were on the entrance ramp, ready to stop him and he essentially beat up all of them. They were all laying around him, the people who weren't KO'd trying to drag their colleges away as Devitt went down the ramp ready to face Adam Cole. Like, yes, it was all pageantry and cosplay but it felt also like intimidation. This wasn't someone dressed up as Bane, this WAS Bane and his moves were more intense because he wanted to f*** Adam Cole up. The Demon doesn't quite have that because it comes out at the weirdest times and even with the stories linked to it, it feels like it doesn't make sense for him to bring it out against, say, Baron Corbin at Summerslam 2018 because he was annoying him (Yes, still bitter about that, that was dumb). Even against Lashley...Lashley's been annoying him for months and it's NOW he's bringing out the Demon. Heck, he and Corbin still feuded after SummerSlam so the Demon just felt pointless.
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Post by beefy on Apr 2, 2019 8:30:52 GMT -5
Last time he had a PPV title one-on-one match, he went as vanilla Finn and lost. And last WM, he went as vanilla Finn and lost as well. Now, he’s at WM with a chance to win a title, so maybe it’s time to swallow his personal pride and summon the demon; lately, being “extraordinary” hasn’t been enough. In short, not going Demon against Brock was a mistake, and it’s a mistake he’s not making again, especially at WM.
(...look, it’s got some logic to it. The problem is, you (as the viewer) have to jump through your own hoops and create headcanon to justify it. It’s still bad storytelling.)
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 2, 2019 8:38:09 GMT -5
Last time he had a PPV title one-on-one match, he went as vanilla Finn and lost. And last WM, he went as vanilla Finn and lost as well. Now, he’s at WM with a chance to win a title, so maybe it’s time to swallow his personal pride and summon the demon; lately, being “extraordinary” hasn’t been enough. In short, not going Demon against Brock was a mistake, and it’s a mistake he’s not making again, especially at WM. (...look, it’s got some logic to it. The problem is, you (as the viewer) have to jump through your own hoops and create headcanon to justify it. It’s still bad storytelling.) See, like, if they had segments or Dot Com promos where Finn was conflicted about it or someone asked him about it and he snapped or said "No" and walked out, this would make cool character development or even something to add to the Lashley feud since Lashley's pushed him to this point. It's like a lot of stuff on WWE that it happens and I used to be somewhere where people were justifying stuff with their own headcanons and stuff that, honestly, the TV should be saying in different ways and it got super tedious because most of this stuff isn't even hard to do and would utilise the YouTube promos they seem to love to ignore.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 2, 2019 8:49:06 GMT -5
If they wanted an excuse for him to not be the Demon every time they should show it taking a toll on him somehow, physically or psychologically.
That is WAY above WWE writing though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 9:05:37 GMT -5
If they wanted an excuse for him to not be the Demon every time they should show it taking a toll on him somehow, physically or psychologically. That is WAY above WWE writing though. This is a genius idea. But WWE is sadly not that complex or detailed. I would also suggest Finn using a different move set as the Demon. But it’s too late for that now.
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Post by Gremlin on Apr 2, 2019 9:06:29 GMT -5
I thought Finn lost his summoning ability because The Demon ran away to elope with Sister Abigail.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 2, 2019 17:24:22 GMT -5
This is what I said at the time. If he comes out as the Demon and loses, they burn the Demon's first loss with a guy that doesn't need it. If he comes out as himself and loses, he's an idiot.
So, he's an idiot.
The theory above about him not choosing to do it but it just manifesting would work if they put that over.
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Post by Prince Petty on Apr 2, 2019 17:34:42 GMT -5
Lashley isn't even Boogeyman-worthy.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Apr 2, 2019 17:53:36 GMT -5
Last time he had a PPV title one-on-one match, he went as vanilla Finn and lost. And last WM, he went as vanilla Finn and lost as well. Now, he’s at WM with a chance to win a title, so maybe it’s time to swallow his personal pride and summon the demon; lately, being “extraordinary” hasn’t been enough. In short, not going Demon against Brock was a mistake, and it’s a mistake he’s not making again, especially at WM. (...look, it’s got some logic to it. The problem is, you (as the viewer) have to jump through your own hoops and create headcanon to justify it. It’s still bad storytelling.) Yeah, the haphazard presentation of the whole thing is what's hurting it. It would be great if along with the lore of "The Demon," they could have wrote in some sort of justification, or even some loose form of ground rules, as to why Finn will do some big matches in the leather jacket, and why he must bring out The Demon at key moments. Even something as simple as Finn not wanting to rely on The Demon as a crutch, fearing it may adversely affecting his everyday self if he brings it out too often, therefore he elected to go into his Universal title match with Brock Lesnar or his Elimination Chamber appearance as his (extra-)ordinary self. However, Bobby Lashley has been a thorn in his side one too many times over the past few months and same with Baron Corbin last year, therefore he needs to use The Demon to put those obstacles behind him would make sense. You could even go back to this logic when it's time to heel turn Finn, and foreshadow it with more frequent Demon appearances. You could even tie his injury during the Seth match to The Demon, claiming that the more reckless style of The Demon opened up his body to potential injury, so there's a bit of a risk factor in play as well. Of course, there's also the fact that these Demon reveals tend to be a bit cringey, but that's a whole new set of problems.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Apr 2, 2019 17:57:07 GMT -5
You know how the Hulk didn’t want to come out because of how bad Thanos would hurt him? Same energy.
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 2, 2019 18:11:30 GMT -5
The demon is a dumb gimmick. Twink boogeyman is not threatening They need to give some reason for why the demon comes out. For example, under great stress or the carnage the demon invokes. For now, you called it... it's twink boogeyman.
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