Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 15:01:05 GMT -5
You hear a lot about guys being brought up in a certain "style" of wrestling, the Memphis style, strong style, etc.
Some of these you can pretty well figure out. Memphis is a brawling, blood and guts type of wrestling, strong style is hard hitting, etc.
Was there a mid-south style? A Crockett style? A WCCW style?
Did the expectations of workrate change with every territory?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 8, 2019 15:03:20 GMT -5
The expectations definitely changed. Like, maybe you could get away with having a bad punch elsewhere, but Memphis, that was pretty important to learn.
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Apr 8, 2019 15:15:24 GMT -5
Cornette's gone into detail about the different elements of each territory; specifically he's highlighted how basic match gimmicks done in Memphis for comedy like a "loser gets tarred and feathered" matches would get obscene heat from the fans when done to babyfaces in Mid-South. Billy Graham was also someone cited as a muscled heel who killed it in New York where big strong guys were expected but didn't really impress in places like Memphis where his more limited style clashed with what Lawler was doing.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 8, 2019 15:34:39 GMT -5
WWWF/New York style - Very meat and potatoes. Very few angles going on beyond the title feuds, whatever Andre had going on if he was around and maybe one other worker getting a spotlight as he climbed the card. Storylines were mostly kept to the "I want the title" variety, with a few other basic types - my move can beat yours, you destroyed a prized possession of mine, you turned heel on me after a tag match. That sort of thing. Action was basic. Punches, kicks, slams and the like. A lot of focus on targeting minority demographics and having a clean cut babyface to represent as many as they could.
Memphis - Russo before Russo. Almost the entire show was moved forward by TV studio promos with Lance Russell and run-ins during the matches on those studio shows. Lots of hotshotting of titles, lots of babyface/heel turns, lots of crazy characters, dropping of angles, massive stables, constantly changing allegiances with little explanation, bizarre twists...
Florida - Heavily influenced by its ties to Japan. No matter what type of style workers used here, the top ones usually had strong mat skills beneath it all.
Georgia - Kings of the intertwining narrative. Ole and his crew were very, very good at having multiple angles going at once that were always crossing through one another and playing off each other. Also kings of the slow burn angle. In hindsight, one can see elements planted months and over a year ahead of time as angles build.
Mid-South - Tough guys. Even the pretty boys were tough guys. If you could wrestle, that was fine, but if you could just beat the hell out of one another, that was better. Very humorless but very logical. Angles had to make sense, twists and turns couldn't have plot holes.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 16:17:39 GMT -5
Just my opinions I apologize if I’m mistaken
WWWF. It was the ethnic champion pretty much brawling with a giant monster heel.
Memphis. Hokey stuff and literally grabbing anyone from the street with just one week of training to face Lawler. It was personal issues, kind of soap opera.
Florida. It wanted to portray amateur wrestlers yet Dusty Rhodes changed the norm.
AWA. Scientific wrestling with Verne f***ing Gagne always winning. Even after the Stossel report, Gagne still tried to keep kayfabe and compare the AWA with legit Olympic wrestling.
WCCW. Brawling and losing to the chemically unbalanced Von Erichs.
Portland. Memphis on a budget.
Mid Atlantic/JCP. Apparently mostly known as a tag team territory until Flair made it big as a single star.
St Louis. Presented itself as a real sport where according to Bobby Heenan there was no cheating nor heat, it got favorable press from the sports section and appealed to a higher class clientele.
Mid South. Legit athletes and Junkyard Dog blowing up in five minutes so they hid him in tags.
San Francisco. I think it was mostly ethnic champions and tag teams.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 16:21:43 GMT -5
Oh Memphis also had no problems stealing successful gimmicks too, they even had a fake Dusty Rhodes called Dream Machine and the guy talked and worked like Dusty.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 8, 2019 16:45:34 GMT -5
Just my opinions I apologize if I’m mistaken WWWF. It was the ethnic champion pretty much brawling with a giant monster heel. Memphis. Hokey stuff and literally grabbing anyone from the street with just one week of training to face Lawler. It was personal issues, kind of soap opera. Florida. It wanted to portray amateur wrestlers yet Dusty Rhodes changed the norm. AWA. Scientific wrestling with Verne f***ing Gagne always winning. Even after the Stossel report, Gagne still tried to keep kayfabe and compare the AWA with legit Olympic wrestling. WCCW. Brawling and losing to the chemically unbalanced Von Erichs. Portland. Memphis on a budget. Mid Atlantic/JCP. Apparently mostly known as a tag team territory until Flair made it big as a single star. St Louis. Presented itself as a real sport where according to Bobby Heenan there was no cheating nor heat, it got favorable press from the sports section and appealed to a higher class clientele. Mid South. Legit athletes and Junkyard Dog blowing up in five minutes so they hid him in tags. San Francisco. I think it was mostly ethnic champions and tag teams. Pretty spot on for the most part. St. Louis was sort of the "super indy" of their time - they didn't keep a full roster like other promotions, but instead booked the top guys from all the other promotions to come in for a shot or two. NWA and WWWF titles could be defended on the same card at any given time. A card could have Dick the Bruiser, Bob Backlund and the Von Erichs on it. Very few storylines or angles or deep feuds. Just top guys showing up to wrestle other top guys.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Apr 8, 2019 16:48:41 GMT -5
Other than its reliance on young cheap talent, Portland was absolutely nothing like Memphis.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 8, 2019 16:49:06 GMT -5
Oh Memphis also had no problems stealing successful gimmicks too, they even had a fake Dusty Rhodes called Dream Machine and the guy talked and worked like Dusty. They had a DIRTY Rhodes.
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Apr 8, 2019 16:50:19 GMT -5
Madison, were there any particular major outlier territories in the US at any point? Some particular regional promotion (maybe an outlaw one) that was especially contrasting in what they did with ring style/tone/angles against other wrestling companies at the time?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 17:21:58 GMT -5
Other than its reliance on young cheap talent, Portland was absolutely nothing like Memphis. Let’s see Studio wrestling personal issues Changes of allegiances that didn’t made sense Wild brawls Only difference is that Jerry Jarrett invested more on production values.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 17:25:30 GMT -5
Adding to the list
Puerto Rico/WWC. Memphis but bloodier with Carlos Colon having the same brawl with Abdullah the Butcher for forty years.
All Japan: Americanized pro wrestling with a generous promoter.
New Japan: Inokism until you almost fill for bankruptcy
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wildojinx
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Post by wildojinx on Apr 8, 2019 17:29:49 GMT -5
What about Big Time Wrestling (Detroit) and Stampede?
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 8, 2019 17:38:44 GMT -5
Madison, were there any particular major outlier territories in the US at any point? Some particular regional promotion (maybe an outlaw one) that was especially contrasting in what they did with ring style/tone/angles against other wrestling companies at the time? Not terribly many. Closest things I can think of was Jack Pfefer's promotion(s) in the 1940s. After being ousted from the organization run by the Gold Dust Trio, Pfefer created his own show, took the GDT's "Slam Bang Action" style and ramped it up to 11. He presented his shows as theatrical events, with emphasis on audience interaction, promos, musical interludes and a cast of wrestlers who were considered "freaks" in their time (wrestlers with deformities, extremely obese workers, little people) and helped push womens and tag wrestling as legitimate spots on the show. Beyond that, I can't really think of any that tried to think outside the box too much. GLOW maybe. It was definitely different in ways than anything else before it but not really the same thing either.
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Apr 8, 2019 17:56:05 GMT -5
I guess it would make sense for any particularly different promotions to not really be viable if the emphasis was still on consistently drawing live events long term. The novelty of really out there companies might get some initial attention, but given how financially reliable pillars of what could be called traditional wrestling were, common sense dictates not straying too far.
GLOW definitely felt like a concept that could have only gotten as far as it did in an era when the money from syndication deals could offset the lack of live gates.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 17:59:52 GMT -5
What about Big Time Wrestling (Detroit) and Stampede? Detroit was The Sheik on top for forty years on bloody brawls even blading jobbers without their consent. He ran it to the ground and Jim Barnett and Ole Anderson took it from under him trying to expand Georgia. Stampede apparently originally appealed to cowboys and blue collar workers according to Lance Storm so the matches were violent. It changed with Dynamite Kid and jr heavyweights were more featured.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 18:11:20 GMT -5
I guess it would make sense for any particularly different promotions to not really be viable if the emphasis was still on consistently drawing live events long term. The novelty of really out there companies might get some initial attention, but given how financially reliable pillars of what could be called traditional wrestling were, common sense dictates not straying too far. GLOW definitely felt like a concept that could have only gotten as far as it did in an era when the money from syndication deals could offset the lack of live gates. Glow was f***ed because the promoter David Mclaine was a carny amongst carnies. Ivory implied once that he took all the money for himself and disappear. They later tried reviving it as POWW with Luna Vachon as the booker but she had a mental breakdown due to Dick Slater domestically abusing her and the project went nowhere.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Apr 8, 2019 18:37:47 GMT -5
I guess it would make sense for any particularly different promotions to not really be viable if the emphasis was still on consistently drawing live events long term. The novelty of really out there companies might get some initial attention, but given how financially reliable pillars of what could be called traditional wrestling were, common sense dictates not straying too far. GLOW definitely felt like a concept that could have only gotten as far as it did in an era when the money from syndication deals could offset the lack of live gates. Glow was f***ed because the promoter David Mclaine was a carny amongst carnies. Ivory implied once that he took all the money for himself and disappear. They later tried reviving it as POWW with Luna Vachon as the booker but she had a mental breakdown due to Dick Slater domestically abusing her and the project went nowhere. Wait, what?! Slater and Luna were together and he beat her, which led to a mental breakdown?! Have any of them mentioned this before? This is all news to me.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 8, 2019 18:47:53 GMT -5
Glow was f***ed because the promoter David Mclaine was a carny amongst carnies. Ivory implied once that he took all the money for himself and disappear. They later tried reviving it as POWW with Luna Vachon as the booker but she had a mental breakdown due to Dick Slater domestically abusing her and the project went nowhere. Wait, what?! Slater and Luna were together and he beat her, which led to a mental breakdown?! Have any of them mentioned this before? This is all news to me. She dated him between her first and second marriages, circa 1986-87. Yeah, he beat her pretty bad. It's fairly well-documented. Here's what promoter Howard Brody posted regarding it on Facebook when Slater died:
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 8, 2019 18:54:58 GMT -5
Glow was f***ed because the promoter David Mclaine was a carny amongst carnies. Ivory implied once that he took all the money for himself and disappear. They later tried reviving it as POWW with Luna Vachon as the booker but she had a mental breakdown due to Dick Slater domestically abusing her and the project went nowhere. Wait, what?! Slater and Luna were together and he beat her, which led to a mental breakdown?! Have any of them mentioned this before? This is all news to me. Like Madison already mentioned with Brody’s fb post. Brody goes into more detail in his book. It got so bad that Luna hid in Howard’s house while Slater was looking for her. Brody even had to give her money just so she could leave town.
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