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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 14:53:49 GMT -5
There's a ton of great talent on the indies, wrestling for Shimmer and elsewhere, which ROH could easily book whenever they want to, because they're independent. ROH just strangely chooses to focus on Kelly Klein and Sumie Sakai.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 14:54:32 GMT -5
a workrate promotion is doable with only 44 minutes of tv time a week to worry about Problem is, as I've said several times, have you ever watched ROH's television programming? They make it so that TV is largely meaningless to the grand scheme of the promotion. Anything that does happen in Ring of Honor is to happen as major events, and have set it up so that it's a miracle if anyone that is close to the top of Ring of Honor's pecking order actually appears on ROH TV. Instead, you're seeing people that the average viewer is going to be flabbergasted as to wondering how they got a contract in such a promotion that once had a pedigree like Ring of Honor. Even the ROH TV Championship isn't defended on ROH TV anymore unless it's a special occasion! The promotion operates, well, like the AWA did, as another user clarified. They assume that the viewer is a cheapskate, so they deliberately withhold all the good stuff from being on their "free" program and make it so you have to attend their major events or buy their iPPVs. In essence, you're watching Main Event each week, where if Matt Taven or the Briscoes make an appearance, it's going to be for a promo and not to wrestle. Such a mindset, unfortunately, creates a self-defeating conundrum; the uninitiated viewer, trained by the WWE product to see the top guys on television on a regular basis, is going to see dumpy fellows like the Beer City Bruiser or even freaking Delirious (who I despise) wrestle each week and go "I ain't watching this", and whenever ROH showers the commercial breaks with vignettes from people like Jay Lethal and Marty Scrull hyping merchandise, those said viewers will likely go "If they're such a big deal, why aren't they on TV?" This doesn't mean that the ROH Champion must wrestle each TV show, but it shouldn't be that every TV taping consists of the undercard and job guys doing random bits and your main event scene hyping up for the next event. They don't even do storylines anymore on programming.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Apr 12, 2019 15:08:43 GMT -5
When their first defense if the ROH tag belts happens, I want to see GoD walk to the ring, throw the belts into the ring, and walk away. Don't even bother, not worth their time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 15:19:22 GMT -5
I think Big Dave is kinda underselling the GOD's reaction, because it's fairly obvious they were furious about the shenanigans.Dude tossed the ROH tag title like it was a pile of dogshit he was chucking over the fence. They ain't gonna be champs for long, and they don't deserve to have to be dragged down by ROH's bullshit. And again, if ROH's and Sinclair's plan is to live in the past of wrestling, they'll might as well pack it in. People liked seeing the nostalgia of guys like PCO and the R'n'R Express at Spring Break because it's also surrounded by some wacky shit and hot young talent that plays into Joey's vibe perfectly. This is basically Bully Ray looking to once again relive the past and bring in his buddies to get an easy paycheck from Sinclair, and Sinclair's already fallen for it. It's Hogan screwing TNA all over again, thus completing ROH going Full Dixie. Delirious better get his plans in order, because he ain't going to be booking there for much longer. You're underestimating Delirious and his job security. Delirious became head booker in September of 2010, 4 and a half months before Sinclair bought Ring of Honor, and right around the time the promotion decided to make the main event scene around Eddie Edwards and Davey Richards. If he survived the Clone Wars, he's likely going to survive this. It may likely be set up where Bully Ray eventually pushes Delirious out as the head booker, and sets it up where ROH is nothing but WCW 1994 or TNA 2010, but the guy's going to find a way to stick around. As for Ray, I agree about what you're saying. If his vision of Ring of Honor is for the company to just be the Old Fart Federation, who wants to follow that? There's nothing wrong with seeing people who've worked in the industry before, but when it comes at the expense of others and it's purely so they can get free money out of an ignorant benefactor, that's when things go sour. Due to Bully Ray's history, we may see a revolving door of ECW and WWE rejects wander in and out the company for months at a time, while the company's main problems (such as fear of pushing hot stars) will be ignored.
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Post by darbus alan on Apr 12, 2019 15:19:41 GMT -5
a workrate promotion is doable with only 44 minutes of tv time a week to worry about Problem is that ROH isn't a workrate promotion anymore. And their weekly TV show is basically the equivalent of WCW Saturday Night in the late 90's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 15:36:02 GMT -5
Honestly, does anybody have any kind of clue what kind of promotion ROH is actually supposed to be at this point?
I really can't identify what on earth the central goal of the company is or what its identity is supposed to be when you get past the NJPW connection. The best I can manage is, "What if a big indie but without any of the big indie guys?"
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 12, 2019 15:39:34 GMT -5
Honestly, does anybody have any kind of clue what kind of promotion ROH is actually supposed to be at this point? I really can't identify what on earth the central goal of the company is or what its identity is supposed to be when you get past the NJPW connection. The best I can manage is, "What if a big indie but without any of the big indie guys?" “What if a wrestling promotion is basis for syndication programming in 2019 for a gigantic media conglomerate?”
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Post by BitterAF on Apr 12, 2019 17:16:42 GMT -5
I've said it several times before, Matt Raven needs to fix his Mohawk. No reason it should stop half way down the back of his head. No way ROH looks good when your world champ looks like that.
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Post by honsou on Apr 12, 2019 17:31:25 GMT -5
Always amazes me how someone so bad at articulating themselves verbally is such a good writer. I mean, the story aside, that's just excellent prose. I've been cool on ROH for a while, especially since the signing of PCO, but the apparent state of booking, the attempts to 'work the (New Japan) boys' and bringing in Enzo...complete jumping off point. Its actually really common for a great writer to not be able to articulate themselves verbally well. Other way around too, just two completely separate skills. I think the biggest issue with bringing in Enzo is that it's just going to upset a lot of people and brings nothing fun to the show. At least with PCO you're going to see some crazy stuff and a guy clearly having fun.
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Shark
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Posts: 7,045
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Post by Shark on Apr 12, 2019 17:34:57 GMT -5
I say this as a fan of women's wrestling - ROH shouldn't have developed a division for it, at least until they have the talent for it. Because I see it at every show, they have one women''s match that is alright but it always sticks out and doesn't really get over. The problem is that when three other companies are fighting for that talent, you might come out on the short end of the stick. I personally feel like not having a women's division doesn't make you sexist, it's just business based on their talent. They had the talent and the buzz when they started the division and they did less than nothing with it.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Apr 12, 2019 17:38:51 GMT -5
Like, honestly, who is f***ing with ROH right now? What's the last ROH angle you really dug that didn't have direct New Japan connections? ...Yeah, I can't think of nothing either.
This doesn't get said enough but the roster they have right now is...not very good. Sure, they have talent that's worth going out of your way to see (Jeff Cobb, Jonathan Gresham, Rush, Bandido, etc.) but up and down the card, the roster is filled with interchangable scrubs. I'm talking about The Bouncers. I'm talking about Shane Taylor. I'm talking about muthaf***ing Kenny King. Matt Taven feels like he has less credibility than when he was TV champ six f***ing years ago. He's the world's champ now. You have got to be kidding me. The Briscoes are so absurdly stale, I don't even know what you do with them. Lethal is popular but man, what a boring title reign. Dalton Castle is in desperate need of booking rehab and really hasn't been the same since injuries derailed his title run.
The entire company needs a face-lift. Honestly, I'm not even sure how ROH fits into the current wrestling landscape but if nothing else, I guess they can be like TNA and just exist as a place for people to get paid.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Apr 12, 2019 18:10:11 GMT -5
Like, honestly, who is f***ing with ROH right now? What's the last ROH angle you really dug that didn't have direct New Japan connections? ...Yeah, I can't think of nothing either. This doesn't get said enough but the roster they have right now is...not very good. Sure, they have talent that's worth going out of your way to see (Jeff Cobb, Jonathan Gresham, Rush, Bandido, etc.) but up and down the card, the roster is filled with interchangable scrubs. I'm talking about The Bouncers. I'm talking about Shane Taylor. I'm talking about muthaf***ing Kenny King. Matt Taven feels like he has less credibility than when he was TV champ six f***ing years ago. He's the world's champ now. You have got to be kidding me. The Briscoes are so absurdly stale, I don't even know what you do with them. Lethal is popular but man, what a boring title reign. Dalton Castle is in desperate need of booking rehab and really hasn't been the same since injuries derailed his title run. The entire company needs a face-lift. Honestly, I'm not even sure how ROH fits into the current wrestling landscape but if nothing else, I guess they can be like TNA and just exist as a place for people to get paid. I remember being SO pumped for Gresham when I heard he signed with ROH, but now it's like....I just watched him in a card Orange Cassidy booked where he worked Shinjiro Otani, and I'd bet cold cash that was better than ANYTHING he's done in ROH.
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Post by toodarkmark on Apr 12, 2019 18:15:11 GMT -5
Honestly, does anybody have any kind of clue what kind of promotion ROH is actually supposed to be at this point? I really can't identify what on earth the central goal of the company is or what its identity is supposed to be when you get past the NJPW connection. The best I can manage is, "What if a big indie but without any of the big indie guys?" “What if a wrestling promotion is basis for syndication programming in 2019 for a gigantic media conglomerate?” Ive thought for a few years that ROH is just an excuse for them to sell knee braces.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 18:40:37 GMT -5
I think ROH will be fine for the long haul but I really think they sealed their fate with that show in that I wouldn't expect them to fill out a stadium again. I would be kind of bummed if the next big North American NJPW show split billing with them again. It seems like contracts are a big killer for alternative wrestling companies right now between ROH and Lucha Underground. ROH seems to do all this weird stuff out of fear of losing their guys, meanwhile places like NXT, Impact, and MLW seem to be thriving on just maximizing the time they have with the best talent available to them and trying to stay in the habit of making stars. I don't know if these exclusive deals are really helpful to anyone right now.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
Patti Mayonnaise
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BAU BAU
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Apr 12, 2019 18:43:11 GMT -5
“What if a wrestling promotion is basis for syndication programming in 2019 for a gigantic media conglomerate?” Ive thought for a few years that ROH is just an excuse for them to sell knee braces. "LISTEN UP, WRESTLING FANS!"
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fingers on Apr 12, 2019 18:43:24 GMT -5
I think the funniest thing about the worked shoot is that they did it in a match that f***ing Jado was at ringside for.
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knightboat
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Post by knightboat on Apr 12, 2019 19:24:11 GMT -5
I haven't seen PCO in ROH, but he killed it on the indies. He's a legitimate talent, he got a standing ovation at the show I went to.
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Chainsaw
T
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It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on Apr 12, 2019 19:55:52 GMT -5
Ive thought for a few years that ROH is just an excuse for them to sell knee braces. "LISTEN UP, WRESTLING FANS!" "Then KICK OUT!" The advertised products really haven't gotten any better, but that's par for the course for Sinclair stations.
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Apr 12, 2019 20:53:26 GMT -5
nZo = No Zest Order
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 12, 2019 21:35:44 GMT -5
I think the funniest thing about the worked shoot is that they did it in a match that f***ing Jado was at ringside for. For me, it's that they wanted it to happen then so A. Bully Ray gets two segments, gotta get that, and B. during their tag title match with NJPW, which just makes me think they had no confidence anyone would care if it happened in the who-gives-a-shit Bully and Flip Gordon match, where it would have been way more appropriate. Also, not telling NJPW, did they (rightfully) assume the Tongans would kick the shit out of Enzo if he touched them?
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