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Post by eJm on May 19, 2019 16:45:30 GMT -5
So here’s my question; why do WWE fear AEW so much? Sure, they have a TV deal, and are acquiring talents WWE might have wanted but...they haven’t put on a show yet and if the PAC thing is to be believed (there’s a bit too much hokey wrestling for that to fully believed but that’s just me), they haven’t quite balanced the office/talent dynamic yet or at least in this one case? Hell, I’ll be bold to put up that even though it went belly up, they didn’t get this nervous about TNA getting Hogan and pretty much every name talent under the sun that was still wrestling AND they were on a cable rival. Is it because they also have a billionaire backing me? Hell, I’m excited about AEW’s debut but I’m confused by WWE’s stance. I think Hunter is more nervous about AEW than anyone. It's pretty clear he recognizes the wrestling landscape and how unpopular Vince's direction for the company is. Fan driven revenue is down across the board for WWE, talent is unsatisfied, and the number of shiny toys left for Hunter to stash in NXT is becoming very slim. Meanwhile the thirst for something...ANYTHING as an alternative to WWE is palpable. Hunter sees all of this, and is now frustrated on Twitter. Hunter is also smart enough to recognize that AEW is not being run by idiots like Dixie Carter or Vince Russo or Hogan. It's being run by Dusty's sons, who are very clearly in touch with what fans want, and they have done just about everything right to get this off the ground. I can accept that...to an extent. The key problems being is that a) WWE has the world’s wrestling on lockdown with so many hands in pies, people know more about what that is then anything else outside of local places, b) they also have all the money and connections since even with the fan interest and revenue down, they can live off TV deals for the next few years and Saudi money for the next decade and c) even if those talents are unsatisfied, WWE is the aim for a lot of talent regardless and a rival would have to change a lot of perceptions to make that happen. If those talents go, there are thousands of people (people I train with included) that’d go to WWE right now. A lot of us here want a rival and we can see AEW is making the steps it should but...this concern should come if there’s proof of the concept working, not of the proof of concept.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
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Post by mrbananagrabber on May 19, 2019 16:46:45 GMT -5
“There are so many alternatives we have to compete with against people watching our shows. I mean, hey, that paint won’t watch itself dry.”
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Chainsaw
T
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It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on May 19, 2019 17:09:13 GMT -5
Did Cool Mom Steph do a dance? Mentioning video games, she did the *checks Mom Notes* ...Floss, as made popular in the video game that all the kids love... *checks notes again* Forknife.
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Post by MrElijah on May 19, 2019 17:23:51 GMT -5
I chuckled at the "compete with video games" part. While that's technically not 100% untrue (since the Raw thread has indeed seen the occasional comment of "ok, my PS4 has finished installing this game, see ya") it's still funny that that's somehow notable competition. Technically 'restaurants' are also competition, most of those serve delicious foods on Monday nights! New Gimmick: "Iron Chef" Drew McIntyre.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on May 19, 2019 17:28:08 GMT -5
I think Hunter is more nervous about AEW than anyone. It's pretty clear he recognizes the wrestling landscape and how unpopular Vince's direction for the company is. Fan driven revenue is down across the board for WWE, talent is unsatisfied, and the number of shiny toys left for Hunter to stash in NXT is becoming very slim. Meanwhile the thirst for something...ANYTHING as an alternative to WWE is palpable. Hunter sees all of this, and is now frustrated on Twitter. Hunter is also smart enough to recognize that AEW is not being run by idiots like Dixie Carter or Vince Russo or Hogan. It's being run by Dusty's sons, who are very clearly in touch with what fans want, and they have done just about everything right to get this off the ground. I can accept that...to an extent. The key problems being is that a) WWE has the world’s wrestling on lockdown with so many hands in pies, people know more about what that is then anything else outside of local places, b) they also have all the money and connections since even with the fan interest and revenue down, they can live off TV deals for the next few years and Saudi money for the next decade and c) even if those talents are unsatisfied, WWE is the aim for a lot of talent regardless and a rival would have to change a lot of perceptions to make that happen. If those talents go, there are thousands of people (people I train with included) that’d go to WWE right now. A lot of us here want a rival and we can see AEW is making the steps it should but...this concern should come if there’s proof of the concept working, not of the proof of concept. I have believed, for a few years now, that WWE is a paper tiger just waiting to be knocked down, and I think people in the company kind of know it now. Now, is that accurate? Maybe not. But you can look at the last year, with the turmoil, the stress that everyone's been under, the ratings decline, the attendance decline, and the decline in popularity of the company as a whole, and see that the company isn't as strong as it was. Even as they were signing all of these deals with the KSA and with Fox, even as they were preparing a global expansion (that, truthfully, hasn't panned out at all, really), even with them signing people right and left, you can feel that there's a bit of imposter syndrome starting to sink in with the WWE with everything that they're trying (and mostly failing at). And AEW is a slick upstart, they look good, they feel professional already, and the signing with TNT just solidifies that they are the competition that the WWE has been fearing the last 10 years, not preparing for. And that's key. I don't know if AEW can pull it off, but if they can get enough of a share of the business, and most importantly, win back the fans that have stepped away from wrestling completely, turned off by WWE being the only viable choice in the business, then they can succeed where the WWE has been failing at the last few years. And if this lights a fire under the WWE, and they improve, then more power to them, more power to everyone.
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Spider2024
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Post by Spider2024 on May 19, 2019 17:40:37 GMT -5
Did Cool Mom Steph do a dance? Mentioning video games, she did the *checks Mom Notes* ...Floss, as made popular in the video game that all the kids love... *checks notes again* Forknife. Wait, didn't WWE themselves make that game?
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Post by King (Super) Dragunov on May 19, 2019 18:21:24 GMT -5
“We have to stop people from stepping outside. Night walks are one of our biggest rivals!” It's troublingly similar, this quote, to a thing I read about in an article detailing the fall of Blockbuster. At one point, Blockbuster stores were having to seriously consider how to deal with competition from local libraries, in terms of rentals. This feels like that mindset. Yeah, having worked in upper management for Blockbuster for almost 10 years until it folded there are definitely aspects of this that mirror BB's downfall. Not saying WWE will fold, it'll probably never happen, but the blanketed worry and focusing on the wrong things instead of going with "stop worrying about everything else and fix your own business model"approach is very similar.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 19, 2019 20:09:30 GMT -5
WWE's fear of AEW really makes absolutely no sense, especially in light of them coming off as super incompetent from the jump with this PAC situation. They've got a TV deal on a good station, a spectacular roster, and they’re being run by people who seem determined to deliver non stop wrestling fan service. With how utterly awful WWE’s product has been lately, I can completely get WWE being wary of lapsed and casual fans, in addition to smarks, deciding to give the new upstart a shot.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 19, 2019 20:24:52 GMT -5
So here’s my question; why do WWE fear AEW so much? Sure, they have a TV deal, and are acquiring talents WWE might have wanted but...they haven’t put on a show yet and if the PAC thing is to be believed (there’s a bit too much hokey wrestling for that to fully believed but that’s just me), they haven’t quite balanced the office/talent dynamic yet or at least in this one case? Hell, I’ll be bold to put up that even though it went belly up, they didn’t get this nervous about TNA getting Hogan and pretty much every name talent under the sun that was still wrestling AND they were on a cable rival. Is it because they also have a billionaire backing me? Hell, I’m excited about AEW’s debut but I’m confused by WWE’s stance. Honestly? I think how All In went and then how sales for Double or Nothing went got WWE worried more than anything because it showed that fans were ready for an alternative and now they saw the Elite sell out 2 decent sized arenas without TV and just using social media. Now they see those same people have that and then get a pretty big tv deal. While WWE's audience is dwindling more and more and while the PPV shows have been solid this year, the TV has been boring at best and bad at worst. In short, WWE executives now actually have to seriously consider changing things up. And it could potentially bring this up... if AEW does well, do other networks dip back into wrestling?
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 19, 2019 20:43:40 GMT -5
What really stands out to me here in how sad it is and how typically WWE this whole thing is, is the fact that they gave their locker room that vapid speech about one billion social media followers and all of that bogus horseshit that nobody in the company believes just like nobody in the fanbase believes. There's just something so quintessentially WWE about trying to keep its performers feeling the company is the best choice with these nonsensical, clearly worked, clearly meant-for-marketing numbers that don't mean anything.
Morale is in the toilet, people are being punished on television for not signing new contracts, contracts are being extended out of spite in punishment for being injured, everything is a smoldering dumpster fire, things change all the time and the boss simply straight-up decides at times to jsut not f***ing care about you anymore and nothing will fix it, but look if you add up all of our twitter and Instagram accounts we've got a whole billion different people watching our show, which you'll never get anywhere else!
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on May 19, 2019 21:47:18 GMT -5
Did Cool Mom Steph do a dance?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 22:27:26 GMT -5
I chuckled at the "compete with video games" part. While that's technically not 100% untrue (since the Raw thread has indeed seen the occasional comment of "ok, my PS4 has finished installing this game, see ya") it's still funny that that's somehow notable competition. Technically 'restaurants' are also competition, most of those serve delicious foods on Monday nights! I can confirm the restaurant part last monday I didn’t watch raw but I was at a restaurant while it was taking place and the food was indeed delicious.2 THUMBS UP TO DELICIOUS FOOD!!!
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on May 19, 2019 23:39:48 GMT -5
WWE fears AEW for many reasons, most of which have to do with Vince's deepest fears and insecurities.
AEW is owned by a member of the same family that owns an English Premier League football team and an NFL team. Vince's dream of the XFL as an alternative to the NFL is undercut, in his mind, by the fact that the Khans could buy into both that league _and_ probably the wealthiest sports league on the planet. Vince cannot compete with that kind of money, and Tony Khan can extend himself, if he chose, into WWE territory in a heartbeat. It also means access to major TV networks (TNT among them) and to TV production grades that'll make Kevin Dunn look even more like an amateur with a Camcorder.
Second is who is running the show and what they can bring. The sons of one Virgil Runnels would have had access to his wisdom throughout their lives together and, especially, to his ideas on booking. They also have access to a wide array of other former bookers and pro wrestlers and managers and executives, many of whom may have been burned by Vince over the years and who would love to help Dusty's kids stick it to Vince.
Third, they also have good rapport with a number of other promotions in North America, in the UK, and with NJPW. Those companies will have no trouble working with AEW on the bigger shows or with coordinating dates for their stars (as long as they get a cut from the deal.
Fourth, they have access to talent, including WWE talent. AEW's central talent has worked with most of WWE's current roster additions from the last five years _at minimum_, and can wait for those contracts to expire before putting out the feelers (some aren't that long off.) While this may save WWE having to pay out on those non-compete periods, it will mean that AEW will, over time and success, hurt WWE's recruiting and retaining power in ways and with talent they can't fathom missing.
The fifth, and biggest reason for WWE to fear is that AEW has the potential to expose the McMahons' central weakness - their shame over and contempt for the source of their fortune. Everything that Vince, Jr. has done since 2001 _at least_ has had the long-term plan of transitioning his company away from the wrestling promotion and towards a media production company. The only member of the family who gives a toss about the business and the craft, without feeling the need to put himself on the throne at all times, is Triple H - and even then it took over twenty years of being told off, criticised, harangued, harassed and threatened by fans and talent to reach the point at which he could conceive of and maintain NXT. Even now, however, his words and guidance are being turned to ashes by his father-in-law's manic obsession with becoming "bigger than 'rasslin'", his wife's need for status and his brother-in-law's dissolute need to be accepted. Only he sees the end of this road they're on, and his shouts are increasingly being lost in the wind.
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Post by Bo Rida on May 20, 2019 3:35:08 GMT -5
It's like 1984, WWE need an external threat both in reality and kayfabe. If they don't have one they invent it. If there's nothing they fight between wwe brands.
They had wcw. They kept fighting that war long after it was won (see hhh Vs Sting). Mma, Hollywood, nwo, Nexus, PTC, media, courts, streaming, wos, videogames, Aew.
Doesn't matter as long as there's a fight to be had. Difference is this time they're in a creative tailspin and the competition is real.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on May 20, 2019 4:29:48 GMT -5
So here’s my question; why do WWE fear AEW so much? Sure, they have a TV deal, and are acquiring talents WWE might have wanted but...they haven’t put on a show yet and if the PAC thing is to be believed (there’s a bit too much hokey wrestling for that to fully believed but that’s just me), they haven’t quite balanced the office/talent dynamic yet or at least in this one case? Hell, I’ll be bold to put up that even though it went belly up, they didn’t get this nervous about TNA getting Hogan and pretty much every name talent under the sun that was still wrestling AND they were on a cable rival. Is it because they also have a billionaire backing me? Hell, I’m excited about AEW’s debut but I’m confused by WWE’s stance. I think the difference is that TNA was kind of built up slowly / relied on older stars for it's hype, also WWE was riding high at the time. AEW has a lot of hype and is centred around youth whilst WWE's current ratings are low and morale is apparently bad. Perhaps WWE have seen what NJPW are doing and are concerned AEW is the way that explodes on the international market? As a lapsed wrestling fan, I haven't watch a ppv since (goes to check ...) around Wrestlemania 26 whilst I haven't watched raw or smackdown in years. This AEW thing though has me interested again.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,510
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on May 20, 2019 5:01:03 GMT -5
A billion social media followers does not equal a billion paying costumers WWE.
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Post by eJm on May 20, 2019 5:18:31 GMT -5
I think it’s just me looking at what I’m seeing and wondering why a company like isn’t cynical about it lasting because of other false dawns, I guess.
Like, again, AEW doing well benefits everyone but it’s like...this time next year, the company could go bankrupt and the TV deal could flop and everyone could turn out to have their own PAC like preferences.
Or they could sign Vince Russo, who knows?
WWE fearing them right now just seems slightly ridiculous with the foresight they seem to rarely have for anything else.
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on May 20, 2019 5:37:17 GMT -5
WWE's fear of AEW really makes absolutely no sense, especially in light of them coming off as super incompetent from the jump with this PAC situation. H-have you not watched WWE in the last fifteen years? Competence isn't exactly their strong suit either. WWE fears AEW for many reasons, most of which have to do with Vince's deepest fears and insecurities. AEW is owned by a member of the same family that owns an English Premier League football team and an NFL team. Vince's dream of the XFL as an alternative to the NFL is undercut, in his mind, by the fact that the Khans could buy into both that league _and_ probably the wealthiest sports league on the planet. Vince cannot compete with that kind of money, and Tony Khan can extend himself, if he chose, into WWE territory in a heartbeat. It also means access to major TV networks (TNT among them) and to TV production grades that'll make Kevin Dunn look even more like an amateur with a Camcorder. Second is who is running the show and what they can bring. The sons of one Virgil Runnels would have had access to his wisdom throughout their lives together and, especially, to his ideas on booking. They also have access to a wide array of other former bookers and pro wrestlers and managers and executives, many of whom may have been burned by Vince over the years and who would love to help Dusty's kids stick it to Vince. Third, they also have good rapport with a number of other promotions in North America, in the UK, and with NJPW. Those companies will have no trouble working with AEW on the bigger shows or with coordinating dates for their stars (as long as they get a cut from the deal. Fourth, they have access to talent, including WWE talent. AEW's central talent has worked with most of WWE's current roster additions from the last five years _at minimum_, and can wait for those contracts to expire before putting out the feelers (some aren't that long off.) While this may save WWE having to pay out on those non-compete periods, it will mean that AEW will, over time and success, hurt WWE's recruiting and retaining power in ways and with talent they can't fathom missing. The fifth, and biggest reason for WWE to fear is that AEW has the potential to expose the McMahons' central weakness - their shame over and contempt for the source of their fortune. Everything that Vince, Jr. has done since 2001 _at least_ has had the long-term plan of transitioning his company away from the wrestling promotion and towards a media production company. The only member of the family who gives a toss about the business and the craft, without feeling the need to put himself on the throne at all times, is Triple H - and even then it took over twenty years of being told off, criticised, harangued, harassed and threatened by fans and talent to reach the point at which he could conceive of and maintain NXT. Even now, however, his words and guidance are being turned to ashes by his father-in-law's manic obsession with becoming "bigger than 'rasslin'", his wife's need for status and his brother-in-law's dissolute need to be accepted. Only he sees the end of this road they're on, and his shouts are increasingly being lost in the wind. I actually think this point is a really strong one that is getting overlooked by a lot of people as AEW is coming ever closer to existing. By a lot of people's accounts from the time period, even people not necessarily on the inner circle but merely from being around and observing at the time and being able to recount incidents, Vince has always had a thing about Dusty Rhodes. Not some deep seeded hate like with Ted or Warrior or later on with Savage and Jarrett. The prevailing impression always seemed to be that he saw him as an equal, as a rival, and that both scared Vince a little and lit a bit of a fire under his ass that led to the occasional pot shot at Dusty. Because while Vince very much thrives off of competition, he's also always been nervous about a fair fight or a fight where he may be out gunned. He's very much a bully in that regard. And for a while there, when Dusty had the book, Dusty was proving to be a thorn in WWE's then expansion across the country's side. Vince may be out of touch, but even for someone like him, I feel like he would naturally be weary of Dusty's kids having the same ability to challenge him and that'd likely be concerning to him all the more now that he's older and not who he was when he went head to head creatively with the likes of Dusty Rhodes. Especially after the success of All In, Double or Nothing and the TV deal.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 20, 2019 5:52:51 GMT -5
If I have to venture a guess, I'd say it's partly what some folks here are saying plus one more factor - AEW comes into the game with deeper pockets than TNA had, during a time when WWE is on a pretty notable downswing instead of just the slower, steadier decline they were on circa 2002-2012, and already showed they're capable of doing something TNA never could in the states, sell out arenas based on little more than social media hype and a few notable non-WWE names within the industry. In that regard, while TNA was able to do things like land a Spike TV deal and bring in Kurt Angle and Christian, AEW is already much more of a player, and WWE's in a less steady position with regards to fan engagement.
But the second key factor, I think, is how WWE has clearly transitioned toward wanting to control the entirety of the wrestling world, and how an outfit like AEW can threaten that. The rise of NXT, signing everybody and their mother to a contract, the way the UK territory opened, the apparent desire to replicate that in Japan and elsewhere, turning EVOLVE and some of those related companies into a feeder system, etc., it was to bring everything (or as much as is feasible) under WWE's umbrella, specifically to cut off any potential big-money competition from springing up ever again. Didn't work out.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on May 20, 2019 6:34:21 GMT -5
TNA at their peak had a track record of incompetence so there's little don't Vince expected them to blow it sooner, rather than later. With AEW, he's going up against a fellow billionaire who isn't just signing the same old names that drove other promotions into the ground, they got a TV deal, they've got buzz, they have a budget that makes them seem like an alternative for talent too, giving guys leverage in negotiations... It's a perfect storm of Vince's nightmares.
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