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Post by bmfjules on May 28, 2019 23:05:45 GMT -5
We all look back at this year as the pinnacle of Attitude Era success, and for sure it was, but what's amazing to me is how they pulled off a year's worth of PPV with what was an absolutely devastated main event roster.
Post WM 14, they have lost Bret and Shawn who had basically been the anchors of WWE PPVs for the past two or three years at least, right on the heels of losing Hall (who despite being over was never a main eventner in WWE) and Nash.
So basically, the only guys they had besides Austin that were pushed at the main event level were Taker, Kane, and Mankind. That's it. And if you look back at those PPVs, pretty much every one of them between Wrestlemania until they pulled the trigger on the Rock at Survivor Series featured some combination of those three guys vs SCSA. Contrast that with today where there's literally 15-20 guys on the roster who could main event a PPV right now, and double that who could be slid into that spot with a few weeks build up.
I mean, obviously, WWE did just fine with the scant few main eventers they had at the time, but with hindsight, who was on the roster that they could have shoved into the main event scene as a credible heel or face to provide some variety at the top?
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Post by CeilingFan on May 28, 2019 23:11:54 GMT -5
Ken Shamrock.
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Post by bmfjules on May 28, 2019 23:16:05 GMT -5
Yes. Only knock against him is his promo or lack thereof, but there's no reason (other than it just wasn't what Vince wanted) that you could not have protected Shamrock just like they protected Kane. If he NEVER loses clean, or even sells for anyone until he faces Austin, and you pair him up with Vince to cut promos for him, you have a very strong main event IMO. Shamrock could have been the first choice for a clean cut "corporate champion" and then after he fails to beat Austin, Vince brow beats him one times too many, he snaps and you have a number two babyface. |
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 28, 2019 23:25:36 GMT -5
They had Taker, Mankind, Kane, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Vince, Austin.
The main event was huge back then, which is why it worked. Now the main event is AJ Styles again, for the 20 month in a row.
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ChitownKnight
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Post by ChitownKnight on May 28, 2019 23:32:41 GMT -5
They had Taker, Mankind, Kane, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Vince, Austin. The main event was huge back then, which is why it worked. Now the main event is AJ Styles again, for the 20 month in a row. AJ, Seth, Owens, Bryan, Kofi, Roman, Orton, Nakamura, Rusev, Wyatt, McIntyre, Corbin, Lashley, and Finn are all credible guys they can slot in ppv main events for either brand |
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Post by bmfjules on May 28, 2019 23:33:01 GMT -5
They had Taker, Mankind, Kane, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Vince, Austin. The main event was huge back then, which is why it worked. Now the main event is AJ Styles again, for the 20 month in a row. In mid 1999 they had HHH and Rock as bonafide main eventers. In 98 both were upper-midcard babyfaces. As pointed out above, the number of options they have for main events is far bigger now than they had at any point in 98. The fact that they booked more compelling matches with an available main event crew of four guys vs. what they have today is more about the quality of the booking then vs. now rather than the available options. |
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on May 29, 2019 0:16:41 GMT -5
Besides Shamrock, I think Owen could've plausibly moved back up into the main events if they hadn't been worried about him leaving as soon as his contract was up.
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Post by bmfjules on May 29, 2019 0:31:32 GMT -5
Besides Shamrock, I think Owen could've plausibly moved back up into the main events if they hadn't been worried about him leaving as soon as his contract was up. I loved Owen. My thought with him moving into a main event spot in 98 is, who does he work with? After HBK leaves, his most natural main event rival is gone, and due to recent personal history, Austin probably isn't going to sign off on a program with him at that point. HHH, as said, was a mid carder and Owen, who started off his feud with HHH as a cool "Black Heart" lone survivor etc... ended the feud as damaged goods booking wise and then gets shoved into the NOD. For Owen to work in the main event in 98, in my mind you have to start "re-booking" him before that disastrous Triple H feud. |
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on May 29, 2019 1:23:54 GMT -5
Besides Shamrock, I think Owen could've plausibly moved back up into the main events if they hadn't been worried about him leaving as soon as his contract was up. I loved Owen. My thought with him moving into a main event spot in 98 is, who does he work with? After HBK leaves, his most natural main event rival is gone, and due to recent personal history, Austin probably isn't going to sign off on a program with him at that point. HHH, as said, was a mid carder and Owen, who started off his feud with HHH as a cool "Black Heart" lone survivor etc... ended the feud as damaged goods booking wise and then gets shoved into the NOD. For Owen to work in the main event in 98, in my mind you have to start "re-booking" him before that disastrous Triple H feud. I agree, within a few months of the screwjob most of Owen's momentum was gone, but if they'd wanted to his feud against HHH could've left him looking a lot stronger. DX were the top heels in early '98 and Austin and Owen were being presented as the two main guys fighting against them; if they'd kept up that dynamic, had Owen decisively kick Hunter's ass like Austin did Shawn's, I feel like he could've emerged as a major secondary face, and been in a position to go up against 'Taker/Kane/Rock in world title matches once Austin was screwed out of the belt. I completely understand their reasons for not wanting to build Owen up to a main event role, but as a performer I think he could've definitely pulled it off. |
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 29, 2019 2:11:47 GMT -5
They had Taker, Mankind, Kane, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Vince, Austin. The main event was huge back then, which is why it worked. Now the main event is AJ Styles again, for the 20 month in a row. AJ, Seth, Owens, Bryan, Kofi, Roman, Orton, Nakamura, Rusev, Wyatt, McIntyre, Corbin, Lashley, and Finn are all credible guys they can slot in ppv main events for either brand All could be. But, not! |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 29, 2019 2:58:47 GMT -5
A strong midcard does help though.
The current roster is an inverted pyramid as far as people who are on TV. You either main event or don't matter. Then dozens more don't even register on TV.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on May 29, 2019 4:39:01 GMT -5
I would say going into 1998 the only true main event stars they had were Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker.
They had Steve Austin and Mick Foley who were upper mid card that had been pushed solidly over 1997, but hadnt had that "breakout" yet (Austin was heading there)
Then there was a handful of mid carders who had been dabbled with and had the potential to break out in The Rock, HHH and Ken Shamrock.
Then you had a hot new act in Kane who could easily be pushed to the moon given the storyline he was in.
Compared to WCW, who was brimming full with true main eventers I was always worried for WWE at this point, I mean going into 1998 they had Hollywood Hulk Hogan, Sting, Macho Man Randy Savage, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Ric Flair, Bret The Hitman Hart, The Giant, Lex Luger, Diamond Dallas Page.
In hindsight, WWE was in a hotter position, because WCW had peaked with all of those guys were WWE was in the rebuilding phase of building new stars. The departures of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels opened up opportunities for the likes of Mankind, Kane, The Rock, Triple H and Ken Shamrock through the year.
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Post by celtics543 on May 29, 2019 6:09:48 GMT -5
I actually think the smaller main event scene helped because it really bolstered the mid card. You had Austin/Taker/Kane/Mankind at the top and then you had Rock/HHH/Shamrock etc in the next tier down which is a wildly talented mid card. If you had elevated those guys up and made them the ones that ate the pins against the actual top guys then you would've ruined them going forward. By keeping Rock and HHH in the mid card until they were ready they were able to look strong when they finally ascended to main event level. People in this thread keep saying that today's main event scene is huge but really it's just watered down. It's the old saying in football, if you have two quarterbacks then you have zero quarterbacks. You can't have 15 guys who are "main eventers" because what you've got is 2 guys fighting over the big belt and 13 other guys who are twiddling their thumbs or fighting for a belt that you've already positioned as beneath them.
Realistically the business has always worked better when numbers were low and turnover was somewhat high. It's a positive but guys are staying healthier and making better decisions now so they stick around longer but that's making them stale. Roster turnover isn't what it was in the 80's, 90's or early 2000's and that hurts the business. If you're ready to ascend a new main event talent then someone has to take a step back. In the old days guys like Hogan, Austin, Savage, Warrior, Rock, Bret, Shawn, or whoever else were always on the way out when they got replaced as top dog, either to a new company or retiring. Today guys stick around so they get stale and are directionless. What does Kofi do when he loses the title? A couple return matches and then what? He can't just go back to the midcard but he also can't just keep challenging for the title, so he's in limbo where he wins some and he loses some until they figure out what else to do with him. It's the same problem they've had with so many guys lately, Bray, Owens, Finn, McIntyre, Nakamura, Lashley, Corbin, Rusev etc and even with Ambrose before he left. Creative isn't good enough to find other things for them to do and fans see it as a serious demotion.
1998/1999 had the perfect amount of main event guys. Five or six guys being in the main event is ideal because they can all fit in one super match if necessary and it's a small enough group that you can have the guys not involved in title feuds fight over some personal conflict. If WWE just chose like 6 guys to go with as the top guys then they could really bolster the midcard and add a new lower card title, not the stupid 24/7 one, something like a TV or European title.
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Post by Cyno on May 30, 2019 0:04:47 GMT -5
What helped was in that era you had a lot of blurring between spots on the card, so you had midcard and upper midcard guys mixing it up with the main eventers in ways that usually made both sides look good. And taking advantage of one of the strengths of Vince Russo, everyone felt like they mattered. Even the lower end of the card felt important because there was a storyline they were booked in that hooked the fans.
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