chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 2, 2021 13:42:17 GMT -5
With the Hawkeye show on the way, I'd like to see the MCU characters deal with Clint Barton's serial killer antics in the 5 years since the Infinity Gauntlet snap. He wasn't a serial killer. He was a vigilante targeting cartels, triads and other criminals |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 2, 2021 14:41:36 GMT -5
And murdering them.
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Feyrhausen
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 2, 2021 14:51:29 GMT -5
Yeah but in the movies they have never been shy about killing. Stark even referred to Hawkeye and Widow as assassins in the first Avengers. So while Hawkeye may have gone overboard with the whole thing they could justify it as unusual circumstances with the shape the world was in. |
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 2, 2021 14:54:15 GMT -5
And what pray tell where they doing during that time. Running lollipop and kitten factories? |
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Post by Bruce Mother Wayne on Jan 2, 2021 14:59:25 GMT -5
With the Hawkeye show on the way, I'd like to see the MCU characters deal with Clint Barton's serial killer antics in the 5 years since the Infinity Gauntlet snap. He wasn't a serial killer. He was a vigilante targeting cartels, triads and other criminals But vigilantism and serial killing are not mutually exclusive? Spider-Man is a vigilante who is not a serial killer. Carnage is a serial killer who is not a vigilante. The Punisher is someone who is both a serial killer and a vigilante. As of Endgame, MCU Hawkeye is very much in the Punisher-vein of justifying his serial killing by framing it as vigilantism. While it might seem silly to complain about a character becoming a serial killer when Clint's main form of offense, his M.O., is shooting people with pointy sticks, I think there's enough difference between Hawkeye's killings in Avengers 1 and 2 versus Avengers 4. In Avengers 1, he was brainwashed by Loki's pokey stick, and had no agency or control over himself when he killed dozens of people, including several SHIELD agents. Moreover, he immediately expresses remorse for his actions when he comes out of his brainwashed state. In Avengers 2, he was reacting to a combat situation against HYDRA, the sci-fi Nazis of the MCU, and was quickly shown to be out of his element because he's the only Avenger who was hurt in the raid because he could put up neither a good offense or defense. In Avengers 4, he's obviously been hunting bad guys for a while. According to War Machine, Hawkeye's also been gorily killing people, as was the case with the Mexican cartel that War Machine mentions to Black Widow. Barton's murders are premeditated compared to those from previous movies. Hawkeye justifies his actions by analogizing himself with Thanos, the bad guy of the last movie and of Endgame, when he says to the Yakuza boss, "They got Thanos. You get me." His actions are no different in effect than what Thanos did in terms of "balancing the universe" by killing lots of people. That Hawkeye can't or won't realize that he's also "the baddie" at that moment from Endgame is baffling and frustrating. The irony is Hawkeye was only able to experience the loss of his family first-hand because he took a plea deal to get out of the Raft. And he was sent to the Raft because he, like several of the other Avengers, flouted the conventions of the Sokovia Accords. The premise of the Accords, if we take the plot of Captain America 3 seriously, is that superheroes can no longer act as judges, juries, and executioners, which they have unilaterally done throughout the previous MCU movies. But a couple of movies after Captain America 3, Hawkeye goes around the world and acts like judge, jury, and executioner. Hawkeye is now the living, breathing, walking embodiment of why the Sokovia Accords should be in place. If, in fact, the Sokovia Accords are still in place a post-Thanos-snap world, which we barely see in Endgame anyway. If the show addresses any of this at all, and in a meaningful way, I'll have much less to complain about, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Disney+ series glosses over all of Hawkeye's history to focus on the funner elements of the Fraction/Aja run of Hawkeye comics, like Pizza Dog, the Tracksuit Draculas, and the banter between Kate and Clint. But the Disney+ show doesn't have to be either/or: have the fun stuff, but also deal with the fallout of Hawkeye's history in the MCU. Otherwise, what was the point of giving Hawkeye all that narrative baggage in the first place if you're not going to do anything with it? |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 2, 2021 15:25:17 GMT -5
That Hawkeye can't or won't realize that he's also "the baddie" at that moment from Endgame is baffling and frustrating. He pretty much does though. He knows and accepts that he's become every bit as bad as Thanos. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 2, 2021 15:34:42 GMT -5
And what pray tell where they doing during that time. Running lollipop and kitten factories? Who said they were? Still doesn't make him not a murderer no matter who he's killing. And I know the MCU and hell action movies are pretty lax about killing obviously, it's still murdering though. Someone being a vigilante doesn't make them not a murderer. |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 2, 2021 15:52:39 GMT -5
The MCU has been incredibly lax about it, all 6 of the primary Avengers have killed. Some have a pretty high body count. The Guardians seem to have no qualms about killing when they have to. Not many, if any, of the main players of the MCU have the moral high ground to preach about killing.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 2, 2021 16:19:58 GMT -5
There's Spider-man and I'm not remembering if Ant Man killed Yellowjacket or not. Anyone else,?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 2, 2021 16:21:37 GMT -5
Or wait, would one consider the instant kill setting on the Spidey suit on the Infinity War dog alien whatevers killing? Were those things sentient?
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 2, 2021 16:29:22 GMT -5
There's Spider-man and I'm not remembering if Ant Man killed Yellowjacket or not. Anyone else,? Spider-man and Ant Man were the only ones I could think of, but you might have a point with the “Insta Kill” thing |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 2, 2021 16:31:39 GMT -5
There's Spider-man and I'm not remembering if Ant Man killed Yellowjacket or not. Anyone else,? We were meant to presume he died, since in the first movie Janet was also presumed dead. With her return in the sequel we can probably conclude Yellowjacket is trapped in the Quantum Realm. Ant-Man definitely killed Cull Obsidian in Endgame though. With an assist from Spidey.  Or wait, would one consider the instant kill setting on the Spidey suit on the Infinity War dog alien whatevers killing? Were those things sentient? Until shown otherwise, I'm gonna say those are decidedly not sentient. |
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Jan 2, 2021 17:03:38 GMT -5
WandaVision is a sitcom?
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Post by King Boo on Jan 2, 2021 17:18:25 GMT -5
I get the impression it'll really be a drama, but with a backdrop of sitcom style scenarios. I could be way off base, though. |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 2, 2021 17:38:40 GMT -5
I get the impression it'll really be a drama, but with a backdrop of sitcom style scenarios. I could be way off base, though. That’s my assumption. They’ve said every episode is modeled after a different sitcom era but I figure it’s gonna escalate in seriousness as the show progresses. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 2, 2021 17:42:56 GMT -5
I get the impression it'll really be a drama, but with a backdrop of sitcom style scenarios. I could be way off base, though. That’s my assumption. They’ve said every episode is modeled after a different sitcom era but I figure it’s gonna escalate in seriousness as the show progresses. Yeah, the trailers make it pretty obvious that it's starting out pretty light-hearted but has a sinister undercurrent that grows as Wanda's mental state becomes more unravelled. Given that Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness has been announced as the first MCU horror movie, it would be quite an achievement to have a straight up sitcom be the direct lead-in to it. |
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Post by The Captain on Jan 2, 2021 18:47:05 GMT -5
And what pray tell where they doing during that time. Running lollipop and kitten factories? Who said they were? Still doesn't make him not a murderer no matter who he's killing. And I know the MCU and hell action movies are pretty lax about killing obviously, it's still murdering though. Someone being a vigilante doesn't make them not a murderer. Yeah, killing a killer is still murder even though it's justifiable. It's not like Clint's acting in self-defense.
Ironically, for all the DC fans and WB execs looking for a way to set the DC movies apart from the MCU ones, there's an easy one for you: don't make your superheroes killers unless it's a complete last resort.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 2, 2021 18:52:23 GMT -5
I get the impression it'll really be a drama, but with a backdrop of sitcom style scenarios. I could be way off base, though. That’s my assumption. They’ve said every episode is modeled after a different sitcom era but I figure it’s gonna escalate in seriousness as the show progresses. The sitcom thing is her retreating inside her own mind of what her ideal world is up to and including Vision resurrection and the imaginary twins. Losing that is what will make her go full bonkers. I've been predicting Nightmare as the villain though I've heard Agatha Harkness is who the rumor is who Kathryn Hahn's character will be. She of course is a mentor and actual witch in the books. She's not villainous so I'm wondering if maybe they don't combine her and Nightmare in some way. Nightmare may not be a factor at all, but I'm sticking with my guess since he's a Dr Strange villain. Although, we also know Kang is coming to the MCU and his future self Immortus messed with Wanda's mind in the books too. Mephisto is also another rumor. I'm sticking with Nightmare till I'm wrong though. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 4, 2021 12:55:09 GMT -5
Vision: "And they lived happily ever after."
Reality: "I'm about to end this man's whole career."
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 4, 2021 13:04:36 GMT -5
Vision: "And they lived happily ever after." Reality: "I'm about to end this man's whole career." She about to rip the universe apart Wolverine stabs everybody so Jackman might as well get jacked for his 30 sec cameo |
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