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Post by eJm on Aug 17, 2019 2:14:49 GMT -5
I can't see a scenario Sinclair would cut them unless there's a cheaper alternative for content and considering a company of their size and financial standing...there's really not many other options out there. If they just want cheap content, they could forget about running their own wrestling promotion and just air Impact. Or MLW. Or Championship Wrestling From Hollywood. They don't have to own the company whose show they air, or spend any money to do it, either. All of those promotions would love to be on all of the Sinclair stations. Eh, paying a licensing fee to another company to air their content instead of just owning it isn’t really that much cheaper. If you own the content as a whole, you can get the money back later on through VOD or other means. Can’t really do that through just airing another promotion.
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Post by Deputy Muscle on Aug 17, 2019 2:19:14 GMT -5
They just seem to have been stuck in a booking rut for at least 12 months. No idea how to promote guys who should be bigger than they are. Quite how you can take guys like Rush and make him seem like just another dude is beyond me.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 17, 2019 6:34:53 GMT -5
I can't see a scenario Sinclair would cut them unless there's a cheaper alternative for content and considering a company of their size and financial standing...there's really not many other options out there. If they just want cheap content, they could forget about running their own wrestling promotion and just air Impact. Or MLW. Or Championship Wrestling From Hollywood. They don't have to own the company whose show they air, or spend any money to do it, either. All of those promotions would love to be on all of the Sinclair stations. When you license out someone else's programming for your station, the only money you can make back on the product is through selling ad space on the show, and you need to how you sell enough ads to break even. That's a hard sell even for ROH. But owning the company top to bottom means you hold on to everything about it; production for a wrestling show should, when business is good, be self-sufficient, the result of each show financially breaking even on the cost of putting it on plus a tidy profit to cover other elements of running a company. From there, your online merchandise and anything you can gain exporting the show or selling back episodes for syndicaton is all extra money. But Sinclar also gets certain guarantees that the place won't close up shop with a quickness, which anyone else could do at a moment's notice, and they get a measure of authority over the programming. As an owner of channels, the holy grail is content you own that you can in some way send overseas or sell into syndication. But under that, ownership of key programming is a big deal too, if you simply pay production companies to produce stuff for you without owning it, it's only 'yours' so much.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,722
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 17, 2019 12:20:10 GMT -5
Question - why are RoH running a show in Bolton? Why not Manchester?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 13:55:29 GMT -5
If they just want cheap content, they could forget about running their own wrestling promotion and just air Impact. Or MLW. Or Championship Wrestling From Hollywood. They don't have to own the company whose show they air, or spend any money to do it, either. All of those promotions would love to be on all of the Sinclair stations. Eh, paying a licensing fee to another company to air their content instead of just owning it isn’t really that much cheaper. If you own the content as a whole, you can get the money back later on through VOD or other means. Can’t really do that through just airing another promotion. Except... in recent years, groups like Impact and Championship Wrestling From Hollywood have been airing their program similar to how NWA Wildside used to... for no rights fees. They just want the show on the air somewhere. The promotions aren't buying paid programming, but they're also not getting paid. The only way Sinclair owning/operating ROH is more beneficial than airing another wrestling program for free is if ROH itself is profitable. If it's losing any money, it's silly to continue running it.
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Post by eJm on Aug 17, 2019 14:13:03 GMT -5
Eh, paying a licensing fee to another company to air their content instead of just owning it isn’t really that much cheaper. If you own the content as a whole, you can get the money back later on through VOD or other means. Can’t really do that through just airing another promotion. Except... in recent years, groups like Impact and Championship Wrestling From Hollywood have been airing their program similar to how NWA Wildside used to... for no rights fees. They just want the show on the air somewhere. The promotions aren't buying paid programming, but they're also not getting paid. The only way Sinclair owning/operating ROH is more beneficial than airing another wrestling program for free is if ROH itself is profitable. If it's losing any money, it's silly to continue running it. Sure, but again, if you have the company itself and it goes under, you can then use the footage you own in your own ways, move the staff to other positions if they're useful enough for them to go there and have all the rights to try and bring it back. You don't have to worry about if the company can't run, you have a hole in your schedule you can't fill and have to just stick reruns in there. If Sinclair worried about making money from the content, they wouldn't have brought ROH even during its more successful years. They brought it because it was cheap and they can plug the holes if need be because it wasn't going to lose a tonne even if it was losing money. Also, it's original content you can brag about having compared to rivals. It's not great original content but it's better than no original content.
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Post by octopus on Aug 17, 2019 17:43:15 GMT -5
Eh, paying a licensing fee to another company to air their content instead of just owning it isn’t really that much cheaper. If you own the content as a whole, you can get the money back later on through VOD or other means. Can’t really do that through just airing another promotion. Except... in recent years, groups like Impact and Championship Wrestling From Hollywood have been airing their program similar to how NWA Wildside used to... for no rights fees. They just want the show on the air somewhere. The promotions aren't buying paid programming, but they're also not getting paid. The only way Sinclair owning/operating ROH is more beneficial than airing another wrestling program for free is if ROH itself is profitable. If it's losing any money, it's silly to continue running it. Twitch pay Impact. And believe it or not, so do Pursuit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 22:34:38 GMT -5
On that note, I've looked at tickets for Vegas next month for Death Before Dishonor and the following TV taping, and yikes. A couple years ago, I had to go secondary market to sit at the back row in this building for 16th Anniversary. Last year, they elected to run the Orleans to increase seating capacity (they ended up running 2000 in a 10,000 seater, but probably made more money not having to turn anyone away). Now, they're struggling to fill one of the smallest venues in their rotation. As best I can tell almost two weeks later, night 1's sold 24 more tickets and night 2's sold 9 more. Yeesh.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Aug 21, 2019 1:36:58 GMT -5
On that note, I've looked at tickets for Vegas next month for Death Before Dishonor and the following TV taping, and yikes. A couple years ago, I had to go secondary market to sit at the back row in this building for 16th Anniversary. Last year, they elected to run the Orleans to increase seating capacity (they ended up running 2000 in a 10,000 seater, but probably made more money not having to turn anyone away). Now, they're struggling to fill one of the smallest venues in their rotation. i always wonder about those one or two tickets that have been bought out in the middle of nowhere with none bought anywhere near them
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Post by Shy Guy on Aug 21, 2019 3:50:17 GMT -5
On that note, I've looked at tickets for Vegas next month for Death Before Dishonor and the following TV taping, and yikes. A couple years ago, I had to go secondary market to sit at the back row in this building for 16th Anniversary. Last year, they elected to run the Orleans to increase seating capacity (they ended up running 2000 in a 10,000 seater, but probably made more money not having to turn anyone away). Now, they're struggling to fill one of the smallest venues in their rotation. i always wonder about those one or two tickets that have been bought out in the middle of nowhere with none bought anywhere near them theyre gonna move to closer seats during the show, but not spend money on the better seats. with sales like that, the company is probbly going to be moving everyone closer anyways to make it look more full. not a bad endgame strategy for those people with the bad seats
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Post by corndog on Aug 21, 2019 9:54:00 GMT -5
Except... in recent years, groups like Impact and Championship Wrestling From Hollywood have been airing their program similar to how NWA Wildside used to... for no rights fees. They just want the show on the air somewhere. The promotions aren't buying paid programming, but they're also not getting paid. The only way Sinclair owning/operating ROH is more beneficial than airing another wrestling program for free is if ROH itself is profitable. If it's losing any money, it's silly to continue running it. Sure, but again, if you have the company itself and it goes under, you can then use the footage you own in your own ways, move the staff to other positions if they're useful enough for them to go there and have all the rights to try and bring it back. You don't have to worry about if the company can't run, you have a hole in your schedule you can't fill and have to just stick reruns in there. If Sinclair worried about making money from the content, they wouldn't have brought ROH even during its more successful years. They brought it because it was cheap and they can plug the holes if need be because it wasn't going to lose a tonne even if it was losing money. Also, it's original content you can brag about having compared to rivals. It's not great original content but it's better than no original content. If Sinclair bought the entire library of ROH, they could always air classic episodes. I'm also curious how much WWE would pay for that library considering they have quite a few alumni on their roster. But with how poor ROH is drawing, I don't see how it's not hemorrhaging money with a fairly decent roster that can't be cheap. As far as making money from the content, I am sure they were making plenty of money from 2014 until the MSG show. I also see them making some heads roll before ending production to see if they can get things back on track.
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Post by eJm on Aug 21, 2019 9:59:36 GMT -5
Sure, but again, if you have the company itself and it goes under, you can then use the footage you own in your own ways, move the staff to other positions if they're useful enough for them to go there and have all the rights to try and bring it back. You don't have to worry about if the company can't run, you have a hole in your schedule you can't fill and have to just stick reruns in there. If Sinclair worried about making money from the content, they wouldn't have brought ROH even during its more successful years. They brought it because it was cheap and they can plug the holes if need be because it wasn't going to lose a tonne even if it was losing money. Also, it's original content you can brag about having compared to rivals. It's not great original content but it's better than no original content. If Sinclair bought the entire library of ROH, they could always air classic episodes. I'm also curious how much WWE would pay for that library considering they have quite a few alumni on their roster. But with how poor ROH is drawing, I don't see how it's not hemorrhaging money with a fairly decent roster that can't be cheap. As far as making money from the content, I am sure they were making plenty of money from 2014 until the MSG show. I also see them making some heads roll before ending production to see if they can get things back on track. You do have a point but again, the point of ROH isn't to be any kind of significant drawing brand. It's to have cheap content and I highly doubt it's haemorrhaging as much money as people think it is just for the sake of putting some exclusive new content on slots it needs to fill. Hell, it's barely there to make money from. And it isn't really something to brag about to advertisers if they say "Hey, we brought this wrestling company and we're just showing the old stuff from it" and also bad press if they said that after essentially wiping the company frome existance.
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Post by realist on Aug 21, 2019 10:12:52 GMT -5
At this point, why doesn't another company like WWE or AEW purchase Ring of Honor? I can't imagine it would be that expensive and it would likely be worth it for the video library.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Aug 21, 2019 10:17:22 GMT -5
i always wonder about those one or two tickets that have been bought out in the middle of nowhere with none bought anywhere near them theyre gonna move to closer seats during the show, but not spend money on the better seats. with sales like that, the company is probbly going to be moving everyone closer anyways to make it look more full. not a bad endgame strategy for those people with the bad seats True. But I’ve seen both happen. At the Summer Supercard Show last weekend there were eight empty seats beside us in the front row and the second and third rows moved up. But then in the stands there were scattered people all over, even some in the last three rows with hundreds of empty seats in front of them. I guess some people are still wholesome and honest
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 21, 2019 10:47:39 GMT -5
Eh, paying a licensing fee to another company to air their content instead of just owning it isn’t really that much cheaper. If you own the content as a whole, you can get the money back later on through VOD or other means. Can’t really do that through just airing another promotion. Except... in recent years, groups like Impact and Championship Wrestling From Hollywood have been airing their program similar to how NWA Wildside used to... for no rights fees. They just want the show on the air somewhere. The promotions aren't buying paid programming, but they're also not getting paid. The only way Sinclair owning/operating ROH is more beneficial than airing another wrestling program for free is if ROH itself is profitable. If it's losing any money, it's silly to continue running it. I can't speak for CWFH and what they're doing, but TNA on Pop went for an alternative to flat rates for a split of ad money. That isn't the same thing as free, and for that matter anyone who is producing their television for zero dollars probably isn't going to have much money outside of just running the shows to put into production quality or growth, which will impact the end product and how much it works as television content. Reruns aren't stellar advertising hits either and they might pull desperately lower ratings, and overall ratings averages and figures may well be an important metric for Sinclair for one reason or another, which would be another good justification for original, Sinclair-only programming. It's a really complex situation that can't be boiled down so simply to just one specific raw number.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 21, 2019 11:26:30 GMT -5
At this point, why doesn't another company like WWE or AEW purchase Ring of Honor? I can't imagine it would be that expensive and it would likely be worth it for the video library. They'd have to be for sale, first.
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Post by realist on Aug 21, 2019 11:29:22 GMT -5
At this point, why doesn't another company like WWE or AEW purchase Ring of Honor? I can't imagine it would be that expensive and it would likely be worth it for the video library. They'd have to be for sale, first. For the right price, everything is for sale.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Aug 21, 2019 11:29:26 GMT -5
At this point, why doesn't another company like WWE or AEW purchase Ring of Honor? I can't imagine it would be that expensive and it would likely be worth it for the video library. They'd have to be for sale, first. Shut up, I can just buy whatever I want, whenever I want! Like your chair.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 15:46:37 GMT -5
At this point, why doesn't another company like WWE or AEW purchase Ring of Honor? I can't imagine it would be that expensive and it would likely be worth it for the video library. WWE licenses the footage they need for documentaries, etc. as needed. Not necessary to buy the entire library to use their footage when they want to. AEW doesn't have its own streaming service in place to make buying another promotion's library worthwhile.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 21, 2019 16:13:00 GMT -5
ROH won't be for sale unless they're actively bleeding money for Sinclair with no positive in sight.
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