The Star Wars Prequels got a score they didn’t deserve

[Deleted]

Rewatching all the Star Wars film in preparation for a live, orchestra backed screening of Empire and good god. This is my second John Williams thread in a while but Anakin vs Obi-Wan alone is worth everything. Such a gorgeous avalanche of motifs to sum up the despair that the film did not earn.

That said, PhantomMenace is ok, but has a bunch of flaws (mostly centred around dialogue and misused actors) and ROTS is still pretty good, but again with some issues. AOTC is shit.

[Cyno]

I thought AOTC had the worst John Williams score of the entire saga, so I'd definitely say it fit there. Granted it still isn't BAD, just not as good as the original trilogy, either sequel, or the other prequels' music.

Phantom Menace and especially Revenge of the Sith had amazing scores though, yeah. There's so much raw emotion in the latter and Duel of the Fates is perhaps the most epic piece in the entire series.

[A Platypus Rave]

Sept 1, 2019 17:56:05 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I thought AOTC had the worst John Williams score of the entire saga, so I'd definitely say it fit there. Granted it still isn't BAD, just not as good as the original trilogy, either sequel, or the other prequels' music.

Phantom Menace and especially Revenge of the Sith had amazing scores though, yeah. There's so much raw emotion in the latter and Duel of the Fates is perhaps the most epic piece in the entire series.

Yeah, I've said there's a reason why Duel of the Fates is one of the few things that constantly gets reused in Star Wars things

[Hit Girl]

The scores are awesome.

Padme's Ruminations is genius, and was pretty much the only scene in the prequels I felt was truly outstanding.

[Deleted]

Every time I think of these movies I shake my head at how they turned out. As a kid they were dope but as an adult there's just so much you see in it that disappoints you. It's like waiting all week to eat at this new restaurant and it ends up being a bad experience.

The music itself was dope, same with the visuals, same with the fights. All that other stuff though, ugh.

[Shark]

Sept 2, 2019 14:24:23 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

The scores are awesome.

Padme's Ruminations is genius, and was pretty much the only scene in the prequels I felt was truly outstanding.

It's a rare scene for Star Wars, especially the prequels, in that it relies on being subtle. Also showed a quality that Hayden Christensen doesn't get enough credit for in that he can convey a ton of emotion in quiet scenes like that.

[Hit Girl]

Sept 2, 2019 14:54:47 GMT -5 Shark said:

Sept 2, 2019 14:24:23 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

The scores are awesome.

Padme's Ruminations is genius, and was pretty much the only scene in the prequels I felt was truly outstanding.

It's a rare scene for Star Wars, especially the prequels, in that it relies on being subtle. Also showed a quality that Hayden Christensen doesn't get enough credit for in that he can convey a ton of emotion in quiet scenes like that.

My theory is that Lucas did not direct that scene.

[Shark]

Sept 2, 2019 14:57:06 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

Sept 2, 2019 14:54:47 GMT -5 Shark said:

It's a rare scene for Star Wars, especially the prequels, in that it relies on being subtle. Also showed a quality that Hayden Christensen doesn't get enough credit for in that he can convey a ton of emotion in quiet scenes like that.

My theory is that Lucas did not direct that scene.

Just did a quick search, but couldn't get an answer. Plenty of discussion about the scene and what made it work, but nothing on if Lucas actually directed it or not.

[Hit Girl]

Sept 2, 2019 15:04:48 GMT -5 Shark said:

Sept 2, 2019 14:57:06 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

My theory is that Lucas did not direct that scene.

Just did a quick search, but couldn't get an answer. Plenty of discussion about the scene and what made it work, but nothing on if Lucas actually directed it or not.

I see three possibilities.

1- He was getting a coffee.

2- He thought "meh this scene is boring. I'm going to go check on the SFX for the lava scene"

3- He fell down and while people were helping him up, someone else directed Hayden and Natalie.

[BrodietheSlayer]

Sept 2, 2019 14:38:16 GMT -5 @kn said:

Every time I think of these movies I shake my head at how they turned out. As a kid they were dope but as an adult there's just so much you see in it that disappoints you. It's like waiting all week to eat at this new restaurant and it ends up being a bad experience.

The music itself was dope, same with the visuals, same with the fights. All that other stuff though, ugh.

And that's why I can't trip too much about the Disney Star Wars movies. I would put even the worst of them (The Last Jedi, although, I don't hate that movie as much as many do...it was just the least of the Star Wars movies Disney has released so far) above those prequels for the reasons you named above.

[Cyno]

I still think it's weird seeing people who grew up with the prequels as their Star Wars movies be really defensive of them, not like the original trilogy at all, and hate on the sequels as much as OT diehards hated on the prequels.

Everything is cyclical. Wouldn't surprise me if in 15-20 years or so we get Sequel Trilogy diehards who think them superior to anything else Star Wars past or future.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Sept 2, 2019 18:00:09 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I still think it's weird seeing people who grew up with the prequels as their Star Wars movies be really defensive of them, not like the original trilogy at all, and hate on the sequels as much as OT diehards hated on the prequels.

Everything is cyclical. Wouldn't surprise me if in 15-20 years or so we get Sequel Trilogy diehards who think them superior to anything else Star Wars past or future.

My best friend's kids grew up on the prequels (they're aged 16-21) and they greatly prefer the prequels to the OT.

[Deleted]

“Battle of the Heroes” from Revenge of the Sith is so goddamn good.

[schizo]

The "Order 66" score is one of my favorites in the trilogy. Just a very haunting theme that goes great with the whole scene

[Ryushinku]

AOTC has Across the Stars, The Arena and Zam/Chase Through Coruscant. No way they deserve to be written off.

I like the prequels more than most in this thread it seems (grew up with the OT, by the way), but the soundtracks are definitely my favourite part of them.

Conversely, it's been The Force Awakens that had the most disappointing soundtrack to me in the main episodes so far. Rey's theme is pretty good, I like Jedi Steps, the rest was recycled and/or forgettable.
Thankfully Wiliams was back on form for Last Jedi.

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2019 17:56:05 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I thought AOTC had the worst John Williams score of the entire saga, so I'd definitely say it fit there. Granted it still isn't BAD, just not as good as the original trilogy, either sequel, or the other prequels' music.

AOTC did 2 things unwell:

1) The love theme for Padme/Anakin was absolutely the weakest of all the "title" themes of the prequels. Not great, not bad, and IIRC it tried to shoehorn classic music (The Imperial March, right? lol almost called it the Imperial Match which seems on-topic lol) in rather hamfistedly.

2) he reused the same droid theme from TPM when they first showed the clone army on Kamino, which to this day still annoys me to no end.

So yeah, you're not wrong. Those 2 things make me literally forget any other music in the movie (which stinks because it was probably all quite decent) - but at the same time no other music is memorable which is.....not a good thing for a Star Wars movie.

[Cyno]

Yeah, I never really cared for "Across the Stars" (aka, Anakin and Padme's love theme), and considering how that was a core piece of the AOTC score it dragged the rest of it down with it.

Besides the obvious choices like Duel of the Fates, Padme's Ruminations, Battle of the Heroes, and The Great Jedi Purge, I really liked the ending montage that used the Imperial March, Leia's Theme, and Binary Sunset.

[A Platypus Rave]

Oh the happy parade scene in Menace just being a peppier version of the Emperor's theme is fantastic.

[Hit Girl]

Across the Stars would have been a great romance theme if Lucas bothered to write a credible romance.

[Dr. T is an alien]

Sept 2, 2019 18:00:09 GMT -5 Cyno said:

I still think it's weird seeing people who grew up with the prequels as their Star Wars movies be really defensive of them, not like the original trilogy at all, and hate on the sequels as much as OT diehards hated on the prequels.

Everything is cyclical. Wouldn't surprise me if in 15-20 years or so we get Sequel Trilogy diehards who think them superior to anything else Star Wars past or future.

I grew up with the OG trilogy but was lukewarm at worst about the prequels.

TPM
The good:

- I liked the politics, believe it or not, though they are not always well explained
- Darth Maul only scratched the surface of his potential (thank goodness Feloni rescued him in the animated series and had him live until about 3-4 years before ANH)
- The pod racing scene was good, though it could have been better
- Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan (I liked Qui-Gon just fine too)
- Ian McDiarmid. Just, Ian McDiarmid.
- I liked the casting of Portman, though not the way she was directed

The bad:

- The Core scene (there's always a bigger fish) was unnecessary and just not good
- Anakin should have been a teenager (preferably one that is starting to develop some Force powers on his own), not a little kid. Seriously, that really threw me off.

The ugly:

- Jar-Jar being used to entertain the kiddies. Even the Ewoks weren't this overly cutesy or cartoonish (outside of the Forces of Destiny shorts). It's fine to have a comic relief character, but they cannot yank you out of your moments.


AOTC

The good:

- Great cast
- Again, the politics are a nice touch, though they are not adequately explored.
- McGregor again
- Ian McDiarmid. Just, Ian McDiarmid.
- They tried to establish a shared history and closeness between Obi-Wan and Anakin, which was a must for the story to have any real impact. They just came up short.
- The 1st Battle of Geonosis was kind of neat (as were the Geonosians).
- "You don't want to sell me Death Sticks. You want to go home and think about your life."

The bad:

- They cut some much needed character development scenes between Anakin and Padme. Those scenes were cut because they slowed the film down, but it meant the romance felt forced and unnatural. That's worse than slowing the film down.
- The plot was way too haphazard for my tastes.
- They did not adequately explore the relationship between Dooku and Obi-Wan. Canon materials later establish that Dooku felt a connection to Kenobi because of their common friend, Qui-Gon (Qui-Gon's death disillusioned Dooku enough that he was susceptible to being recruited by Sidious and wanted Kenobi to also join them).

The ugly:

- The direction. Oh God, was the direction bad in this one.


ROTS

The good:

- Much better pacing and plot
- They established Anakin as being war-weary by this point
- Established the setting well enough to be used to establish The Clone Wars cartoon
- Grievous was interesting
- Obi-Wan, yet again
- Ian McDiarmid. Just, Ian McDiarmid. Even when overacting this time around I cannot hate his performance.
- That opera scene
- Any scene where Anakin told the story with his face rather than his words. Christensen really is a much better actor than the direction of this trilogy let him be and these scenes alone demonstrate that.

The bad:

- Much less than previous films. I guess Grievous could have been more fleshed out. Not everyone saw the Clone Wars cartoon (the Samarai Jack-style series, not the CG series), where he was portrayed as death incarnate even to Jedi.

The ugly:

- Not so much ugly as irritating, but it appears that Lucas had the basics for the story of Ahsoka in his mind the whole time and they did not bother to even mention her in passing. A simple line during the opera scene by Palpatine lamenting what happened to Anakin's apprentice without actually discussing her fate would have been more than sufficient.