Let's talk about the Pokemon villain teams.

[Deleted]

I dunno, feel like discussing them for some reason.

Really never been a gigantic fan of the whole thing, and really would like to see a Pokemon game that completely broke away from the format, but there are still definitely teams better than others.

My personal favorite is probably Team Skull or Team Plasma (both incarnations, though moreso BW1), pretty much for opposite reasons; Plasma is really the one time I've actually been able to take these guys seriously while Team Skull just treats the whole thing as a joke which makes it really endearing, though I'm not a fan of how the bit seems to be getting completely recycled for Team Yell.

Worst is without a doubt Team Flare. While Lysandre's plan is less dumb than Archie's or Maxie's, he feels a lot more half-baked than they do, and Team Flare themselves are just kind of a poorly explained non-threat, and a very underutilized one (remember how they still did the admins thing despite never actually using them for anything?). They do have some pretty sweet battle music though.

Think the team I'm the most torn on is Galactic. Mostly in that they in a lot of respects have the Team Flare issue, but at least their admins actually do stuff, and Cyrus himself I think is probably one of the best villains in the series since he has an actual plan and has a clear rationale behind it. Plus he's probably the biggest human threat this franchise has had in terms of the scope of his plan, if only because Ghetsis's plan was basically never going to actually work because it was dependent on everyone seeing him betray N and then immediately giving up rather than, say, trying a group resistance.

Ghetsis is still probably my favorite team leader though, it's either him or YOUR BOY. Lusamine might be up there if not for her half-assed not-face turn in SM and half-assed not-actually-a-villain in USUM, though.

[Mozenrath]

I think Team Yell is different enough to be fine. Overzealous fanboys who are causing problems due to their fanaticism versus no goodnicks who are mostly harmless, turning to Guzma for some sort of guidance that they I guess lack in their personal lives.

Team Flare were such a letdown. First seeing them, I liked their style, but that was really all they had going for them. Their leader being treated like a revelation just made everyone in the setting look like they probably get trapped inside their houses when they periodically forget how to operate a doorknob, they are so stupid. It'd be like if Eric Bischoff just walked around in an nWo shirt while commentary questioned who the backer of the nWo was, and if Bischoff knew anything about the nWo. No one can figure out the guy in all red has something to do with their plan?

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Team Flare was so damn disappointing! I freaking love their designs, but just so....bleh writing wise! All style no substance.

Gotta agree that Team Skull and Team Plasma are my favorite evil teams.

The Black & White games have my favorite writing in the franchise without contest and it reflects with its villains.

And Team Skull are just too goofy not to love.

[schizo]

Sence my only exposure to Pokemon is the old tv shows. It's all about Team Rocket for me!. Love the heck out of those goofballs lol! I hope one day they catch that little turp's pikachu

[Mozenrath]

Sept 3, 2019 2:32:56 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Team Flare was so damn disappointing! I freaking love their designs, but just so....bleh writing wise! All style no substance.

Gotta agree that Team Skull and Team Plasma are my favorite evil teams.

The Black & White games have my favorite writing in the franchise without contest and it reflects with its villains.

And Team Skull are just too goofy not to love.

Plus, you get the kickass music and Guzma having a lot more going on than a lot of these types of characters do, so that is nice. Something really fascinating to me about the golf prodigy turned criminal boss versus "I want to make a new continent because I guess I'm kinda stupid" or "I'm the mafia."

[Cvslfc123]

When I first saw Team Skull on the Sun and Moon demo I thought they were way too goofy to be a serious danger like previous teams. I felt there would be another sinister organisation in the games which turned out to be the Aether Foundation. I'm guessing it will be similar in Sword and Shield as Team Yell seem to have that same level of goofiness.

[Heartbreaker]

Team Plasma is the best evil team in the entire series. Their PETA-like motives are a cover up for Ghetsis's true intentions. He doesn't give a crap about helping Pokemon and used his son N for his personal gain. In Black and White 2, the crazy bastard actually tries to murder you!

I also have to talk about Team Skull. I loved them being more like a street gang than an organisation. They aren't exactly bad dudes, besides causing a bit of trouble. They are kids and young adults who couldn't complete the island challenge and felt like outcasts. That's something I really liked the games to explore.

[Ash Kingston]

To an extent, I appreciate what it feels like Team Flare was supposed to be.

I mean, take the Grunts; they're a bunch of rich, obnoxious shitbirds who viewed everyone not in their team as a drain on society, and who (IIRC) paid millions of Pokedollars to even join in the first place. (This would obviously also extend to the Admins, but not necessarily the scientists.) Lysandre selling them a dream where only Team Flare survives into his ideal world (by wiping out most of the human and Pokemon populations with AZ's weapon) makes sense; it's what they feel they deserve.

Because they're spoiled brats.

More to the point, consider the... partial emphasis that Kalos had on fashion and fame, especially in Lumiose City. Where you could dress Calem/Serena up however you wanted. Where how you dressed, where you shopped, and what you did affected where you could go.

Team Flare is highly fashionable. Their members are rich. They drink at only the most popular cafes (the one that Lysandre's lab is hidden under). They have the sharpest suits. They think they're the most stylish people in Kalos, and that means only they deserve to live in Kalos.

They've got flair.

But that's all they've got. When you get past how they dress, they're awful.

They're stupid and goofy and they suck, and I love them.

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

I think another reason why Plasma and Skull work so well is because they are rather realistic.

Plasma, at least on the surface/with the Grunts, are like PETA or any of the wide variety of eco-terrorist groups we have in real life(Sea Shepherd, Greenpeace, Animal Liberation Front, etc.).

Skull is just a street gang of lost and directionless youths.

That is stuff we see and experience somewhat regularly in our lives, or at least our media.

Massive criminal organizations trying to take over the world with esoteric mass destruction devices, not so much.

[Ash Kingston]

Each of the teams are... something.

Team Rocket: An organized crime syndicate, out to profit by exploiting Pokemon.
Team Rocket Redux: The same as above, but really wanting their leader back.

Team Magma/Aqua: Crazy eco-terrorists whose ideals clash, and who clearly haven't thought this shit through.

Team Galactic: Cultists suckered in by a charismatic leader that couldn't give less of a shit about any of them.

Team Plasma: PETA, if led by an extremely charismatic leader... that is, himself, a puppet for the utter asshole behind the scenes.
Team Plasma Redux: Air Pirates who might still also be PETA, but now openly led by the asshole.

Team Flare: The 1%.

Team Skull: A street gang acting out against the system.

Team Rainbow Rocket: Competent villain leaders who didn't run afoul of a ten year old, coming together to fulfill their goals in a new reality, and promptly running afoul of a ten year old.

[Dub H]

The concept is a little played out but Team Skull and Team Yell at least are a fresh change from the former norm.


Flare really was the overkill of the big evil big plans evil team.By far the worst team.

I love Team Plasma but I love mostly because of N, I especially like that they approached the theme in the world itself. Both Plasma and Flare's design makes then look like dorks Galactic is just as bad as flare honestly,forgetable as hell.

And let sbe honest Guzma is the coolest leader and he actually has a character and character arc.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2019 4:09:38 GMT -5 Ash Kingston said:

To an extent, I appreciate what it feels like Team Flare was supposed to be.

I mean, take the Grunts; they're a bunch of rich, obnoxious shitbirds who viewed everyone not in their team as a drain on society, and who (IIRC) paid millions of Pokedollars to even join in the first place. (This would obviously also extend to the Admins, but not necessarily the scientists.) Lysandre selling them a dream where only Team Flare survives into his ideal world (by wiping out most of the human and Pokemon populations with AZ's weapon) makes sense; it's what they feel they deserve.

Because they're spoiled brats.

More to the point, consider the... partial emphasis that Kalos had on fashion and fame, especially in Lumiose City. Where you could dress Calem/Serena up however you wanted. Where how you dressed, where you shopped, and what you did affected where you could go.

Team Flare is highly fashionable. Their members are rich. They drink at only the most popular cafes (the one that Lysandre's lab is hidden under). They have the sharpest suits. They think they're the most stylish people in Kalos, and that means only they deserve to live in Kalos.

They've got flair.

But that's all they've got. When you get past how they dress, they're awful.

They're stupid and goofy and they suck, and I love them.

Then you got the generic female admins and their weird ass visors and their lack of personality and Dr. Colossus... erm, Xerosic, who was an afterthought in the main story but was heavy in the postgame.

My issues with Flare were how, once you stripped away that "the grunts dressed goofy and their leader wants to kill everyone because humans suck", it's a weak group from a forgettable region.

[Dub H]

Sept 3, 2019 8:13:24 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Sept 3, 2019 4:09:38 GMT -5 Ash Kingston said:

To an extent, I appreciate what it feels like Team Flare was supposed to be.

I mean, take the Grunts; they're a bunch of rich, obnoxious shitbirds who viewed everyone not in their team as a drain on society, and who (IIRC) paid millions of Pokedollars to even join in the first place. (This would obviously also extend to the Admins, but not necessarily the scientists.) Lysandre selling them a dream where only Team Flare survives into his ideal world (by wiping out most of the human and Pokemon populations with AZ's weapon) makes sense; it's what they feel they deserve.

Because they're spoiled brats.

More to the point, consider the... partial emphasis that Kalos had on fashion and fame, especially in Lumiose City. Where you could dress Calem/Serena up however you wanted. Where how you dressed, where you shopped, and what you did affected where you could go.

Team Flare is highly fashionable. Their members are rich. They drink at only the most popular cafes (the one that Lysandre's lab is hidden under). They have the sharpest suits. They think they're the most stylish people in Kalos, and that means only they deserve to live in Kalos.

They've got flair.

But that's all they've got. When you get past how they dress, they're awful.

They're stupid and goofy and they suck, and I love them.

Then you got the generic female admins and their weird ass visors and their lack of personality and Dr. Colossus... erm, Xerosic, who was an afterthought in the main story but was heavy in the postgame.

My issues with Flare were how, once you stripped away that "the grunts dressed goofy and their leader wants to kill everyone because humans suck", it's a weak group from a forgettable region.

I feel like they could have leaned more on Team Flair being corrupt and controlling the region behind the scenes.

Since you had the Elite 4 Flare member that was also news reporter. Would have been more interesting

[Deleted]

That is one point I will give Team Flare at least - I actually really like Malva and wish they'd have done more with her.

[Ash Kingston]

Sept 3, 2019 8:13:24 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Sept 3, 2019 4:09:38 GMT -5 Ash Kingston said:

To an extent, I appreciate what it feels like Team Flare was supposed to be.

I mean, take the Grunts; they're a bunch of rich, obnoxious shitbirds who viewed everyone not in their team as a drain on society, and who (IIRC) paid millions of Pokedollars to even join in the first place. (This would obviously also extend to the Admins, but not necessarily the scientists.) Lysandre selling them a dream where only Team Flare survives into his ideal world (by wiping out most of the human and Pokemon populations with AZ's weapon) makes sense; it's what they feel they deserve.

Because they're spoiled brats.

More to the point, consider the... partial emphasis that Kalos had on fashion and fame, especially in Lumiose City. Where you could dress Calem/Serena up however you wanted. Where how you dressed, where you shopped, and what you did affected where you could go.

Team Flare is highly fashionable. Their members are rich. They drink at only the most popular cafes (the one that Lysandre's lab is hidden under). They have the sharpest suits. They think they're the most stylish people in Kalos, and that means only they deserve to live in Kalos.

They've got flair.

But that's all they've got. When you get past how they dress, they're awful.

They're stupid and goofy and they suck, and I love them.

Then you got the generic female admins and their weird ass visors and their lack of personality and Dr. Colossus... erm, Xerosic, who was an afterthought in the main story but was heavy in the postgame.

My issues with Flare were how, once you stripped away that "the grunts dressed goofy and their leader wants to kill everyone because humans suck", it's a weak group from a forgettable region.

Oh, no, I agree that Team Flare is probably the worst villain group in this franchise! They're awful, but... I still love the idea that it might have been intentional, and was meant to play off of their name. I doubt it actually was, but lemme dream.

However... honestly, to me, Kalos isn't a bad region. I liked that the rivals represent a different type of player, I liked the callbacks to Gen 1 (Santalune Forest being Viridian Forest, getting one of the starters, having to wake up Snorlax), I loved most of the music (each major town has its own, unique theme - Snowbelle City has one of the best ones, and I will fight anyone who disagrees - and the Gym Leader and Elite 4 battle musics are great)... but I think that Team Flare being disappointing, and the game being easy (seriously, they could have at least had the Elite Four get better teams on subsequent rematches, like they've done since Gen 3) ruined it for a lot of players. Which is totally understandable.

Now, the best team?

Galactic. Which pains me to type because I hate the Grunts so much.