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Post by flakeymcgill on Sept 22, 2019 14:50:16 GMT -5
If you view Luger as Hogan's replacement (Hogan 2.0) then everything that happened makes sense. If you try and fit Bret Hart into that spot then there are a number of anomalies, unanswered questions and frankly stuff that really doesn't make sense. Trying to retrospectively engineer Bret into that spot is at best, very awkward and the only supporting evidence for that is one photo whose purpose has never been proven and a professional wrestler believing the original plan was for him to get the push - "quelle surprise" said nobody who's ever heard a wrestler from that era open his mouth in a shoot video where they all claim that their big push would have happened if not for X, Y or Z (spoiler: X is usually Hogan)
I'm not saying it isn't true, it's just a really, really awkward fit and you kind of have to believe that Vince booked the Intrepid and didn't intend it to be the launch pad for what was to happen at Summerslam or that he booked it for 4th July and had no intention of it being used as a 'USA! USA!' bit of jingoism that would be the launchpad for the title match at Summerslam. You'd also have to believe that he would have demoted his monster heel with whom he'd already headlined a WM and put the WWE title on (albeit briefly) back down into the midcard and out of the title picture. You;d also have to believe that the guy he removed from the title picture not 3 months earlier was the guy he wanted back into the title picture and as champion. You'd also have to believe that if Vince wanted to go with Bret at Summerslam but couldn't because of Hogan then with Hogan gone the reason Vince didn't run with Bret as champion a Summerslam was.....a man no longer with the company?
As I say it's possible, I don't deny that. But it does seem quite clumsy and perfect internet/smark conspiracy fodder as it ticks all the boxes of 1) Hogan looks bad and....well, let's face it it's the only box that needs ticking for these things to be believed.
ALL of that, much of which seems a stretch is eminently less believable than: 93 panned out as intended through until Summerslam but with Luger taking Hogan's place with Bret returning to the title scene as a fall-back once Vince had lost confidence in Luger. That's all you need if you take that view. If you don't there's a series of "Well actually..." rabbit holes you need to go down and even then the conclusions drawn seem unconvincing.
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Post by jason1980s on Sept 22, 2019 15:44:47 GMT -5
On the other hand the WrestleMania celebration with Bret Hart was just so perfect. It was the beginning of a new era (even though New Generation wasn't that good looking back) and it also signaled the end of the last decade of WWF, even counting the short period where Luger was in the main event. I also like the ending of the Stampede In Your House. With Bret being so into his character, the storylines and wrestling in general I think anything he was involved with would be better than Luger no matter how the company booked it. I feel bad for Luger though, I think he was the best choice at the time but they just didn't book it correctly. And if he had won the title, where would he go? Continue the feud with Yokozuna into Survivor Series or start a feud with Borga who was too new and inexperienced to be in the main event scene I think. And if Yokozuna loses the title, I think his character loses steam like he did after WM X, Survivor Series 1994 and during late 1995.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 16:42:08 GMT -5
It wouldn't have been nearly as bad, but the contractual clause of "Luger only gets one and only title shot" made the celebration look way worse. Lex celebrated like the undisputed world champion of goobers. Didn't help Vince tried to spin it by going, "Oh, watch out, Yokozuna! Wait until next time!" Knowledgeable fans who knew about the stipulation were aware there wasn't going to be a next time, and people who weren't aware had already deemed Luger as a choke artist. Hell, by the time WrestleMania came around, Luger didn't get even get the program against Mr. Perfect (as Perfect was clearly a biased referee) due to Hennig's health at the time, and fell into that forgetful program with Tatanka where everyone assumed Luger was going to join the Million Dollar Job Squad.
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Spider2024
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Post by Spider2024 on Sept 22, 2019 16:55:36 GMT -5
It wouldn't have been nearly as bad, but the contractual clause of "Luger only gets one and only title shot" made the celebration look way worse. Lex celebrated like the undisputed world champion of goobers. Didn't help Vince tried to spin it by going, "Oh, watch out, Yokozuna! Wait until next time!" Knowledgeable fans who knew about the stipulation were aware there wasn't going to be a next time, and people who weren't aware had already deemed Luger as a choke artist. Hell, by the time WrestleMania came around, Luger didn't get even get the program against Mr. Perfect (as Perfect was clearly a biased referee) due to Hennig's health at the time, and fell into that forgetful program with Tatanka where everyone assumed Luger was going to join the Million Dollar Job Squad. Technically, there was still the "win the Royal Rumble" option in Luger's back pocket, so technically there was still the chance of a next time. Which still makes the clause very useless, since they could've played the story the same way without it. There weren't that many PPVs at the time, or even SNMEs that year, so there wasn't any "reason" the world champion "had to" defend the title against any major contenders, because there were no big stages from Summerslam until next year's Royal Rumble. (There was Survivor Series, but that's always been a PPV where 50% of the time, world champions don't defend, instead they're placed into a team elimination match.) Cornette could've easily still said "we're not giving you another title shot Lex, you failed the first time anyway" and he still would've had the Rumble to earn his shot again. So yeah, it was all that stupid clause. Without it, he still could've had a victory to be proud of at Summerslam, even if just a countout win.
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Post by jking1979 on Sept 22, 2019 20:37:57 GMT -5
Vince McMahon wanted to turn Sid into the top face of the company. Sid refused and said the money is him being a vicious heel. That's too bad because the fans were cheering for him against Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels.
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Post by mauled on Sept 22, 2019 21:01:07 GMT -5
If you view Luger as Hogan's replacement (Hogan 2.0) then everything that happened makes sense. If you try and fit Bret Hart into that spot then there are a number of anomalies, unanswered questions and frankly stuff that really doesn't make sense. Trying to retrospectively engineer Bret into that spot is at best, very awkward and the only supporting evidence for that is one photo whose purpose has never been proven and a professional wrestler believing the original plan was for him to get the push - "quelle surprise" said nobody who's ever heard a wrestler from that era open his mouth in a shoot video where they all claim that their big push would have happened if not for X, Y or Z (spoiler: X is usually Hogan) I'm not saying it isn't true, it's just a really, really awkward fit and you kind of have to believe that Vince booked the Intrepid and didn't intend it to be the launch pad for what was to happen at Summerslam or that he booked it for 4th July and had no intention of it being used as a 'USA! USA!' bit of jingoism that would be the launchpad for the title match at Summerslam. You'd also have to believe that he would have demoted his monster heel with whom he'd already headlined a WM and put the WWE title on (albeit briefly) back down into the midcard and out of the title picture. You;d also have to believe that the guy he removed from the title picture not 3 months earlier was the guy he wanted back into the title picture and as champion. You'd also have to believe that if Vince wanted to go with Bret at Summerslam but couldn't because of Hogan then with Hogan gone the reason Vince didn't run with Bret as champion a Summerslam was.....a man no longer with the company? As I say it's possible, I don't deny that. But it does seem quite clumsy and perfect internet/smark conspiracy fodder as it ticks all the boxes of 1) Hogan looks bad and....well, let's face it it's the only box that needs ticking for these things to be believed. ALL of that, much of which seems a stretch is eminently less believable than: 93 panned out as intended through until Summerslam but with Luger taking Hogan's place with Bret returning to the title scene as a fall-back once Vince had lost confidence in Luger. That's all you need if you take that view. If you don't there's a series of "Well actually..." rabbit holes you need to go down and even then the conclusions drawn seem unconvincing. Like I said the photo shoot has been confirmed by 2 different sources. Prichard and Meltzer. The WWF Magazine at the time was doing spreads comparing Hogan and Hart. Maybe Vince did get cold feet on Bret. Hell even in 94 when Bret was Champion he didn't have him Main Event. King of the Ring it was Piper/Lawler Summerslam it was Taker/Faker and Survivor Series it Was Taker/Yoko, so yeah you could be right When Hogan said no, Vince changed or changing his mind, is perfectly possible though. Lex wasn't the first time he wanted Hogan 2.0 either. He tried it with Warrior, hell he even tried it with Tom McGee back when Hogan was at his height. Btw How Hogan behaved in WCW cancelling a feud when Bret was a big star who'd just come off the most famous Wrestling night off all time. That you can't deny was a dick move on his part 🤷♂️ This will sound weird but it probably worked out better for Bret in the long term. The audience really got on his side and connected with him as the hard working under dog and got sympathy for him ie he should be in the Main Event. So when the Rumble came about fans cheered him and booed Lex in the face off
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Sept 23, 2019 8:08:53 GMT -5
Didn't help Vince tried to spin it by going, "Oh, watch out, Yokozuna! Wait until next time!" Knowledgeable fans who knew about the stipulation were aware there wasn't going to be a next time, and people who weren't aware had already deemed Luger as a choke artist. Hell, by the time WrestleMania came around, Luger didn't get even get the program against Mr. Perfect (as Perfect was clearly a biased referee) due to Hennig's health at the time, and fell into that forgetful program with Tatanka where everyone assumed Luger was going to join the Million Dollar Job Squad. Technically, there was still the "win the Royal Rumble" option in Luger's back pocket, so technically there was still the chance of a next time. Which still makes the clause very useless, since they could've played the story the same way without it. There weren't that many PPVs at the time, or even SNMEs that year, so there wasn't any "reason" the world champion "had to" defend the title against any major contenders, because there were no big stages from Summerslam until next year's Royal Rumble. (There was Survivor Series, but that's always been a PPV where 50% of the time, world champions don't defend, instead they're placed into a team elimination match.) Cornette could've easily still said "we're not giving you another title shot Lex, you failed the first time anyway" and he still would've had the Rumble to earn his shot again. So yeah, it was all that stupid clause. Without it, he still could've had a victory to be proud of at Summerslam, even if just a countout win. Since that had only ever occurred once before, there was no guarantee the stipulation for the title match would happen again.
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Post by chronocross on Sept 23, 2019 9:19:52 GMT -5
I remember thinking Luger would win as they were laying it on thick with the "Americana" stuff, basically saying Luger had this in the bag. Luger wins by countout and confetti and balloons are falling from the ceiling like he won the WWF title, it was so stupid.
Though I thought he would win at Mania because they were trying so hard to put obstacles in his way like Borga and Fuji hiring two guys to try and take him out (Tenryu and Kabuki), until he gets screwed again by Hennig and he can't get revenge on him because he's gone post-Mania 10.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Sept 23, 2019 10:06:17 GMT -5
I think WWE missed the boat by a mile. A long Luger/Hart program over the title likely would have been incredible.
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