The SummerSlam 1993 ending.

[J is Justice]

So I just watched SummerSlam 1993 for the first time in years on the WWE Network. It was a pretty solid show which is what I recalled it being.

But the ending is even worse than I remember! Like, the picture I had in my mind was that Luger was pretty disappointed in winning by count-out, and that the wrestlers all came out and celebrated with him, for some reason. But actually Lex was delighted that he didn't win the title and that he won by a shitty count-out! And then when the rest of the locker room came out, I had to turn it off from cringing. So weird and dumb.

[Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster]

Yep the ending was stupid as it made Luger look both like a massive idiot and a choke artist.

[Mozenrath]

I get that Vince wanted to draw it out, but this wasn't a good way to tell that story. I also just don't think Luger's a guy you do a slow burn on, anyway, not for this kind of thing.

[jking1979]

It was suppose to be Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart for Summerslam. Lex Luger's best work was in WCW and NWA.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Yup. He’s a doofus. Wonder why he never got over?

[Blindkarevik]

Granted, it was technically Yoko's first singles loss as he had only been beaten before in the impromptu match with Hogan at Wrestlemania, but he had taken salt to the eyes from Mr. Fuji as well. So for an actual scheduled match, it was Yoko's first loss, if I recall correctly.

But yeah, going that far then stopping short just makes the entire celebration look dumb. "Yay! He's unbeatable, but you kinda won sorta!"

[SmashTV]

It did Luger no favours in the long run, and also shortchanged the fans who’d invested in the Lex Express that summer. As a Brit I didn’t care either way for the ‘American Made’ gimmick, but to have Luger win via countout and THEN have a mass celebration like he’d singlehandedly won the Super Bowl was ridiculous.

[Spider2024]

It wouldn't have been nearly as bad, but the contractual clause of "Luger only gets one and only title shot" made the celebration look way worse. Lex celebrated like the undisputed world champion of goobers.

[Aceorton]

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they were talking through the ending.

"So, wait, Vince, you want the faces to come out and celebrate?"

"Yes."

"For a countout?"

"Yep."

"But he doesn't get the belt?"

"THEY WON'T CARE! WE'LL HAVE BALLOONS!"

[mauled]

Yep Luger looked like a complete idiot celebrating when he didn't get the belt.
As a kid though I was kind of glad as I couldn't stand Luger and hated that he'd been pushed above Bret who I thought should've had the shot

[jking1979]

Lex Luger was a great superstar. He just didn't make a great world champion. They had to put him with Harley Race in WCW.

[flakeymcgill]

Sept 21, 2019 17:46:40 GMT -5 jking1979 said:

It was suppose to be Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart for Summerslam. Lex Luger's best work was in WCW and NWA.

My issue with that hypothesis is that knowing Vince and knowing his love for monster heels and patriotism and jingoism and all the rest of it, including his dislike of face vs face main events after what happened at WM6 - I do not see any chance in hell that his newly-anointed monster heel wouldn't be in the main event title picture at the second biggest PPV of the year.

Some go on about the tug-of-war picture between Bret and Hogan but who knows if that was intended as a promotion for a televised match, a house show feud or simply an article for the WWF magazine that would often tease and speculate about matches and feuds that never ended up happening.

You also then factor in the fact that Vince, even then, had a massive bias towards Hogan and at best was only ever reluctant to put it on Bret whenever he felt he had no other viable option. 

I really don't see what Vince McMahon putting his monster anti-American heel on the back burner, asking Hogan to job and putting the belt on Bret. IMO the logical, and most simple, explanation is that Luger was parachuted into the Hogan role at Summerslam and Bret only returned to the main event scene once Vince lost faith in Luger to be his Hulk Hogan. Any scenario that placed Bret in that main event at Summerslam to me has never made any sense.

Vince wanted, and loved, the whole 'USA vs Japan' thing. American Hero vs Foreign Monster Heel. Plan A was Hogan, plan B was Luger. Always seemed a stretch to me to awkwardly try and retrospectively engineer Bret into that scenario.  All we have is the aforementioned picture and probably what Vince told Bret to soften the blow of the news he was going in a different direction. If Vince wanted Bret to be the WWF Champion at Summerslam the fact Hulk Hogan, who gave notice two or three months earlier, refused to job to him at the event then Vince still would have gone with Bret vs Yoko - wouldn't he?

[mauled]

Sept 22, 2019 4:49:27 GMT -5 flakeymcgill said:

Sept 21, 2019 17:46:40 GMT -5 jking1979 said:

It was suppose to be Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart for Summerslam. Lex Luger's best work was in WCW and NWA.

My issue with that hypothesis is that knowing Vince and knowing his love for monster heels and patriotism and jingoism and all the rest of it, including his dislike of face vs face main events after what happened at WM6 - I do not see any chance in hell that his newly-anointed monster heel wouldn't be in the main event title picture at the second biggest PPV of the year.

Some go on about the tug-of-war picture between Bret and Hogan but who knows if that was intended as a promotion for a televised match, a house show feud or simply an article for the WWF magazine that would often tease and speculate about matches and feuds that never ended up happening.

You also then factor in the fact that Vince, even then, had a massive bias towards Hogan and at best was only ever reluctant to put it on Bret whenever he felt he had no other viable option. 

I really don't see what Vince McMahon putting his monster anti-American heel on the back burner, asking Hogan to job and putting the belt on Bret. IMO the logical, and most simple, explanation is that Luger was parachuted into the Hogan role at Summerslam and Bret only returned to the main event scene once Vince lost faith in Luger to be his Hulk Hogan. Any scenario that placed Bret in that main event at Summerslam to me has never made any sense.

Vince wanted, and loved, the whole 'USA vs Japan' thing. American Hero vs Foreign Monster Heel. Plan A was Hogan, plan B was Luger. Always seemed a stretch to me to awkwardly try and retrospectively engineer Bret into that scenario.  All we have is the aforementioned picture and probably what Vince told Bret to soften the blow of the news he was going in a different direction. If Vince wanted Bret to be the WWF Champion at Summerslam the fact Hulk Hogan, who gave notice two or three months earlier, refused to job to him at the event then Vince still would have gone with Bret vs Yoko - wouldn't he?

A) Prichard has confirmed the Tug of War pic and possible story, so has Meltzer.
B) Hulk beats Yoko at King of the Ring, while Bret wins the Tournament setting up a feud. They go to Summerslam and Hogan puts over Bret before boating off into the sunset to do Thunder in paradise.
C) They'd done Face v Face after Wrestlemania 6. Bret v Piper at 8 then a Double main Event at Summerslam 92 with Bret/Bulldog and Macho/Warrior so to say he didn't like them and wouldn't do them doesn't ring true. Basically Hogan was a punk and refused to put Bret over.
D) Hogan to Bret again a few years later in WCW

[BorneAgain]

Honestly the biggest issue was timing. If the Lex Express push had started after Summerslam (with Yoko facing some other major babyface at that show) then the booking is obvious: Begin the program in the fall, Luger pins Yoko in the Survivor Series team match, have Lex win the Rumble, and unseat the champion at Wrestlemania X. Six months of build without Lex choking and losing all his momentum.

[flakeymcgill]

Sept 22, 2019 6:56:51 GMT -5 mauled said:

Sept 22, 2019 4:49:27 GMT -5 flakeymcgill said:

My issue with that hypothesis is that knowing Vince and knowing his love for monster heels and patriotism and jingoism and all the rest of it, including his dislike of face vs face main events after what happened at WM6 - I do not see any chance in hell that his newly-anointed monster heel wouldn't be in the main event title picture at the second biggest PPV of the year.

Some go on about the tug-of-war picture between Bret and Hogan but who knows if that was intended as a promotion for a televised match, a house show feud or simply an article for the WWF magazine that would often tease and speculate about matches and feuds that never ended up happening.

You also then factor in the fact that Vince, even then, had a massive bias towards Hogan and at best was only ever reluctant to put it on Bret whenever he felt he had no other viable option. 

I really don't see what Vince McMahon putting his monster anti-American heel on the back burner, asking Hogan to job and putting the belt on Bret. IMO the logical, and most simple, explanation is that Luger was parachuted into the Hogan role at Summerslam and Bret only returned to the main event scene once Vince lost faith in Luger to be his Hulk Hogan. Any scenario that placed Bret in that main event at Summerslam to me has never made any sense.

Vince wanted, and loved, the whole 'USA vs Japan' thing. American Hero vs Foreign Monster Heel. Plan A was Hogan, plan B was Luger. Always seemed a stretch to me to awkwardly try and retrospectively engineer Bret into that scenario.  All we have is the aforementioned picture and probably what Vince told Bret to soften the blow of the news he was going in a different direction. If Vince wanted Bret to be the WWF Champion at Summerslam the fact Hulk Hogan, who gave notice two or three months earlier, refused to job to him at the event then Vince still would have gone with Bret vs Yoko - wouldn't he?

A) Prichard has confirmed the Tug of War pic and possible story, so has Meltzer.
B) Hulk beats Yoko at King of the Ring, while Bret wins the Tournament setting up a feud. They go to Summerslam and Hogan puts over Bret before boating off into the sunset to do Thunder in paradise.
C) They'd done Face v Face after Wrestlemania 6. Bret v Piper at 8 then a Double main Event at Summerslam 92 with Bret/Bulldog and Macho/Warrior so to say he didn't like them and wouldn't do them doesn't ring true. Basically Hogan was a punk and refused to put Bret over.
D) Hogan to Bret again a few years later in WCW

I didn't doubt the tug of war pic. I just doubt it instantly meant that they were going with Hogan vs Bret at a PPV. It could have been for a house show poster, it could have been for the international tour that summer, it could have been for the WWF magazine which would tease feuds all the time that never actually manifested themselves. They did Face vs Face at Summerslam 92 because of the location. Piper vs Bret was no where near the main event. You're keen to quote Bruce who's also said many, many, many times that Vince didn't think WM6 was a success BECAUSE it was Face vs Face

The logical acrobatics you have to perform to get to the stage where you argue that Vince McMahon...I'll say it again, VINCE MCMAHON, would turn down the opportunity of having a jingoistic/patriotic theme to Summerslam 93 and demote his red hot monster heel to the mid card all to have Hogan job to Bret as opposed to simply seeing it for what it was which is Luger being the 'alternative Hogan' in a Yoko vs Hogan main event at Summerslam is quite impressive.

It also overlooks the fact that by June Hogan was on his way out and they knew he wouldn't be around for Summerslam. If Vince wanted the belt on Bret why not go Bret vs Yoko? Luger's involvement in that match ONLY makes sense if you accept him for what he was, an alternative Hogan.

If Vince wanted to go with Bret then he could have easily once Hogan gave notice. It makes no sense that Vince was so keen for Bret vs Hogan to give Bret the rub as the star to build on going forward, but without Hogan he shoved Bret in the midcard and went with someone else.

People believe the 'Bret was supposed to go over Hogan' story because they want it to be true. Nothing over than one picture whose intentions nobody knows and Bret leaking to the wrestling press the idea that Vince really, really wanted him to be champ but...."reasons".....suggests that Luger was anything else than a direct Hogan replacement and Bret's involvement in the title scene at SS is all just fantasy.

Bret: Hey Vince, you said you wanted me to be champ right?
Vince: Sure, pal. But that damn Hogan. He has creative control, you understand that right?
Bret: Yeah, but he's out of the company now right, Vince?
Vince: He sure is - you're the future, Bret. You're....you're the new generation. Yeah, I like that. The new generation!
Bret: And Hogan wouldn't drop to me at Summerslam despite the fact you told him that you wanted me as your champion?
Vince: That's right, damn him. I wanted Summerslam to be the re-launch of Bret Hart as WWF Champion. You like the sound of that, pal?
Bret: Well, Hogan's now gone now so I presume I'm going against Yoko and winning the title at Summerslam
Vince: Er....you see the thing is...
Bret: Because like you said, you wanted Hogan to job for me so logic would dictate that now you want Yoko to do the same?
Vince: Um......hey, look over there it's a clown!
Bret: That's just Doink, Vince stop changing the subject.....so I'm going over Yoko at Summerslam and winning the...
Vince: Ha ha ha ha! Look at that clown! I gotta go pal, I'll catch up with you later

[johnnyk9]

Lugano should’ve won the title but we can never change the past

[mauled]

Sept 22, 2019 8:27:36 GMT -5 flakeymcgill said:

Sept 22, 2019 6:56:51 GMT -5 mauled said:

A) Prichard has confirmed the Tug of War pic and possible story, so has Meltzer.
B) Hulk beats Yoko at King of the Ring, while Bret wins the Tournament setting up a feud. They go to Summerslam and Hogan puts over Bret before boating off into the sunset to do Thunder in paradise.
C) They'd done Face v Face after Wrestlemania 6. Bret v Piper at 8 then a Double main Event at Summerslam 92 with Bret/Bulldog and Macho/Warrior so to say he didn't like them and wouldn't do them doesn't ring true. Basically Hogan was a punk and refused to put Bret over.
D) Hogan to Bret again a few years later in WCW

I didn't doubt the tug of war pic. I just doubt it instantly meant that they were going with Hogan vs Bret at a PPV. It could have been for a house show poster, it could have been for the international tour that summer, it could have been for the WWF magazine which would tease feuds all the time that never actually manifested themselves. They did Face vs Face at Summerslam 92 because of the location. Piper vs Bret was no where near the main event. You're keen to quote Bruce who's also said many, many, many times that Vince didn't think WM6 was a success BECAUSE it was Face vs Face

The logical acrobatics you have to perform to get to the stage where you argue that Vince McMahon...I'll say it again, VINCE MCMAHON, would turn down the opportunity of having a jingoistic/patriotic theme to Summerslam 93 and demote his red hot monster heel to the mid card all to have Hogan job to Bret as opposed to simply seeing it for what it was which is Luger being the 'alternative Hogan' in a Yoko vs Hogan main event at Summerslam is quite impressive.

It also overlooks the fact that by June Hogan was on his way out and they knew he wouldn't be around for Summerslam. If Vince wanted the belt on Bret why not go Bret vs Yoko? Luger's involvement in that match ONLY makes sense if you accept him for what he was, an alternative Hogan.

If Vince wanted to go with Bret then he could have easily once Hogan gave notice. It makes no sense that Vince was so keen for Bret vs Hogan to give Bret the rub as the star to build on going forward, but without Hogan he shoved Bret in the midcard and went with someone else.

People believe the 'Bret was supposed to go over Hogan' story because they want it to be true. Nothing over than one picture whose intentions nobody knows and Bret leaking to the wrestling press the idea that Vince really, really wanted him to be champ but...."reasons".....suggests that Luger was anything else than a direct Hogan replacement and Bret's involvement in the title scene at SS is all just fantasy.

Bret: Hey Vince, you said you wanted me to be champ right?
Vince: Sure, pal. But that damn Hogan. He has creative control, you understand that right?
Bret: Yeah, but he's out of the company now right, Vince?
Vince: He sure is - you're the future, Bret. You're....you're the new generation. Yeah, I like that. The new generation!
Bret: And Hogan wouldn't drop to me at Summerslam despite the fact you told him that you wanted me as your champion?
Vince: That's right, damn him. I wanted Summerslam to be the re-launch of Bret Hart as WWF Champion. You like the sound of that, pal?
Bret: Well, Hogan's now gone now so I presume I'm going against Yoko and winning the title at Summerslam
Vince: Er....you see the thing is...
Bret: Because like you said, you wanted Hogan to job for me so logic would dictate that now you want Yoko to do the same?
Vince: Um......hey, look over there it's a clown!
Bret: That's just Doink, Vince stop changing the subject.....so I'm going over Yoko at Summerslam and winning the...
Vince: Ha ha ha ha! Look at that clown! I gotta go pal, I'll catch up with you later

I admit I laughed at that look there's a Clown bit 😄👏

I should say maybe Vince changed his mind. As for Hogan he buried Bret in WCW so it wasn't like that was the only time. There was supposed to be a Hogan/Hart feud and to be WCW's attempt to break into the Canadian market but Hogan put the breaks on that. Bret only got the WCW belt when Hogan left for a bit, (then he got injured 🙁) so you can't say Hogan wasn't acting like a punk then.

[timelimitdraw]

Watched it when I was 13 and even then, I knew that the ending sucked. I legitimately wondered if Yokozuna was supposed to get pinned and they called an audible or something, because I couldn't fathom why they'd have a celebration like that planned in advance without a title change.

It would be like Hogan celebrating for beating The Iron Sheik by countout but not winning the title. It makes no sense.

[flakeymcgill]

There's also the issue that the USS Intrepid event makes zero sense unless:

A) You build around Hogan, or
B) You create a new Hogan.

Unless Vince woke up one day and decided that the best person to slam Yokozuna on America's birthday and defend the stars and stripes and go on to face him at Summerslam to defend the United States of America...was the Canadian Bret Hart.

Presumably you don't book an aircraft carrier at short notice so the arrangement to hold an event on 4th of July on that vessel presumably was made long in advance, maybe even prior to Wrestlemania.

That's another reason that makes the whole 'Actually, Vince really wanted Bret to go over Hogan' thing a really awkward fit.

[mauled]

Sept 22, 2019 11:48:27 GMT -5 flakeymcgill said:

There's also the issue that the USS Intrepid event makes zero sense unless:

A) You build around Hogan, or
B) You create a new Hogan.

Unless Vince woke up one day and decided that the best person to slam Yokozuna on America's birthday and defend the stars and stripes and go on to face him at Summerslam to defend the United States of America...was the Canadian Bret Hart.

Presumably you don't book an aircraft carrier at short notice so the arrangement to hold an event on 4th of July on that vessel presumably was made long in advance, maybe even prior to Wrestlemania.

That's another reason that makes the whole 'Actually, Vince really wanted Bret to go over Hogan' thing a really awkward fit.

Well Vince had changed his mind yet again by the Rumble.

Also who was headlining the House shows before and after Summerslam ? I know Hulk did a few with Yoko and Bret did some. I just find it hard to see Lex headlining a House show and people paying to see it 🤔