Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Oct 5, 2019 10:58:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's any fanbase out there more insecure than MCU fans.
Have the most successful films in the world, but then must denigrate any and everybody who criticizes them.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 5, 2019 11:10:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's any fanbase out there more insecure than MCU fans. Have the most successful films in the world, but then must denigrate any and everybody who criticizes them. They have the right to respond if the films they love are themselves denigrated.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Oct 5, 2019 11:12:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's any fanbase out there more insecure than MCU fans. Have the most successful films in the world, but then must denigrate any and everybody who criticizes them. They have the right to respond if the films they love are themselves denigrated. But not the way they have here. Talking shit about one of the best directors in all of cinema and downplaying his work. Same thing they've done to people like James Cameron and Tarantino. That's how they always react.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 11:13:41 GMT -5
They have the right to respond if the films they love are themselves denigrated. But not the way they have here. Sure they do. You also have the right to ignore their criticism.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 5, 2019 11:14:09 GMT -5
They have the right to respond if the films they love are themselves denigrated. But not the way they have here. Talking shit about one of the best directors in all of cinema and downplaying his work. Same thing they've done to people like James Cameron and Tarantino. That's how they always react. "They" are not a bloc. Some fans will offer better retorts than others. It could also be said that he is downplaying the work of others.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 5, 2019 11:22:03 GMT -5
Martin Scorsese isn't even criticizing the MCU movies. He's outright dismissing them as works of art without even seeing them.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 5, 2019 11:24:13 GMT -5
I'm just not sure why you would respond to anyone saying they don't like the thing you like other than
"Ok."
Even if they said the thing you like is low brow or stupid or whatever.
"Ok."
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Oct 5, 2019 11:29:36 GMT -5
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Post by thechase on Oct 5, 2019 11:32:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's any fanbase out there more insecure than MCU fans. Have the most successful films in the world, but then must denigrate any and everybody who criticizes them. Word. To be fair, I expect most of those people to outgrow Marvel movies in time, let them have their fun for now.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 5, 2019 11:38:27 GMT -5
You call me a liar and the first thing you quote is Scorsese literally saying "I don't see them." Cool story bro. The bolded part doesn't even mean anything. Could just mean he saw 5 minutes of The Avengers and walked out in disgust. That's kind of the problem when you're dismissing an entire body of films with completely different directors and screenwriters based on limited exposure.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Oct 5, 2019 11:40:56 GMT -5
You call me a liar and the first thing you quote is Scorsese literally saying "I don't see them." Cool story bro. The bolded part doesn't even mean anything. Could just mean he saw 5 minutes of The Avengers and walked out in disgust. That's kind of the problem when you're dismissing an entire body of films with completely different directors and screenwriters based on limited exposure.
He also said they're well made and the actors work hard. Kind of hard to do that if(as you claim, without any basis whatsoever) that he probably only saw 5 minutes of the Avengers.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 5, 2019 11:43:58 GMT -5
He can know they're well-made and the actors work hard without seeing the movies, though. Dude's a legend in the industry and has hundreds, perhaps thousands of connections.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 11:49:46 GMT -5
Mochi Lone WolfCynoHey, going to tell you both to stop sniping at each other or you can leave the thread. You can discuss this without saying stuff like "Cool story bro" and "as you claim, without any basis whatsoever".
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Oct 5, 2019 11:56:04 GMT -5
Meh, his criticism is fairly mild, but it still reminds me of people who say Disney and other animated movies are "just for kids", while completely ignoring the emotional investment and drama they can generate. It's someone who's decided that cinema has to be a certain way to be valid, and anything that doesn't fall into that format must not be "real" cinema, regardless of the writing or performance presented.
Also, yes, Martin Scorsese is a great filmmaker, but just because someone is really good at their particular medium, does not immediately mean their opinion is gospel. As noted in this thread as well as others, people with a lot of experience in a particular field, such as Siskel and Ebert, JK Rowling, or even Vince McMahon, can still have questionable opinions, and they are not above criticism just because they did some good stuff in the past.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Oct 5, 2019 13:21:26 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's any fanbase out there more insecure than MCU fans. Have the most successful films in the world, but then must denigrate any and everybody who criticizes them. "Its not cinema" isn't a valid criticism though. If Scorcese had said "it's not my thing because XYZ" then that would be fine, but that's not what he did. What he did is basically the equivalent of a pretentious music snob going "oh but Rap isnt really music..."
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clifford
King Koopa
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Post by clifford on Oct 5, 2019 13:35:23 GMT -5
A director with the career of Martin Scorsese can absoultely dismiss comic book films: they are the movie equivalent of fast food and he's into gourmet.
But fast food is still food, and just because food is gourmet doesn't mean it tastes good.
He can hold that opinion and be right. People can disagree with him and call him elitist and argue that these films are just as much art as his movies and be right. It's all subjective and I don't get why people are so hung up on one viewpoint being the 'correct' one.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Oct 5, 2019 16:19:09 GMT -5
Popcorn action movies are certainly a different sort of thing than say, Taxi Driver, but I think he seriously underestimates the emotional content the Marvel films and others like them can bring. I mean, he admittedly hasn't seen them, so how could he not? If you want to know what sort of films Scorsese prefers, here is a list of some of his favorites. It isn't surprising that the list draws heavily from Italian neorealism, French New Wave, and similar film styles. www.indiewire.com/gallery/martin-scorsese-favorite-films-movies/ To say that something is "cinema" and something is not just seems like silly gatekeeping. The craft that goes into a major tentpole Marvel film is no less impressive than anything Scorsese has done. They may have different values, but they not of less value. Roger Ebert was a wonderful critic for these sorts of things - he tried to judge movies by what genre they were, and what they were trying to accomplish. Here is Ebert's 5/5 review of Iron Man, for example. www.rogerebert.com/reviews/iron-man-2008I would have loved to hear what he would have to say about Infinity War and Endgame. I had no idea Martin loves horror so much. I would love to see him have another go at one. Who am I to disagree with Marty? Superhero movies are largely just forgettable disposable movies. They are art and cinema, but not movies that will be held up as modern classics, and that's fine.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Oct 5, 2019 16:26:17 GMT -5
I'm not a big movie guy. I watch them from time to time and I enjoy them. Maybe I'll watch two or three movies a year, sometimes more, sometimes less... almost never in a theater.
To put it this way... I wanna see Endgame... I will eventually, no idea when that'll be, and I've only seen about half of all the MCU movies.
To me, movies are movies.
However, if you walk up to me and tell me your favorite metal band is Disturbed or Slipknot... I'm gonna get kinda salty because I don't, personally consider them metal as that's my genre of choice. I'm the douchebag who does categorize my metal by insane subgenre.... brutal death metal, depressive black metal, symphonic power metal, folk power metal, Sludge metal, etc,..... it's the genre I'm most entrenched in as far as music goes. However, someone who is not as entrenched as me will look at me and say, "Dude.... Disturbed is sold in the same racks as Dark Funeral.... ergo, metal."
That's the comparison I make. A guy like Scorsese, who's entire life has been movies, who is one of the most celebrated filmmakers of all time. He'll notices differences between genres, movie making styles, etc,.... and when it doesn't appeal to him, he won't group it in with what he likes. It makes sense to me.
Also.... it is possible to like someone, but not agree with them. So if you enjoy Marvel movies as well as respect his opinion, that's totally cool. You can do that. You don't have to go completely one way or another if someone you respect and admire has an opposing viewpoint.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 5, 2019 16:40:17 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything to outgrow really.
It's like with food, sometimes you want a really well prepared steak&sometimes you just want a good burger. There's nothing wrong with either. You're not going to want steak all the time. Sometimes you just want a well good burger.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Oct 5, 2019 16:42:53 GMT -5
Clearly he did not watch Captain America: The Winter Soldier (which he sort of admitted). I think that film holds up regardless of the genre you want to place it into.
Outside of that, I don't actually get his point. Did he tell his close friend George Lucas that his little film Star Wars wasn't cinema? I mean, it has about the same qualities as the Marvel films do. How about his other friend, Steven Spielberg? Did he tell him that Jurassic Park was a theme park?
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