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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 18:19:29 GMT -5
I think Groot is adorable. Just throwing that out there. That's not Baby Groot, that's Joe Pesci.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 4, 2019 18:19:46 GMT -5
I don't agree with his word choice, but I get the sentiment.
EDIT: Though I've always carved out an exception for Gunn's work on Guardians, that's a clear cut above...though even then I couldn't help but feel like Guardians 2 was hurt by the need to fit things into the cinematic universe formula when it was so close to being better than the first.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 4, 2019 18:22:21 GMT -5
Who's to say what is or isn't cinema? Scorsese is one of my all-time favorite filmmakers, but I don't think even he gets to make that determination. In the most literal sense, cinema is merely the art of making motion pictures. You can apply additional filters to separate one kind of movie from another, but they're all cinema. Goodfellas, Citizen Kane, Toy Story, Sharknado, Avengers: Endgame, Hobo With a Shotgun, and Deep Throat are all very different kinds of movies aimed at very different kinds of audiences, but they're all equally valid forms of cinema. Scorsese's gatekeeping is very much akin to a five-star Michelin chef claiming fast food isn't real food.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Oct 4, 2019 18:24:49 GMT -5
Roger Ebert was a wonderful critic for these sorts of things - he tried to judge movies by what genre they were, and what they were trying to accomplish. Ehhhhh, he still had his moments of very stupid elitism, like the way he'd throw absolute tantrums over slasher movies. I’ve always thought it was such a trash move to try and give out Betsy Palmer’s phone number just because he didn’t like Friday the 13th. He hasn’t nearly gotten enough shit for that.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 6,937
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Post by mcstoklasa on Oct 4, 2019 18:32:14 GMT -5
Superhero movies are junk.
In my opinion.
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Post by wildojinx on Oct 4, 2019 19:10:33 GMT -5
Ehhhhh, he still had his moments of very stupid elitism, like the way he'd throw absolute tantrums over slasher movies. I’ve always thought it was such a trash move to try and give out Betsy Palmer’s phone number just because he didn’t like Friday the 13th. He hasn’t nearly gotten enough shit for that. That was Gene Siskel. Still horrible (I hope Betsy didnt suffer any harrasment due to that).
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Oct 4, 2019 20:30:55 GMT -5
I don't really understand why people would care or why they'd be surprised. In no way would I have thought Scorsese would like superhero movies anyway, but ya know whatever. I still like them and him. My best friend isn't a fan of Monty Python; doesn't mean I'm gonna beat him with a pillowcase fulla doorknobs. Pretty much. As a huge fan of Scorcese's work, I'm still going to enjoy my superhero flicks regardless of whatever he says.
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Post by King Boo on Oct 4, 2019 22:17:21 GMT -5
I don't agree with his word choice, but I get the sentiment. EDIT: Though I've always carved out an exception for Gunn's work on Guardians, that's a clear cut above...though even then I couldn't help but feel like Guardians 2 was hurt by the need to fit things into the cinematic universe formula when it was so close to being better than the first. Interestingly (as it pertains to Scorsese), Guardians 2 is one of my absolute favorite MCU movies - more than Guardians 1 - because of the emotional, personal element. As much as I love Guardians 1 (and I do), the whole arc with Yondu being Quill's dad as well as how much of himself he saw in Rocket (and vice versa) spoke to my heart. They may have been a half-celestial, an alien and a raccoon, but they were all human. And now that I think about it, some of my favorite aspects across the universe are tied to the things Scorsese says don't exist there: Loki and Thor's complicated but ultimately loving brotherly relationship; Scott's love for Cassie; Clint and Natasha's enduring friendship; Nebula's entire growth from Guardians 1 through Endgame, including her sisterhood with Gamora; the "family doesn't end with blood" relationships between the Guardians as well as Bucky and Steve... I'm sure I could go on, but those were the ones that flew to mind just in a couple of minutes.
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Post by RadcapRadsley on Oct 5, 2019 0:31:40 GMT -5
I don't agree with his word choice, but I get the sentiment. EDIT: Though I've always carved out an exception for Gunn's work on Guardians, that's a clear cut above...though even then I couldn't help but feel like Guardians 2 was hurt by the need to fit things into the cinematic universe formula when it was so close to being better than the first. I like Guardians but even then they throw in scene's that in a bubble only exist to promote another Marvel film or Guardian Sequel's. Like you don't have any throwaway scene's in Shutter Island that exist to get people to watch Hugo and nothing in Tarintino's Pulp Fiction existed to promote Jackie Brown or Kill Bill.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Oct 5, 2019 0:37:49 GMT -5
I don't agree with his word choice, but I get the sentiment. EDIT: Though I've always carved out an exception for Gunn's work on Guardians, that's a clear cut above...though even then I couldn't help but feel like Guardians 2 was hurt by the need to fit things into the cinematic universe formula when it was so close to being better than the first. Gunn’s the first and only person I thought of when I first read Scorseses comments. It’s appropriate he responded. Probably because I think GOTG is an absolute classic. And there’s so much emotion, and character development there amongst a non stop fun film. It’s Gunns thumbprint all over it. It’s his baby. All that being said, I still think TWS is still the best film itself that the MCU has put out but Guardians is just a gem of a film. And that’s where Scorseses comments dwindle away to me because as many have pointed out it’s in our perspective, our hearts etc. but also fair to Martin cause dudes old and just got asked a question he tried phrasing his own true view on films.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Oct 5, 2019 1:12:40 GMT -5
I wish more people would treat the MCU like high art, maybe then there would be substantive critiques of these movies?
The social media response to Scorsese's remarks so desperately wants superhero comic book movies to be respected, but only if they are uncritically appraised for their entertainment value, which a) seems like a boring perspective to have about any piece of "cinema" or "art," and b) that also, bizarrely, makes Disney out to be an underdog.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 5, 2019 2:37:31 GMT -5
I don’t think Marvels intent was ever to make cinematic masterpieces
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,548
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Oct 5, 2019 4:24:30 GMT -5
“I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you over the sound of all this money,” - Kevin Feige
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 5, 2019 6:58:27 GMT -5
It's easy to dismiss the merits of thing you have no knowledge of, and the fact you do so reflects more badly on you than on the object of your scorn.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 5, 2019 7:23:40 GMT -5
I don't agree with his word choice, but I get the sentiment. EDIT: Though I've always carved out an exception for Gunn's work on Guardians, that's a clear cut above...though even then I couldn't help but feel like Guardians 2 was hurt by the need to fit things into the cinematic universe formula when it was so close to being better than the first. Interestingly (as it pertains to Scorsese), Guardians 2 is one of my absolute favorite MCU movies - more than Guardians 1 - because of the emotional, personal element. As much as I love Guardians 1 (and I do), the whole arc with Yondu being Quill's dad as well as how much of himself he saw in Rocket (and vice versa) spoke to my heart. They may have been a half-celestial, an alien and a raccoon, but they were all human. And now that I think about it, some of my favorite aspects across the universe are tied to the things Scorsese says don't exist there: Loki and Thor's complicated but ultimately loving brotherly relationship; Scott's love for Cassie; Clint and Natasha's enduring friendship; Nebula's entire growth from Guardians 1 through Endgame, including her sisterhood with Gamora; the "family doesn't end with blood" relationships between the Guardians as well as Bucky and Steve... I'm sure I could go on, but those were the ones that flew to mind just in a couple of minutes. Oh yeah, I should have said that part of why Guardians 2 was, to me at least, almost better than the original is just how strongly they nailed the family relationships; to me the ending was the most "earned" emotional moment in the Marvel films that I've seen. That said I couldn't help but feel like the film was overstuffed, and a lot of the emotional material didn't get as much of a chance to breathe as I was hoping since nearly every character had to get an emotional arc in before the end, which I attribute in part to the film having to fit into the MCU release schedule rather than being able to tell all its own stories at its own pace.
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Post by thechase on Oct 5, 2019 7:58:41 GMT -5
“I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you over the sound of all this money,” - Kevin Feige If "money is quality" were a real argument, nobody would complain about WWE on here.
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Bad Moon
Unicron
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Posts: 3,091
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Post by Bad Moon on Oct 5, 2019 8:04:50 GMT -5
He's not wrong.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Oct 5, 2019 8:08:38 GMT -5
I wish more people would treat the MCU like high art, maybe then there would be substantive critiques of these movies? The social media response to Scorsese's remarks so desperately wants superhero comic book movies to be respected, but only if they are uncritically appraised for their entertainment value, which a) seems like a boring perspective to have about any piece of "cinema" or "art," and b) that also, bizarrely, makes Disney out to be an underdog. There’s serious critiques (some substantive, some...not) of Marvel and comic book movies all over the internet. I’ve run into a number of vloggers and others complaining about Captain Marvel allegedly being pro-military, or the Avengers being too rooted in “great man theory.” And even if I don’t agree with those specific points, which I don’t (Carol being a pilot is just plain exciting, fairly benign as far as subtext- and an Avengers movie lacking any cool fights or not emphasizing how extraordinarily the heroes are would be way too slow IMO), the MCU I feel does have enough weight in their stories to warrant discussion similar to “highbrow” cinema. Black Panther looking at the ills of colonialism, Winter Soldier and government surveillance, etc. It’s easier than ever to find superhero film analysis these days.
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Welfare Willis
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Posts: 44,259
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Post by Welfare Willis on Oct 5, 2019 9:21:48 GMT -5
It's funny because I was watching Joker and they clearly took notes from Taxi Driver.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 37,295
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 5, 2019 10:43:38 GMT -5
It's funny because I was watching Joker and they clearly took notes from Taxi Driver. I got that vibe the moment I saw the trailer. It's Taxi Driver in grease paint.
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