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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 29, 2019 14:44:53 GMT -5
They need to start recruiting big names to feel more credible. Right now it's Evil Uno, his henchman Stu and a bunch of Putties. But they're embracing how absurd it is, which is a positive.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 29, 2019 15:56:47 GMT -5
I didn't feel most of the criticisms from this past week: they used huge numbers to swarm people who were already tired from having wrestled that night, they weren't jobbing out the Bucks clean or something. I think the real conversation to be had is if it was the right time to have them going after guys in the Elite or if that was too early and they should've been targeting guys more in the midcard first, definitely something to mull over on that.
But on the whole the guys are pretty great: their actual tag matches are usually great because they have as good a comprehension of the mechanics of tag wrestling as any team I've watched in a good while, and the past month-plus has brought about the vignettes that are doing a great job building them up. It was understandable that people were confused by them at first, does feel like it was a mistake not to use the videos first, but there's too much talent there for it to not work out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 23:58:48 GMT -5
I like them, they remind me of Cobra Commander first starting Cobra.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 0:32:57 GMT -5
In the ring they're probably my favorite team in the company. As for everything else, I'm not *quite* there yet, but there are a lot of things I like. The tweaks have been largely successful and I'm definitely intrigued in seeing how everything plays out. The air punches being front and center last week was unfortunate, and it wasn't totally clear what Uno did to the Buck's mouth, but otherwise I thought the segment was awesome. Uno and Stu looked badass.
I do hope that when on the mic Uno hits the sweet sinister motivational speaker/mob boss notes (like when he was recruiting Marko) and not so much of the twirly mustache mwwwuhaha'ing cartoon villain stuff. Everything else about them is over the top and ridiculous -- and that's fine, it works, but Uno is a great talker can do a lot more with this character.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 30, 2019 0:48:39 GMT -5
A nice touch would be their looks evolving as their numbers grow (I.E. the Creepers’ outfits looking a bit elaborate over time)
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Post by Cyno on Dec 30, 2019 1:05:30 GMT -5
They stumbled out the gate, but ever since they started with the soft reboot, I've become a fan. Plus their matches are solid, and Evil Uno has a real presence on the mic you wouldn't really expect.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 30, 2019 1:26:44 GMT -5
I like them a good deal. I enjoy that "Put them down" has become a thing for Uno.
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Post by AJ Smudgico on Dec 30, 2019 13:18:06 GMT -5
Like them, think they're coming across threatening enough in a way that works in wrestling.
Had the idea they might recruit Christopher Daniels and reboot his Fallen Angel gimmick, but doubt theyd break up SCU
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 31, 2019 8:11:23 GMT -5
I think people are also jumping the gun on them being the main event storyline. The main event storyline is Moxley and Jericho. Dark Order's story branches into several different areas. The Bucks with Cutler, Omega with Nakazawa, SCU with Daniels, maybe even going back to Jurassic Express with Stunt. They're planting the seeds and calling their shots. I don't see anything wrong with a heel group going after two teams who have already had a grueling match to send a statement. Uno's got a mob boss mentality, it makes sense they would do that.
I stand by that I don't think they were the part of the segment that sucked or took the air out of the place. SCU retaining was. They aren't connecting to the crowd as a face team, and when you have the most talented pool of tag teams in recent memory, them being champions feels like a lead fart. I don't hate them but they gotta lose the belts soon.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 31, 2019 8:14:50 GMT -5
For the people who hate Aew, the Dark Order is a very easy target. " haha, a BuncH oF guyS in MAsks! ThEir leaDEr is FAt!" So I wouldn't worry about the negativity. Most of the people giving AEW a fair shake I noticed like the group. While I do agree that Dark Order is an easy target, I would also argue that all hardcore AEW supporters aren't exactly in love with the group either. Hell, Dave Meltzer shit on it and I think it goes without saying that he's an AEW supporter. I'm someone who would love for AEW to get to WCW-levels of kicking WWE's ass and I think the gimmick is awful and not at all what I thought AEW was going to be. I've said it in other threads, but if you're a causal fan, that Dark Order nonsense is just going to make you change the channel. Look at the way both shows ended last Wednesday. Rhea Ripley's celebration vs. fat guys in body suits and masks following around another fat guy in a mask doing spooky laughs, cheesy dialogue, and ripping out a dude's tongue (I guess that was the insinuation?). I get that some people like it and I respect that, but that shouldn't be a main event gimmick in your company if you're wanting to compete with WWE. Meltz isn't a big AEW fan, Alvarez is. Dave really cherrypicks shit with AEW. As for the casual fan argument, we literally have people saying in this thread that their friends are buying AEW tickets who have never seen the show based off of The Dark Order, so believe and insinuate what you want but the notion that these kind of acts can't or won't attract the casual fan is bullshit imo. Wrestling can be anything you want it to be and can appeal to a mass audience, and AEW's doing a lot of different stuff to attract those types, and for the most part so far it's been working, especially with their big shows. Also stated above, I don't think this is the main event gimmick, it just closed the show, and I think it would have had a better reaction if SCU didn't retain, Dark Order wasn't the problem there to me, it was the timing. But they've had two solid weeks to see everything going on and move it forward, so let's see how their unopposed New Years Day show goes.
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Post by Dub H on Dec 31, 2019 9:45:25 GMT -5
While I do agree that Dark Order is an easy target, I would also argue that all hardcore AEW supporters aren't exactly in love with the group either. Hell, Dave Meltzer shit on it and I think it goes without saying that he's an AEW supporter. I'm someone who would love for AEW to get to WCW-levels of kicking WWE's ass and I think the gimmick is awful and not at all what I thought AEW was going to be. I've said it in other threads, but if you're a causal fan, that Dark Order nonsense is just going to make you change the channel. Look at the way both shows ended last Wednesday. Rhea Ripley's celebration vs. fat guys in body suits and masks following around another fat guy in a mask doing spooky laughs, cheesy dialogue, and ripping out a dude's tongue (I guess that was the insinuation?). I get that some people like it and I respect that, but that shouldn't be a main event gimmick in your company if you're wanting to compete with WWE. Meltz isn't a big AEW fan, Alvarez is. Dave really cherrypicks shit with AEW. As for the casual fan argument, we literally have people saying in this thread that their friends are buying AEW tickets who have never seen the show based off of The Dark Order, so believe and insinuate what you want but the notion that these kind of acts can't or won't attract the casual fan is bullshit imo. Wrestling can be anything you want it to be and can appeal to a mass audience, and AEW's doing a lot of different stuff to attract those types, and for the most part so far it's been working, especially with their big shows. Also stated above, I don't think this is the main event gimmick, it just closed the show, and I think it would have had a better reaction if SCU didn't retain, Dark Order wasn't the problem there to me, it was the timing. But they've had two solid weeks to see everything going on and move it forward, so let's see how their unopposed New Years Day show goes. Yeh there is a lot of " but that doesnt appeal to the casuals!"... well how do you know? And even if true what is wrong with having things that appeal to your more enfranchised fanbase? And yeh at least with SCU we can judge off weeks of being champions and their reactions
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warden
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Post by warden on Dec 31, 2019 16:06:37 GMT -5
You know how you get that last segment over and get the crowd popping regardless of the "scu excuse."
The same scenario plays out with our hapless heroes getting their asses kicked by the dark order while they continue to spout their join us or die schtick. Looks like this is the end right? Wrong! Because from amongst the crowd arises our hero, jon moxley. Crowd goes wild. He storms his way towards the dark order like the badass he supposedly is. Armed with nothing but his fists and badassery he jumps the rail. The goons advance on him and are gifted with a flurry of punches and kicks. Jon then continues into the ring at this point he's a juggernaut, unstoppable, and proceeds to kick ass and not take names cause he forgot his pen. The bucks join him to help clean out the dark order like yesterday's garbage.
Matt then comes up to jon and thanks him, only surprise he eats a ddt for his troubles. Nick then comes up and goes hey man that's my bro what are you doing? Same thing I'm going to do to you, cue ball. Wham he joins his brother on the canvas too. A recuperated kenny jumps into the ring and confront jon and he asks what's gotten into you? Oh you want some too? Omae wa mou shindeiru. Kenny goes what? Wamo gets a ddt for his insolence. Jon then shakes his head and wags his tongue and does that weird tick face he does while the crowd is chanting his name
JR goes Bawww Ghaaaddd, Jon Moxley stands alone king! We then end our show with the lasting image of jon pumping his chest with wacky faces surrounded by bodies and a raucous crowd. A few will hate it and complain but it won't matter because it will be received with overall positivity. And all people will be talking about is man did you see how awesome jon moxley was last night? I sure did he is my knew hero. I want to be like him when I grow up. Let's tune in next week to see what he does. Nah bro let's go support him by buying plane tickets and paying to see him live and then buy his merchandise. Excellent, high fives ensue followed by air guitars
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Dec 31, 2019 16:24:36 GMT -5
You know how you get that last segment over and get the crowd popping regardless of the "scu excuse." The same scenario plays out with our hapless heroes getting their asses kicked by the dark order while they continue to spout their join us or die schtick. Looks like this is the end right? Wrong! Because from amongst the crowd arises our hero, jon moxley. Crowd goes wild. He storms his way towards the dark order like the badass he supposedly is. Armed with nothing but his fists and badassery he jumps the rail. The goons advance on him and are gifted with a flurry of punches and kicks. Jon then continues into the ring at this point he's a juggernaut, unstoppable, and proceeds to kick ass and not take names cause he forgot his pen. The bucks join him to help clean out the dark order like yesterday's garbage. Matt then comes up to jon and thanks him, only surprise he eats a ddt for his troubles. Nick then comes up and goes hey man that's my bro what are you doing? Same thing I'm going to do to you, cue ball. Wham he joins his brother on the canvas too. A recuperated kenny jumps into the ring and confront jon and he asks what's gotten into you? Oh you want some too? Omae wa mou shindeiru. Kenny goes what? Wamo gets a ddt for his insolence. Jon then shakes his head and wags his tongue and does that weird tick face he does while the crowd is chanting his name JR goes Bawww Ghaaaddd, Jon Moxley stands alone king! We then end our show with the lasting image of jon pumping his chest with wacky faces surrounded by bodies and a raucous crowd. A few will hate it and complain but it won't matter because it will be received with overall positivity. And all people will be talking about is man did you see how awesome jon moxley was last night? I sure did he is my knew hero. I want to be like him when I grow up. Let's tune in next week to see what he does. Nah bro let's go support him by buying plane tickets and paying to see him live and then buy his merchandise. Excellent, high fives ensue followed by air guitars I have two problems with that suggestion: 1. Moxley has no reason to get involved. He wants the AEW title, which means he wants Jericho. He doesn't care about the Dark Order, or the Elite, or SCU. He only cared about Omega because Omega was between him and the title. 2. You're suggesting sacrificing whatever heat the Dark Order has built up over the past few weeks to Moxley, who absolutely doesn't need it. He's already one of the most over guys on the roster, he doesn't need to go over guys who are still being built up. That's some 2010 Cena booking.
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warden
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Post by warden on Dec 31, 2019 17:16:51 GMT -5
You know how you get that last segment over and get the crowd popping regardless of the "scu excuse." The same scenario plays out with our hapless heroes getting their asses kicked by the dark order while they continue to spout their join us or die schtick. Looks like this is the end right? Wrong! Because from amongst the crowd arises our hero, jon moxley. Crowd goes wild. He storms his way towards the dark order like the badass he supposedly is. Armed with nothing but his fists and badassery he jumps the rail. The goons advance on him and are gifted with a flurry of punches and kicks. Jon then continues into the ring at this point he's a juggernaut, unstoppable, and proceeds to kick ass and not take names cause he forgot his pen. The bucks join him to help clean out the dark order like yesterday's garbage. Matt then comes up to jon and thanks him, only surprise he eats a ddt for his troubles. Nick then comes up and goes hey man that's my bro what are you doing? Same thing I'm going to do to you, cue ball. Wham he joins his brother on the canvas too. A recuperated kenny jumps into the ring and confront jon and he asks what's gotten into you? Oh you want some too? Omae wa mou shindeiru. Kenny goes what? Wamo gets a ddt for his insolence. Jon then shakes his head and wags his tongue and does that weird tick face he does while the crowd is chanting his name JR goes Bawww Ghaaaddd, Jon Moxley stands alone king! We then end our show with the lasting image of jon pumping his chest with wacky faces surrounded by bodies and a raucous crowd. A few will hate it and complain but it won't matter because it will be received with overall positivity. And all people will be talking about is man did you see how awesome jon moxley was last night? I sure did he is my knew hero. I want to be like him when I grow up. Let's tune in next week to see what he does. Nah bro let's go support him by buying plane tickets and paying to see him live and then buy his merchandise. Excellent, high fives ensue followed by air guitars I have two problems with that suggestion: 1. Moxley has no reason to get involved. He wants the AEW title, which means he wants Jericho. He doesn't care about the Dark Order, or the Elite, or SCU. He only cared about Omega because Omega was between him and the title. 2. You're suggesting sacrificing whatever heat the Dark Order has built up over the past few weeks to Moxley, who absolutely doesn't need it. He's already one of the most over guys on the roster, he doesn't need to go over guys who are still being built up. That's some 2010 Cena booking. 1. I am under the impression jon is an agent of chaos and is attracted to a good old fashion fight. So when there is one he appears. That and I am also assuming someone sent him out there in a desperate attempt to save the segment 2. Lol you nailed the 2010 booking thing but it's also an austin thing. But them dark order boys needed to be sent back down. They were just thrown out there with main eventers when they're still a low to mid card act. They haven't been built up enough to be in such a spot
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 31, 2019 19:19:13 GMT -5
I have two problems with that suggestion: 1. Moxley has no reason to get involved. He wants the AEW title, which means he wants Jericho. He doesn't care about the Dark Order, or the Elite, or SCU. He only cared about Omega because Omega was between him and the title. 2. You're suggesting sacrificing whatever heat the Dark Order has built up over the past few weeks to Moxley, who absolutely doesn't need it. He's already one of the most over guys on the roster, he doesn't need to go over guys who are still being built up. That's some 2010 Cena booking. 1. I am under the impression jon is an agent of chaos and is attracted to a good old fashion fight. So when there is one he appears. That and I am also assuming someone sent him out there in a desperate attempt to save the segment 2. Lol you nailed the 2010 booking thing but it's also an austin thing. But them dark order boys needed to be sent back down. They were just thrown out there with main eventers when they're still a low to mid card act. They haven't been built up enough to be in such a spotThey literally came out and picked the bones of two teams to send a statement. Also, they've beaten some good teams in their tenure already in AEW. I'm kinda sick of people acting like Dark Order took on "Untouchable Main Eventers" in a fair fight when in reality is they took on two tired teams with an army behind them and that's why they dismantled them. They also had vignettes for their re-debut for weeks. Your notions to "Save the segment" are lost on me, Moxley being here would make things even weirder, and the crowd would have 100 percent been more into it if the Bucks won, it's not an "SCU Excuse", they're not an over team, they're even less over than Dark Order is right now and they deflated the crowd. Bucks winning would have popped them for what came after. Overall I'm just tired of people looking down on Dark Order like they "aren't ready" for this or can't hang, these guys are good, the segment just didn't click for a number of reasons and people are ready to write them off as a failure and it's annoying to say the least.
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warden
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Post by warden on Jan 1, 2020 18:11:50 GMT -5
1. I am under the impression jon is an agent of chaos and is attracted to a good old fashion fight. So when there is one he appears. That and I am also assuming someone sent him out there in a desperate attempt to save the segment 2. Lol you nailed the 2010 booking thing but it's also an austin thing. But them dark order boys needed to be sent back down. They were just thrown out there with main eventers when they're still a low to mid card act. They haven't been built up enough to be in such a spotThey literally came out and picked the bones of two teams to send a statement. Also, they've beaten some good teams in their tenure already in AEW. I'm kinda sick of people acting like Dark Order took on "Untouchable Main Eventers" in a fair fight when in reality is they took on two tired teams with an army behind them and that's why they dismantled them. They also had vignettes for their re-debut for weeks. Your notions to "Save the segment" are lost on me, Moxley being here would make things even weirder, and the crowd would have 100 percent been more into it if the Bucks won, it's not an "SCU Excuse", they're not an over team, they're even less over than Dark Order is right now and they deflated the crowd. Bucks winning would have popped them for what came after. Overall I'm just tired of people looking down on Dark Order like they "aren't ready" for this or can't hang, these guys are good, the segment just didn't click for a number of reasons and people are ready to write them off as a failure and it's annoying to say the least. Cody got a pop from that crowd when he rushed out, cause he's an over act, so the crowd wasn't completely dead. They just wanted to react to a top star. But then cody and the others got curb stomped by goons in masks, not even named wrestlers, and the audience got kicked in the gut again. I don't believe the dark order is as over as people think they are, a nice little act sure but not top level yet, if ever. They didn't get booed or cheered there was just huh? Who? And what's going on? They aren't ready, brother. They have just re-established themselves as these cult freaks and last time I saw them in the ring they all got molly whopped by one guy, luchasaurus. It was a great segment and I thought it was going to lead to a fun little feud between these two teams, but I guess they've forgotten about that storyline. And then, abruptly, these guys run over the top stars when they struggled with a lower act. Had they just attacked the bucks and scu the segment would have probably been fine. Or better yet they could have built up these guys on the previous shows by having them attack random people backstage or in the ring during a match. Build up this sense of dread that hey these guys will attack anyone at any time and no one is safe. That might have helped them out instead of just rushing them to the top.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 1, 2020 18:55:27 GMT -5
I will say this - I've gone from changing the channel to enjoying hating them.
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