Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,330
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Post by Fade on Mar 3, 2020 21:02:25 GMT -5
The fact that his WWE run has made people view him as a “dime-a-dozen flippy guy” should really tell you all you need to know about their booking. There’s a reason he was in high demand when they signed him and as WWE usually does, they haven’t held up their end of the bargain and put him in spots to show what he can really do. Basically this. Does Ricochet lack intangible charisma? Easily arguable. Could he be presented in a way to both compensate and accentuate him? Definitely. In WWE?... ![](https://i.imgflip.com/1r5o7y.jpg?a439728)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 21:09:22 GMT -5
Seriously what happened to this confidence...maybe he needs to take a lesson from Io where she was pretty meandering as a babyface in NXT she looked and took inspiration from her time in LU and reinvented herself....maybe he needs to to do the same.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 3, 2020 21:22:18 GMT -5
I'm sure Ricochet will get another chance down the road. For whatever reason he just isnt considered a priority right now.
In some instances it is just needing to be patient I will admit. But at the same time WWE seems to forget that if a wrestler is shown to be irrelevant for too long when you do decide to do something with them the crowd wont care. Alvarez and Meltzer mentioned in a few months ago when Andrade and Sin Cara were feuding. Doesnt matter if the matches were good. WWE fans have been conditioned to view Sin Cara doesnt matter.
Is Ricochet at that point? No. In hindsight should he have stayed in NXT a bit longer? Yes. Does he deserve better? Yeah probably. Is he the worst treated person in WWE? Not yet
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 21:30:03 GMT -5
Seriously what happened to this confidence...maybe he needs to take a lesson from Io where she was pretty meandering as a babyface in NXT she looked and took inspiration from her time in LU and reinvented herself....maybe he needs to to do the same. He's playing a character here so it's easier to latch onto compared to the main roster stuff he's doing where they're not even letting him be a character nor himself.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Somebody stop him! He's supposed to die!
Posts: 7,028
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Post by schma on Mar 3, 2020 21:33:34 GMT -5
Strangely enough the WWE.com write up played up the fact that he was still beat up from the Brock match and painted this as a valiant attempt to get his groove back but his body wasn't 100%. How much you want to bet none of that reasoning made it to the show?
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 3, 2020 22:25:45 GMT -5
Beaten up? The guy lost in about 90 seconds. It was an F5 and thanks for coming.
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Post by toodarkmark on Mar 3, 2020 23:10:26 GMT -5
The fact that his WWE run has made people view him as a “dime-a-dozen flippy guy” should really tell you all you need to know about their booking. There’s a reason he was in high demand when they signed him and as WWE usually does, they haven’t held up their end of the bargain and put him in spots to show what he can really do. Ricochet was a champion of a television show. Ricochet had a match that set the wrestling world on fire. Ricochet was a super hot free agent signing for WWE. Ricochet was a super hot NXT wrestler. Winning a title. Some WWE face booking later, he's just a flippy guy. And it's his fault. Wasn't he brought up with Aleister Black as kind of a "We are changing Raw now! Young hot wrestlers will now get a chance!" But no, it's definitely him and not the WWE writing which definitely knows how to get a face over.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 3, 2020 23:17:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I’m sorry, the idea that Ricochet lacks charisma is just way off base in my book, and I watched the guy for years between Lucha Underground and NJPW.
He’s not a great talker, but that really shouldn’t be particularly important. Rey Mysterio was never a great talker; who cares? Accentuate strengths, hide weaknesses, give people controlled chances to work on their weaknesses in the meantime.
I also think we often confuse “can work really athletically” with “wrestles great matches”; one involves just doing moves, the other means a wrestler knows how to tell a story or communicate a character effectively with their in-ring time. Ricochet is more than capable of doing the latter, and his freakish athleticism only adds to the overall package, he’s not an off the rack “flippy guy”.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 3, 2020 23:51:38 GMT -5
So...make him unique. Try different ideas, teach him to cut the promos they want him to, give him a manager. That’s literally their job. I’m not one of the people that say he’s done because it’s wrestling, stranger things have happened, but there have been so many cases of them throwing out people with not much to them and then giving up when there’s zero connection, it’s getting ridiculous. Where’s the company that said “This Batista guy shouldn’t be a Deacon, he should be a beast for a stable” or “Wow, this guy can rap, let him do that on TV”? Because it feels like that company doesn’t exist anymore. It's not that simple. You need natural charisma. I haven't seen that from him. As other people have said, he was in high demand by the time he signed, he had already showed that in other places and, again, if they had an issue with his mike skills, there was a whole system where he could have developed more. Except he was quickly called up, shoved to the side and now, for the 56,892,956th time, we’re blaming the worker for not fitting the system instead of the system for failing the worker. And guess why he was called up? Because there was another 56,892,955 people who the same thing happened to because this company can’t make stars.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 0:01:25 GMT -5
If Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio can do it, why can't Ricochet?
They are destroying him. Wins and losses affect how these guys are perceived. This is why nobody bought Jinder Mahal as champion.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 4, 2020 0:14:32 GMT -5
If Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio can do it, why can't Ricochet? They are destroying him. Wins and losses affect how these guys are perceived. This is why nobody bought Jinder Mahal as champion. It’s grossly harsh, because so much of this perception is greatly weighted towards your losses being more damaging than your wins are helpful. Like, it doesn’t matter how often you win, one bad loss seems to cancel it all out. Just ask Kofi Kingston and his world title reign where he had a 21 match winning streak, but all anyone wants to remember is how he lost it to Brock Lesnar (it’s amazing how often that name pops up in these threads).
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Post by Display Name on Mar 4, 2020 0:57:44 GMT -5
Yeah right. He’ll be IC or US champ again in a month or two.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 1:00:55 GMT -5
If Ricochet just had any real latino in him, he would be tearing the house down with Rey, Andrade, Garza and Humberto in blink of an eye. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 2:07:14 GMT -5
If Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio can do it, why can't Ricochet? They are destroying him. Wins and losses affect how these guys are perceived. This is why nobody bought Jinder Mahal as champion. They may try to tell you that wins and losses don't matter, but "Why should I root for him/her? They're just going to lose" is a real mindset that exists among fans, even casual ones.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,069
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 4, 2020 2:40:23 GMT -5
The problem is that WWE's idea of charisma is being able to talk loudly and sound tough.
They still think charisma is only on the mic. Never mind the fact that Jeff Hardy was the biggest draw in wrestling for a good while in the late oughts and he's far worse on the mic than Ricochet is.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,069
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 4, 2020 2:41:41 GMT -5
If Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio can do it, why can't Ricochet? They are destroying him. Wins and losses affect how these guys are perceived. This is why nobody bought Jinder Mahal as champion. They may try to tell you that wins and losses don't matter, but "Why should I root for him/her? They're just going to lose" is a real mindset that exists among fans, even casual ones. They can tell us wins and losses don't matter until they're blue in the face but, wrestling is a form of entertainment where people live vicariously through others. No one wants to be a loser. Ergo, nobody is going to cheer a loser.
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anglarite
Don Corleone
...enchantment!
Posts: 1,546
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Post by anglarite on Mar 4, 2020 12:53:13 GMT -5
I remember when people were all like he is gonna be such a bigger star in WWE than he ever was in LU and that that character was just holding him back etc etc....boy that seems like so long ago. Well atleast I will always have the handshake of all handshakes ![](https://i.imgur.com/BU5Jyri.gif) Hey, that other guy was also fantastic in LU. I hope wherever he's now, he's being pushed to the moon.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 4, 2020 13:01:40 GMT -5
Indie flippy guys are a dime a dozen because everyone on the indies can do flips, so there's nothing special about Richochet. Which is why Ricochet stood out as special on the scene and was a much sought after signing for WWE. Can't be that WWE puts negative effort into its roster and their presentation, doesn't give most of its roster characters, doesn't let anyone work to their strengths, and of course their interchangeability doesn't come from them being portrayed as interchangeable over the long term. He didn't get over with people yelling about Spider-man during his matches, clearly that's a Ricochet problem.
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Post by realist on Mar 4, 2020 13:34:28 GMT -5
I remember when people were all like he is gonna be such a bigger star in WWE than he ever was in LU and that that character was just holding him back etc etc....boy that seems like so long ago. Well atleast I will always have the handshake of all handshakes ![](https://i.imgur.com/BU5Jyri.gif) Hey, that other guy was also fantastic in LU. I hope wherever he's now, he's being pushed to the moon. I agree, but Konnan is just too old and broken down at this point to be consistently pushed to the moon. However, if current trends continue, he may be able to get one of the main event matches for Wrestlemania this year....
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Mar 4, 2020 13:44:02 GMT -5
If Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio can do it, why can't Ricochet? They are destroying him. Wins and losses affect how these guys are perceived. This is why nobody bought Jinder Mahal as champion. It’s grossly harsh, because so much of this perception is greatly weighted towards your losses being more damaging than your wins are helpful. Like, it doesn’t matter how often you win, one bad loss seems to cancel it all out. Just ask Kofi Kingston and his world title reign where he had a 21 match winning streak, but all anyone wants to remember is how he lost it to Brock Lesnar (it’s amazing how often that name pops up in these threads). People don't talk about this because he lost. They talk about it because he lost instantly, to someone everyone's been sick of for years, and dumped off the main event level forever, and we, as viewers, were not supposed to want him to get the title back and be champion again (or ever). It came across like Vince re-establishing the natural order by putting Kofi back in his place after a few months where the fans went crazy and wanted this loser to be champ. No one talks about the winning streak because everyone (correctly) knew that Brock loss, or something like it, would happen sooner or later. Losses matter too much to fans, because we have figured out that the way losses work, they mean something about the booking. You work hard to tell us that losing is for losers, and that the hierarchy of your roster is representative of something "real," we start to pick up that certain losses really are intended to be symbolically important... they're deliberately meant to tell us who the schmucks are. It's just the fans figuring out how the booking really goes.
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