Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 19, 2020 19:18:59 GMT -5
We live in a post-Jinder Mahal world, there are no other answers. There is an argument that the Jinder push was the first downfall of SD! newfound success,it was gaining ratings and viewship until then. Of course there is other factors but Jinder Mahal was clearly one of the issues.
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Post by Kyle Butler on Mar 19, 2020 19:20:03 GMT -5
Jake coming out strong with two choices for worst champion. Don’t even bother asking about Blackjack. He’s got two of those too...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 19:20:25 GMT -5
We live in a post-Jinder Mahal world, there are no other answers. There is an argument that the Jinder push was the first downfall of SD! newfound success,it was gaining ratings and viewship until then. Of course there is other factors but Jinder Mahal was clearly one of the issues. It'd really dipped before that around the time of the Rumble, probably because Orton is pretty consistently an anti-draw. It did certainly put a bullet in the reputation the show had built up through 2016 though and it's really never recovered from it.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 19, 2020 19:20:30 GMT -5
Jinder, Backlund, Khali, Diesel.
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Mar 19, 2020 19:26:26 GMT -5
I know it's all about opinions but come on, it's Jinder.
They had a complete jobber win the belt and hold it for 6 months, and then after he lost it he went right back to being a jobber, other than a week long US title reign which means very little these days.
There can be no other answer than Jinder.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Mar 19, 2020 19:32:47 GMT -5
We also live in a world where David Arquette and a concussed Vince Russo have been world champions
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 19, 2020 19:43:04 GMT -5
We also live in a world where David Arquette and a concussed Vince Russo have been world champions Well it is WWE champions.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Mar 19, 2020 19:45:59 GMT -5
We also live in a world where David Arquette and a concussed Vince Russo have been world champions Well it is WWE champions. Yeah I know, was just talking about bottom of the barrel world champions in the industry
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Mar 19, 2020 19:51:43 GMT -5
Started my WWE fandom right around when Michaels won the championship, and although I thought he was a douche even a young me recognized he was putting on great matches and looking credible, in some cases with guys considerably larger.
I mean, Sid had to hit him with a camera to end his first title reign.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Mar 19, 2020 19:54:02 GMT -5
If you enjoyed them as champions in real time, don't worry about what Jake thinks. His views on it seem based on business aspects and the perception of smaller wrestlers beating bigger wrestlers. If that doesn't bother you, then don't worry about it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 19:56:00 GMT -5
The problem with Shawn as champion was not his size, but the fact that he was basically a male stripper. The mid-90s wasn't having stuff like that or cartoony gimmicks. They wanted real, gritty characters, which is what eventually happened with the nWo in WCW and then Austin and others in the WWF. Bret was a white meat babyface whose Hitman character did not evolve until 1997 when he turned heel, and Shawn's greatest run (IMO) was also 1997 because he was basically playing himself as a heel (the biggest douchebag in the company).
The only New Generation talent that I think might have worked at top guy was Razor Ramon, but the reality is, no one could have fixed the company in 1993-95.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 19, 2020 20:38:08 GMT -5
I know it's all about opinions but come on, it's Jinder. They had a complete jobber win the belt and hold it for 6 months, and then after he lost it he went right back to being a jobber, other than a week long US title reign which means very little these days. There can be no other answer than Jinder. Pretty much... they kinda threw him too the wolves and did him no favors by making him the champion after being a career jobber... but... he also proved pretty quickly how out of his element hew as at the top.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Mar 19, 2020 20:44:40 GMT -5
I think this has more to do with Jake still being pissed about Bret outing him in his book for faking injuries while champion of his father's territory and losing a bar fight to a fan, and wanting to take any shot he can at him. Notice how he gives him no credit at all while he at least compliments HBK a little bit for being a hard worker.
Don't agree with the size thing. If your marketable (which both were) and believable in that you look like an athlete and look like you could whoop someone in a fight (which both were even though HBK couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag in real life) then it's not that big of a deal. I mean he gives Austin as an example of someone who was m much better choice and he was one of the biggest draws in company history but it wasn't he was some giant or anything either. Not a small man by any means but height wise he was probably only like an inch or two then both Bret and Shawn. When Bret and Austin would face off and go nose to nose they looked almost exactly the same size both in height and weight/mass. Austin was maybe slightly bigger but probably only by an inch and probably no more then 5-10 pounds. So I don't think the size thing was that big of an issue as much as it was just a bad time. As mentioned Nash was champion around that time and he was almost seven feet tall and he did even worse as a draw then both Bret and Shawn.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 20:54:02 GMT -5
Well that’s just dumb.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 21:03:41 GMT -5
We live in a post-Jinder Mahal world, there are no other answers. Somewhere, there's at least one guy who argues that Jinder should never be hindered.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 19, 2020 21:40:35 GMT -5
Bret and Steve were damn near identical in size.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 19, 2020 21:45:53 GMT -5
Looking at the numbers, he's absolutely right. That said, there's a ton of other details he's missing out on in terms of the New Generation and the way it was booked.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 21:56:31 GMT -5
Sigh.
THIS discussion again.
Whoever is WWE Champion is irrelevant because the title is a prop to further storylines.
When ratings were low in the mid 90s, it wasn't anything to do with Bret or Shawn. It was the company.
When they changed with the times and rebranded it to the Attitude Era, they started raking in the cash.
That was the difference maker. Not "oh they changed the WWE Champion..."
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Mar 20, 2020 0:04:24 GMT -5
I know it's all about opinions but come on, it's Jinder. They had a complete jobber win the belt and hold it for 6 months, and then after he lost it he went right back to being a jobber, other than a week long US title reign which means very little these days. There can be no other answer than Jinder. Pretty much... they kinda threw him too the wolves and did him no favors by making him the champion after being a career jobber... but... he also proved pretty quickly how out of his element he was at the top. If it were 1986 Jinder would have fallen victim to the DDT then Damien slithering over his carcass.
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Post by PTBartman on Mar 20, 2020 0:13:33 GMT -5
Started my WWE fandom right around when Michaels won the championship, and although I thought he was a douche even a young me recognized he was putting on great matches and looking credible, in some cases with guys considerably larger. I mean, Sid had to hit him with a camera to end his first title reign. His match with Diesel is still one of my favorite matches. The fake leg spot may be my favorite spot ever.
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