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Post by toodarkmark on May 26, 2020 14:18:28 GMT -5
I see a lot of this overlap of anti-AEW and anti-Meltzer fandom on the internet. Usually "oh if WWE did it, Meltzer would...." quotes, and they seem to say that if any online reviewer enjoys AEW, they are being paid by Tony Khan. It seems like anytime a Meltzer story isnt 100% right, a huge part of these fans call Meltzer a liar and a cancer. Alvarez seems to be swept up in AntiAEWMeltzer mania.
When did the anti-Meltzer crowd start? The anti "whatever is the #2 company to WWE" crowd has existed since I started going on Bulletin Boards in 1990, and their anger is pretty similar through the ages. But the anti-Meltzer crowd is newer. Is it tied to AEW hate? Did it happen before? I remember people disliking him, but in the last year it's insane.
Edit: If this a hot button topic, please feel free to close. Not interested in a flame war, just timelines.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 26, 2020 14:38:16 GMT -5
When they started hearing more and more "respected vets" with podcasts proclaiming that anyone who listens to/reads Meltzer must be an idiot. All guys like Bruce Prichard do is bury the guy. So you're getting a lot of the current generation being discouraged from paying attention to Meltzer. Despite the fact that he's one of the best historians to learn from. Yeah I think the general bashing of Meltzer is related to Prichard’s podcast and others like it. The AEW-related bashing is probably just based on his relationships with those in charge there.
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Post by BRAINFADE on May 26, 2020 15:06:27 GMT -5
I think the funny thing is that the anti- Meltzer people spend way more time talking about him than the people who like and respect him do.
But yeah, I think a lot of it stems from con-men like Prichard and Bischoff burying him.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 26, 2020 15:07:55 GMT -5
I think at times Meltzer also doesnt articulate his thoughts the best so he sometimes comes off as insensitive. But yeah you have a lot of current podcasts ripping him and a lot of wrestlers as well
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rocket
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,801
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Post by rocket on May 26, 2020 15:20:15 GMT -5
I couldn't listen to Prichard anymore because it seemed like the whole podcast became nothing but Meltzer bashing. But a lot of people still listen, so I see an overlap there.
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Post by An Dog On An Skateboard on May 26, 2020 15:31:16 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure I have a pretty good idea of which online communities you're referring to.
Anti-smark feeling is something that's lingered for well over a decade, but I've only really seen the really nasty and virulent shitting on insider journalists - particularly Meltzer - by fans in the past year or two, although I think it's existed to an extent pretty much as long as the self-hating smart fan.
To a large extent I think a lot of it is contrarianism. They think that smart fans - the kinds of people who read the Observer - are nerds who are hated by wrestlers, and no one wants to be a nerd or held in low esteem by their heroes. So they adopt this hardline stance against Meltzer and any wrestling that isn't WWE in the hope that they'll be seen as real fans and not like smarks, or somehow breaking away from the "hivemind".
I also wonder if, in the case of the ardent opposition to AEW, we're seeing the emergence of a generation of internet wrestling fans who don't remember when there was wrestling other than WWE in the western mainstream. Again, it's been around for years - I remember TNA coming in for a lot of undue criticism from WWE fans who warned that they were lucky McMahon didn't just buy them, because he could you know - but I've seen it become particularly nasty.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,524
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Post by FinalGwen on May 26, 2020 15:51:53 GMT -5
When did it start? "Observe this, brother!"
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Post by Nickybojelais on May 26, 2020 16:02:00 GMT -5
Considering that the hate is primarily whipped up by the likes of Prichard, Bischoff and Russo, I find it virtually impossible to be Anti-Meltzer.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 26, 2020 16:19:21 GMT -5
Combination of things. Conrad has made a living off of giving platforms to the anti-Meltzer guys to Meltzer himself often coming off like he has the awareness of a doorknob,. combined with too many inside the business using what he seems as a 5 or 6 star match as a replacement for ring psychology.
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Post by toodarkmark on May 26, 2020 16:20:26 GMT -5
I was unaware of the Prichard/Bischoff bashing of him. Amazing that entire generations of people are swayed by Bruce Prichard.
I think the generation of fans without knowledge of wrestling outside of WWE is a good point. The anti AEW crowd is a lot easier to figure out, but the anti-Meltzer stuff feels like it exploded in the last two years. Ive heard criticism of him since 1990, but the last two years have become toxic.
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 3,002
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Post by Venti on May 26, 2020 16:22:58 GMT -5
I like Dave, and I love hearing him talk about wrestling history(his appearances on Lapsed Fan's 30 years of Wrestlemania are some of my favorites)
Sometimes he kinda irks me when he does things like suddenly going beyond five stars after like 30 years of five stars being the maximum.
I mean, maybe it's just because I legit can't stand Kenny Omega so I'm biased, but there is no way Okada-Omega was as good as Austin vs Hart or the first Hell in a Cell. I get it's subjective, so that's just my opinion.
And then there's been times where he's used his own star ratings as an argument on Twitter which kinda rubs me the wrong way.
But at the end of the day, I think the people who strongly dislike him probably either are influenced by other people, or it's just because Dave is an easy guy to misunderstand.
The dude is just so obsessed and hyper-focused on wrestling, that I feel like he loses sight on other things, and that is where things like the Peyton Royce comments come from. Like I feel like he doesn't realizes what he's saying sometimes cause he's so caught up in the wrestling talk, if that makes sense.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,751
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Post by fw91 on May 26, 2020 16:37:03 GMT -5
Probably has to do with his star rating system. Tokyo Dome jokes have existed for a while. There's a clear bias
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Post by Mister Pigwell on May 26, 2020 16:43:02 GMT -5
Probably has to do with his star rating system. Tokyo Dome jokes have existed for a while. There's a clear bias But the star ratings are just him giving his opinion as a fan, of course there's "bias", they're an expression of his tastes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 16:43:08 GMT -5
Probably has to do with his star rating system. Tokyo Dome jokes have existed for a while. There's a clear bias Tokyo Dome jokes don't make you anti Meltzer though. I like the guy and I think jokes like "it would have been six stars in the Tokyo Dome" are funny.
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Post by toodarkmark on May 26, 2020 16:51:53 GMT -5
Probably has to do with his star rating system. Tokyo Dome jokes have existed for a while. There's a clear bias But the star ratings are just him giving his opinion as a fan, of course there's "bias", they're an expression of his tastes. Yeah this one bugs me. It also comes from a lot of people who have never watched a match from the Tokyo Dome. New Japan has had some incredible matches. AEW has had some incredible matches. Its not bias, its recognition. But thats a bigger issue than Meltzer. People always need to cheapen other people's experience if they themselves have a bias against it. I've been guilty of that in the past, and try to avoid it now.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 28,702
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Post by 4real on May 26, 2020 17:07:17 GMT -5
As someone who isn’t a Meltzer fan it’s because he is seen as the end all be all voice and opinion when it comes to wrestling despite never working in the wrestling business. Not that he shouldn’t be allowed his opinion but I rather value that of respected vets than him.
Also he is unlistenable to listen to and rude and condescending when asked a question or opinion he doesn’t agree with.
But also at the same time with the whole 5 stars in the Tokyo dome thing and his continuous strange behaviour and obsession with wrestling he is quite fun to make fun of. So there’s that.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,751
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Post by fw91 on May 26, 2020 17:07:30 GMT -5
Probably has to do with his star rating system. Tokyo Dome jokes have existed for a while. There's a clear bias But the star ratings are just him giving his opinion as a fan, of course there's "bias", they're an expression of his tastes. I get that, but like someone said there were plenty of matches during fond WWE times that he "snubbed"
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Post by darbus alan on May 26, 2020 17:13:58 GMT -5
There's no such thing as an objective opinion. Reviews are inherently subjective and anyone who tells you that they're unbiased when reviewing something is lying.
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Post by flowercity on May 26, 2020 17:21:28 GMT -5
But the star ratings are just him giving his opinion as a fan, of course there's "bias", they're an expression of his tastes. I get that, but like someone said there were plenty of matches during fond WWE times that he "snubbed" To who? Meltzer himself has said that if you’re within a half star of his rating you basically agree. Like everyone keeps repeating here, it’s all his own opinion. He prefers the japanese style, his ratings reflect that. It is hard to find a match that Meltzer is so far against consensus opinion on. Though it may exist! If anyone has examples I’d love to know.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on May 26, 2020 17:22:35 GMT -5
Considering that the hate is primarily whipped up by the likes of Prichard, Bischoff and Russo, I find it virtually impossible to be Anti-Meltzer. Considering the list who hate Dave are guys that have done more bad than good in wrestling, really says it all.
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