AEW Women's Division Discussion

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 21:34:31 GMT -5 Celgress said:

Jul 22, 2021 17:35:18 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

You can say it's been bad but she's both won a world title and has one of the highest squash rates of any wrestler on the roster. She has always been put over as a dominant force and even beat Baker this year.

She just simply needs to get away from the title scene and have a lower card feud like she did with Shanna.

Dude, your persistent defense of AEW no matter the criticism (seemingly valid or seemingly invalid) is admirable in a way. You reminded me of some of my favorite anime/manga heroes Goku, Usagi, and Izuku. You never give up no matter how hopeless the cause. Shine on you crazy diamond.

I don't defend everything AEW. I have clearly spoken my criticisms even in this thread about the women's division. I'd appreciate it if I wasn't labeled this. I get that I defend things from a logical viewpoint sometimes or try and see what could be a positive... but to say all I do is defend them it sounds extremely condescending and like I'm trying to defend a lost cause, when I don't think the women's division is that at all. Maybe that makes me the standout in the thread? But to do so does not mean I just recklessly defend everything the company does.

So please... even if you meant well with this post, please keep this in mind.

[markymark]

Im all for Serena to fully turn heel and feud with Tay, its something that should be saved at least for Rampage.

The Women division should be what the cruiserweight division was in WCW in 1996-1998, wasnt that what Kenny said at the start of AEW?

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Jul 23, 2021 10:27:50 GMT -5 markymark said:

The Women division should be what the cruiserweight division was in WCW in 1996-1998, wasnt that what Kenny said at the start of AEW?

Can't help but feel like living up to that is part of the problem.

Did the crusierweight division ever main event? How much promo time did its stars get?

And how much was there if there wasn't match quality? And how much did it depend on matches being run back again (something Khan clearly doesn't like doing)?

Some of these are legitimate questions from someone who wasn't there for the WCW cruiserweight division, but from its reputation, I can see how the AEW women's division resembles it on paper in a way that isn't a good thing.

[The Captain]

There is a certain romanticism about WCW's Cruiserweight Division that I think gets affected by rose-tinted glasses, from both fans and wrestlers. There were highlights and you had some really fun acts in the division. But a lot of the times they also just acted as filler for the three hour Nitros without any real storyline progression or stakes involved.

Granted, it was miles ahead of what WWF did with its Cruiserweight/Light Heavyweight Division where they barely acknowledged it existed. And it was one of the things that set apart WCW's identity from the Company Up North. But I think its importance gets overstated by a lot of people. I think a better example of use of a lighter weight division was TNA's X Division in its first few years. There were times where the X Division Championship felt like it was more the main belt of TNA than even the NWA/TNA World Heavyweight Championship. Though this usually coincided with when Jeff Jarrett was on one of his poor man's Triple H runs with the latter, so maybe it had more to do with that.

[HMARK Center]

Jul 23, 2021 10:27:50 GMT -5 markymark said:

Im all for Serena to fully turn heel and feud with Tay, its something that should be saved at least for Rampage.

The Women division should be what the cruiserweight division was in WCW in 1996-1998, wasnt that what Kenny said at the start of AEW?

As I recall Kenny said that specifically about joshi wrestlers; he wanted to get mainstream American audiences exposed more to Japanese women's wrestling, in general, but also to serve as a fun way to offer a style that most other US-based companies don't have as much access to.

Then, well, the pandemic decided to have a word on that...thank God that's starting to get back on track.

[Psicofreak667]

WCW's Cruiserweight Division actually had some of the same problems as AEW's Woman's Division, albeit not to the same extent. You had Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko and Rey Misterio Jr. as the cornerstones of the division. Then you had Kidman, Ultimo Dragon, Juventud Guerrera and Disco Inferno as the next level down, and Psychosis as that guy in the uncomfortable spot where he was booked above the jobbers but only to give the bigger names a "meaningful" win when needed. Then what did any of the others do? Since it is bad to doubt El Dandy, here's what he did on Nitro in 1998.

*Loses to Ultimo Dragon in late January in 2 minutes.
*Two weeks later loses to Juventud Guerrera (no time given)
*Seven weeks later, loses to Juventud Guerrera (no time given).
*The next week, he, Psychosis and La Parka beat Magnum Tokyo, Judo Suwa and Shiima Nobunaga. 4 minutes. Psychosis got the pin.
*Seven weeks later, loses to Chris Jericho in 1 minute
*Twenty one weeks later, is on the winning side of a 4 vs 4 lucha tag, 6 minutes.

And that kind of booking is repeating itself in AEW's Woman's Division, only more so, since they get a lot less time - it's really just Brit, her challenger du jour, and Jade, with other woman like Bunny, Stat and Anna managing to make cameos with their male stablemates. If we're super lucky, two women who are neither one the champion get to fight in a very short contendership match.

[Hypnosis]

Jul 23, 2021 10:27:50 GMT -5 markymark said:

Im all for Serena to fully turn heel and feud with Tay, its something that should be saved at least for Rampage.

The Women division should be what the cruiserweight division was in WCW in 1996-1998, wasnt that what Kenny said at the start of AEW?

"Ice Queen" Deeb has potential.

Jul 23, 2021 15:54:05 GMT -5 Psicofreak667 said:

WCW's Cruiserweight Division actually had some of the same problems as AEW's Woman's Division, albeit not to the same extent. You had Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko and Rey Misterio Jr. as the cornerstones of the division. Then you had Kidman, Ultimo Dragon, Juventud Guerrera and Disco Inferno as the next level down, and Psychosis as that guy in the uncomfortable spot where he was booked above the jobbers but only to give the bigger names a "meaningful" win when needed. Then what did any of the others do? Since it is bad to doubt El Dandy, here's what he did on Nitro in 1998.



*Loses to Ultimo Dragon in late January in 2 minutes.

*Two weeks later loses to Juventud Guerrera (no time given)

*Seven weeks later, loses to Juventud Guerrera (no time given).

*The next week, he, Psychosis and La Parka beat Magnum Tokyo, Judo Suwa and Shiima Nobunaga. 4 minutes. Psychosis got the pin.

*Seven weeks later, loses to Chris Jericho in 1 minute

*Twenty one weeks later, is on the winning side of a 4 vs 4 lucha tag, 6 minutes.



And that kind of booking is repeating itself in AEW's Woman's Division, only more so, since they get a lot less time - it's really just Brit, her challenger du jour, and Jade, with other woman like Bunny, Stat and Anna managing to make cameos with their male stablemates. If we're super lucky, two women who are neither one the champion get to fight in a very short contendership match.

Diamante leading the new LWO?

[markymark]

It was during the Death Valley driver drop spot that Britt broke her wrist according to Meltzer.

[Deleted]

Britt should probably start wrestling packed in bubble wrap at this point.

[smokinvokoun86]

If she’s not taking time off, then hopefully it’s not that serious and she can wrestle with it. Hell, give her the old Bob Orton gimmick with the cast and keep it on the rest of the year way past the point of her being healed. That’s definitely something her character would do. Lol

[The Captain]

If Chelsea Green can wrestle with a broken arm that needed surgery two months ago, Britt can probably handle a broken wrist.

[sunnytaker]

hmm so nyla has tied the score at 2 each with shida. hikaru broke a nose and was part of the leg break, now nyla has added a wrist to her part in the leg break. wonder if they have a backstage bet as to who can get to 5 broken bones on britt first.

[markymark]

Kenny starts talking about this around the 36:00 minute mark of today's WOR about the Women Division.

"I think a variation in content is important. The content we're right now lacking in is our women's division. I would love to see Rampage be more of a home to women's wrestling. I want people to see, appreciate and enjoy some of the talent we have to offer and I hope that we can get out and show some of these matches that maybe aren't seen by enough people. We've got a lot of great talent on Dark and people maybe don't want to watch our YouTube channel and want to watch Dynamite or our TV product and I get that. I think the extra hour of Rampage, I feel that rather than give them more Chris Jericho, more Kenny Omega, more MJF, I'd rather give them more of the extremely talented individuals that you maybe can't see that week. Honestly for me, that's just me speaking on my own personal feelings, I feel that we have a lot of very gifted female wrestlers that have been working really hard, fighting for a spot, maybe it's time for them to get some more and I think that would count as a variation in content, more women's wrestling."

www.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-radio/wor-interview-aews-kenny-omega-347956

Feels like Dynamite is going to be Where the Big Boys Play. 

[EP 54 is banned from Collision]

I think Nyla needs a face turn. She's funny as hell, and I think she'd be a little more engaged if she was allowed to show more of her natural personality. It's a bit like Big Show always seemed to be more engaged when he was face.

[pippen94]

Jul 24, 2021 6:55:53 GMT -5 markymark said:

Kenny starts talking about this around the 36:00 minute mark of today's WOR about the Women Division.

"I think a variation in content is important. The content we're right now lacking in is our women's division. I would love to see Rampage be more of a home to women's wrestling. I want people to see, appreciate and enjoy some of the talent we have to offer and I hope that we can get out and show some of these matches that maybe aren't seen by enough people. We've got a lot of great talent on Dark and people maybe don't want to watch our YouTube channel and want to watch Dynamite or our TV product and I get that. I think the extra hour of Rampage, I feel that rather than give them more Chris Jericho, more Kenny Omega, more MJF, I'd rather give them more of the extremely talented individuals that you maybe can't see that week. Honestly for me, that's just me speaking on my own personal feelings, I feel that we have a lot of very gifted female wrestlers that have been working really hard, fighting for a spot, maybe it's time for them to get some more and I think that would count as a variation in content, more women's wrestling."

www.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-radio/wor-interview-aews-kenny-omega-347956

Feels like Dynamite is going to be Where the Big Boys Play. 

I see women getting one match on each show but that's better than current

[pippen94]

Jul 23, 2021 13:58:55 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Jul 23, 2021 10:27:50 GMT -5 markymark said:

Im all for Serena to fully turn heel and feud with Tay, its something that should be saved at least for Rampage.

The Women division should be what the cruiserweight division was in WCW in 1996-1998, wasnt that what Kenny said at the start of AEW?

As I recall Kenny said that specifically about joshi wrestlers; he wanted to get mainstream American audiences exposed more to Japanese women's wrestling, in general, but also to serve as a fun way to offer a style that most other US-based companies don't have as much access to.

Then, well, the pandemic decided to have a word on that...thank God that's starting to get back on track.

Original idea for division didn't work & is better placed being storyline driven than being built around joshi's as point of difference. If ppl want to say that's bad faith, whatever. Britt is among biggest stars in the company & talent on dark both signed & enhancement shows division should have never been seen as a novelty

[Feargus McReddit]

Jul 24, 2021 7:39:36 GMT -5 pippen94 said:

Jul 23, 2021 13:58:55 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

As I recall Kenny said that specifically about joshi wrestlers; he wanted to get mainstream American audiences exposed more to Japanese women's wrestling, in general, but also to serve as a fun way to offer a style that most other US-based companies don't have as much access to.

Then, well, the pandemic decided to have a word on that...thank God that's starting to get back on track.

Original idea for division didn't work & is better placed being storyline driven than being built around joshi's as point of difference. If ppl want to say that's bad faith, whatever. Britt is among biggest stars in the company & talent on dark both signed & enhancement shows division should have never been seen as a novelty

Nobody was saying anything about bad faith, it was more you trying to say that your opinion is the opinion of everyone else, which it wasn't.

Like, it's hard to go through with a plan when you didn't have the same access to talent you once did. And it's also harder to train talent when many weren't quite ready for TV and were going to use the more experienced joshi to do that.

[pippen94]

Jul 24, 2021 7:44:46 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

Jul 24, 2021 7:39:36 GMT -5 pippen94 said:

Original idea for division didn't work & is better placed being storyline driven than being built around joshi's as point of difference. If ppl want to say that's bad faith, whatever. Britt is among biggest stars in the company & talent on dark both signed & enhancement shows division should have never been seen as a novelty

Nobody was saying anything about bad faith, it was more you trying to say that your opinion is the opinion of everyone else, which it wasn't.

Like, it's hard to go through with a plan when you didn't have the same access to talent you once did. And it's also harder to train talent when many weren't quite ready for TV and were going to use the more experienced joshi to do that.

It was a condescending approach anyway - so much talent granted some still green. Envisioning division as x division or wcw's lucha was wrong

[polarbearpete]

Jul 24, 2021 6:55:53 GMT -5 markymark said:

Kenny starts talking about this around the 36:00 minute mark of today's WOR about the Women Division.

"I think a variation in content is important. The content we're right now lacking in is our women's division. I would love to see Rampage be more of a home to women's wrestling. I want people to see, appreciate and enjoy some of the talent we have to offer and I hope that we can get out and show some of these matches that maybe aren't seen by enough people. We've got a lot of great talent on Dark and people maybe don't want to watch our YouTube channel and want to watch Dynamite or our TV product and I get that. I think the extra hour of Rampage, I feel that rather than give them more Chris Jericho, more Kenny Omega, more MJF, I'd rather give them more of the extremely talented individuals that you maybe can't see that week. Honestly for me, that's just me speaking on my own personal feelings, I feel that we have a lot of very gifted female wrestlers that have been working really hard, fighting for a spot, maybe it's time for them to get some more and I think that would count as a variation in content, more women's wrestling."

www.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-radio/wor-interview-aews-kenny-omega-347956

Feels like Dynamite is going to be Where the Big Boys Play. 

I’d be shocked if the women get more than one match on Rampage per week. They only get one on a 2-hour Dynamite. I can’t imagine a new one-hour show is going to now feature more women’s wrestling. The hope for me is that they can maybe can give the women two matches or one match plus an in-ring promo segment on Dynamite plus one women’s match on Rampage each week.

[Feargus McReddit]

Jul 24, 2021 7:51:36 GMT -5 pippen94 said:

Jul 24, 2021 7:44:46 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

Nobody was saying anything about bad faith, it was more you trying to say that your opinion is the opinion of everyone else, which it wasn't.

Like, it's hard to go through with a plan when you didn't have the same access to talent you once did. And it's also harder to train talent when many weren't quite ready for TV and were going to use the more experienced joshi to do that.

It was a condescending approach anyway - so much talent granted some still green. Envisioning division as x division or wcw's lucha was wrong

Like, the approach they ended up having to do or the approach you mentioned? Because the only way some talent was going to better without the experience of some was to just wrestle. And that didn't change until Deeb and Conti were cut and Rosa and the NWA partnership were drafted in.