AEW Women's Division Discussion

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 14:17:12 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Jul 22, 2021 14:08:37 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Time to keep Nyla away from the title for awhile... crowd was into the match but I also dont think she is nearly as over or as credible as a challenger as she has been presented recently

My sense from crowd reactions is that Nyla Rose and Diamante have suffered big time from being heels with nothing of consequence to do and no victories worth talking about. They're heels, so they generally aren't doing anything cool or likable; but they're also not actually that despicable, so there's not a lot of reason to boo them. Sure, Nyla is standing next to Vickie the heat magnet, but that stops mattering once the match starts and Vickie isn't a factor. Neither of them ever does anything truly worth hating, so what's there to react to?

Britt Baker has turned around from heel to face, and I think that part of that was her heel work having actual substance to it. Her heeldom was/is rooted in being upper class, condescending, and self-absorbed...y'know, character traits. Nyla Rose pre-Vickie was actually quite lovable as this agent of pure chaos and rage, and I can't help but wonder if quashing the lovability has left her with nothing.

Baker's still a heel though. She was kinda just the defacto face due to the Nyla feud. If she's gonna feud with Rosa again I don't see Baker being a face. Same goes for others like Statlander or Conti. 

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 14:30:23 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Jul 22, 2021 11:30:35 GMT -5 Harry The Arrow was Wrong! said:

I'm really not sure how to feel at this point about the division because it's so disappointing but I feel it's pointless for me to keep complaining.

Like Hikaru Shida did her damndest as champion to put on excellent performances during the pandemic in front of no one despite never really being pushed. Her reward? Finally wrestling in front of people, losing the belt and gets taken off tv for 2 months and counting. She hasn't even had a 30 second promo on tv. Like we can somehow fit in QT and his jobbers every week but the women? Nope.

That genuinely bothered me the most about Shida's reign. I knew where and how it was gonna end, but I felt like they did her so dirty.

The AEW Women's Division was firmly designed to be Britt's World and everyone else was just living in it. That was and still is my main problem with it. I know after the joshi experiment went bust due to the pandemic they were stuck with mostly unprepared talent, but putting all your eggs in one basket made everyone else feel small, especially the champ.

But what do I know? I just complain.

I get that people like to dunk on Baker being a focus but AEW has not put all their eggs in one basket. They reasonably have a lot of women over in the division including the likes of

- Conti
- Deeb
- Statlander 
- Bunny
- Rosa 
- Hirsch
- Velvet 
- Swole 
- Abadon
- King
- Riho
- Shida
- Yuka

The issue isn't that it's "Baker's world". The issue has always been time management and how they feature the girls on the show. On Elevation and DARK all these women are getting pops that are only getting louder. It's about using them and getting them time and their potential being realized. 

[polarbearpete]

Jul 22, 2021 13:53:19 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jul 22, 2021 13:30:01 GMT -5 Hypnosis said:

I think in order for a change to happen, it's going to take a catchy Twitter hashtag and most of the women speaking out to Tony Khan and TNT about their booking treatment, if 2015 was any indication regarding WWE.

Nah we're not about to compare AEW's Women's Division to WWE's Stopwatch Diva Era

It has its issues but the roster depth and overall working ability of the division is really good. The issue has been time management overall and they seem to be very aware of it.

The issue with the Give the Divas a Chance movement was also one of time management. People weren’t mad that they didn’t have enough talent, they were upset at how little TV and match time they were given on weekly TV.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 14:58:24 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 22, 2021 13:53:19 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Nah we're not about to compare AEW's Women's Division to WWE's Stopwatch Diva Era

It has its issues but the roster depth and overall working ability of the division is really good. The issue has been time management overall and they seem to be very aware of it.

The issue with the Give the Divas a Chance movement was also one of time management. People weren’t mad that they didn’t have enough talent, they were upset at how little TV and match time they were given on weekly TV.

With the Diva Era though it was also talent. Like the whole big portion of the Revolution was literally "Look we have talented women now!" when they brought The Horsewomen into the fold

With AEW yes the issue is time but they already have the talent. Give them some promos even if it's to build to Elevation/DARK matches, it lets the people know what they're doing.

Rampage needs to have women's matches and promos on it. Obviously it's gonna have mens matches and focus too but AEW can do a lot with an hour.

[The Captain]

Rampage should help, but I think it'd help even more if you started seeing Dark and Elevation start to feature more angles. Not only does that help the less experienced talent hone their craft outside the ring, but it also gives people more incentive to watch Dark and Elevation if there is storyline progression that can build into Dynamite, Rampage, or PPV's. Both can be fun watches, but matches for the sake of matches isn't appealing to everyone. And right now, both shows are the bulk of the women's product.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 14:13:04 GMT -5 Harry The Arrow was Wrong! said:

Jul 22, 2021 12:10:13 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

I get it... but QT and The Factory have literally gotten one combined minute of screen time the last two weeks. I get you could argue that could have gone towards building something for a girl but the question would be what? They need to start setting up storylines to progress things. We're seeing it on DARK but what I'm really hoping is we starts seeing it on Rampage too. THEN at the very least you could have girls cut Dynamite promos to lead into Rampage matches and vice versa. 

And I know people are apprehensive to the idea of Rampage changing anything but at this point if a whole extra hour of wrestling can't help the girls then AEW's gonna be under some serious pressure.

I mean that's 1 minute more than the majority of women. And that's probably setting some feud for him in the future. That's way more than someone like Shida gets. Like people can say, oh Shida is on Dark but would someone like Jon Moxley or Kenny Omega or any other top champion be relegated to just working youtube matches after a lengthy title reign?

I'm sorry but the fact Serena Deeb and Riho are not on TV but QT Marshall is is kinda ridiculous.

We'll see what happens come Rampage but I'm not exactly confident much will change

Rampage gives them an entire other hour. AEW has proven they can fit literally four to five matches in an hour if they really wanted to. If they can't fit women's matches/promos/development into that then they shouldn't have a division period.

As for QT and speaking of Rampage. The plan seems to be if I'm reading the tea leaves right for him to get schooled by Paul Wight. Might be something they advertise for the first live Rampage show to really sell it, which wouldn't be the worst idea.

Ideally Rampage is gonna help get some lower end matches onto that show so you could realistically make room for other talent including the women. That's my hope. I get why others don't have that hope, but AEW has not shown me to be the company just... ok when people are upset with something.

[Celgress]

Jul 22, 2021 15:04:12 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Rampage should help, but I think it'd help even more if you started seeing Dark and Elevation start to feature more angles. Not only does that help the less experienced talent hone their craft outside the ring, but it also gives people more incentive to watch Dark and Elevation if there is storyline progression that can build into Dynamite, Rampage, or PPV's. Both can be fun watches, but matches for the sake of matches isn't appealing to everyone. And right now, both shows are the bulk of the women's product.

I could not agree with you more. Unless it is something I'm very interested in I skip most Dark & Elevation matches only watching their finish. Having continuous matches for the sake of having matches is both boring for the audience and pointless for the talent.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 15:04:12 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Rampage should help, but I think it'd help even more if you started seeing Dark and Elevation start to feature more angles. Not only does that help the less experienced talent hone their craft outside the ring, but it also gives people more incentive to watch Dark and Elevation if there is storyline progression that can build into Dynamite, Rampage, or PPV's. Both can be fun watches, but matches for the sake of matches isn't appealing to everyone. And right now, both shows are the bulk of the women's product.

We are starting to see it a bit now. I think they were genuinely waiting for crowds to come back. But Acclaimed/Blondes has been built around Julia Hart so far. Swole/Diamante has developed into a nice little feud. Janela/Kiss seems to be an ongoing thing.

We still got plenty of enhancement matches in there but they do seem to be taking the time out to start giving wrestlers some promo time and storyline time which I definitely welcome for the future as well. Whenever DARK gets its new Studio location I hope we continue to see more storylines and stuff play out there too. 

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 15:07:48 GMT -5 Celgress said:

Jul 22, 2021 15:04:12 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Rampage should help, but I think it'd help even more if you started seeing Dark and Elevation start to feature more angles. Not only does that help the less experienced talent hone their craft outside the ring, but it also gives people more incentive to watch Dark and Elevation if there is storyline progression that can build into Dynamite, Rampage, or PPV's. Both can be fun watches, but matches for the sake of matches isn't appealing to everyone. And right now, both shows are the bulk of the women's product.

I could not agree with you more. Unless it is something I'm very interested in I skip most Dark & Elevation matches only watching their finish. Having continuous matches for the sake of having matches is both boring for the audience and pointless for the talent.

It's not boring for the audience who pops when their favorites have a match. Which seems to have been the case for a lot of the crowd Elevation and DARK matches so far

And it's not pointless for the talent because I literally cannot overstate this enough: DARK allows them time and reps. Even if it's an enhancement match it keeps them stretched out and gives them ring time along with other Indie bookings.

The crowd doesn't have to stay but I'd say when you're getting all those matches for the price of one ticket there is literally nothing to be upset about.

[polarbearpete]

Jul 22, 2021 15:02:00 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jul 22, 2021 14:58:24 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

The issue with the Give the Divas a Chance movement was also one of time management. People weren’t mad that they didn’t have enough talent, they were upset at how little TV and match time they were given on weekly TV.

With the Diva Era though it was also talent. Like the whole big portion of the Revolution was literally "Look we have talented women now!" when they brought The Horsewomen into the fold

With AEW yes the issue is time but they already have the talent. Give them some promos even if it's to build to Elevation/DARK matches, it lets the people know what they're doing.

Rampage needs to have women's matches and promos on it. Obviously it's gonna have mens matches and focus too but AEW can do a lot with an hour.

The Divas division did have less talent then than the AEW division now, I’m not disagreeing with that. I’m saying the Give the Divas a Chance hashtag/movement was based only on fans being upset at the time and focus they were being given on TV, similar to some of the sentiments in this thread.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 15:19:04 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 22, 2021 15:02:00 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

With the Diva Era though it was also talent. Like the whole big portion of the Revolution was literally "Look we have talented women now!" when they brought The Horsewomen into the fold

With AEW yes the issue is time but they already have the talent. Give them some promos even if it's to build to Elevation/DARK matches, it lets the people know what they're doing.

Rampage needs to have women's matches and promos on it. Obviously it's gonna have mens matches and focus too but AEW can do a lot with an hour.

The Divas division did have less talent then than the AEW division now, I’m not disagreeing with that. I’m saying the Give the Divas a Chance hashtag/movement was based only on fans being upset at the time and focus they were being given on TV, similar to some of the sentiments in this thread.

I will say, if Rampage doesn't help feature more girls and maybe free up some Dynamite time for some girls to get more time? I won't be shocked if a hashtag happens.

But I really do trust AEW to fix things more so than others. Hopefully they can not let me down on that front.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

I genuinely can't think of arguments that are bad faith enough to parody the anti-Yuka/joshi sentiment in here sometimes.

Anyway, I was pretty disappointed with the Britt/Nyla match - felt pretty sloppy, a bit weirdly laid out, and somebody done f***ed up during that early phantom 3-count, and poor ol' Paul got super gunshy on whether Nyla was actually submitting at the end because of it in the end.

I love both of these talents immensely, and it wasn't a bad match, but the women's division has produced much better ones before.

[markymark]

Once again idk why it feels like Nyla stopped giving a crap and didnt want to put over Britt, in a way I would understand considering how her booking has been really bad.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Jul 22, 2021 17:16:12 GMT -5 markymark said:

Once again idk why it feels like Nyla stopped giving a crap and didnt want to put over Britt, in a way I would understand considering how her booking has been really bad.

She has seemed to be kinda mailing it in a bit her last couple of matches.

[chrom]

Jul 22, 2021 17:16:12 GMT -5 markymark said:

Once again idk why it feels like Nyla stopped giving a crap and didnt want to put over Britt, in a way I would understand considering how her booking has been really bad.

Her contract maybe up and she maybe leaving

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 17:16:12 GMT -5 markymark said:

Once again idk why it feels like Nyla stopped giving a crap and didnt want to put over Britt, in a way I would understand considering how her booking has been really bad.

You can say it's been bad but she's both won a world title and has one of the highest squash rates of any wrestler on the roster. She has always been put over as a dominant force and even beat Baker this year.

She just simply needs to get away from the title scene and have a lower card feud like she did with Shanna.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Jul 22, 2021 17:35:18 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jul 22, 2021 17:16:12 GMT -5 markymark said:

Once again idk why it feels like Nyla stopped giving a crap and didnt want to put over Britt, in a way I would understand considering how her booking has been really bad.

You can say it's been bad but she's both won a world title and has one of the highest squash rates of any wrestler on the roster. She has always been put over as a dominant force and even beat Baker this year.

She just simply needs to get away from the title scene and have a lower card feud like she did with Shanna.

Nyla's squash booking doesn't even let her do anything interesting in the ring. I always sigh at her Dark and Elevation matches, because, like...I know there won't be anything to see, Nyla's just going to win in a minute. Given what she's capable of with the right opponent, Nyla's skills have been thoroughly wasted through a lack of substance.

Like...cjb, you're sounding like the people defending Asuka's booking at this point. Yeah, Nyla's a former champ who wins and gets title shots, but she's also directionless and not doing anything memorable or interesting, and there's not even enough going on to speculate on how she could fit into it. What's next for her? A feud with Kris Statlander where she loses en route to Statlander getting a title shot? Beating Leyla Hirsch or Big Swole two or three more times? Or just go back to those boring one-minute squash matches? The weaknesses in the rest of the women's booking are bad for her, too.

About the only worthwhile thing that Nyla could do right now is beat Shida, but while the win would be a meaningful accomplishment for her, the match is played out thanks to getting two PPV slots with nothing at all in between for Nyla.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jul 22, 2021 17:45:10 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Jul 22, 2021 17:35:18 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

You can say it's been bad but she's both won a world title and has one of the highest squash rates of any wrestler on the roster. She has always been put over as a dominant force and even beat Baker this year.

She just simply needs to get away from the title scene and have a lower card feud like she did with Shanna.

Nyla's squash booking doesn't even let her do anything interesting in the ring. I always sigh at her Dark and Elevation matches, because, like...I know there won't be anything to see, Nyla's just going to win in a minute. Given what she's capable of with the right opponent, Nyla's skills have been thoroughly wasted through a lack of substance.

Like...cjb, you're sounding like the people defending Asuka's booking at this point. Yeah, Nyla's a former champ who wins and gets title shots, but she's also directionless and not doing anything memorable or interesting, and there's not even enough going on to speculate on how she could fit into it. What's next for her? A feud with Kris Statlander where she loses en route to Statlander getting a title shot? Beating Leyla Hirsch or Big Swole two or three more times? Or just go back to those boring one-minute squash matches? The weaknesses in the rest of the women's booking are bad for her, too.

About the only worthwhile thing that Nyla could do right now is beat Shida, but while the win would be a meaningful accomplishment for her, the match is played out thanks to getting two PPV slots with nothing at all in between for Nyla.

I wasn't disagreeing that Nyla could use more. But ultimately something she needs or could very much use is a midcard like feud. Even if it's vs Shida maybe include some other girls. Include Riho, Hirsch, Ford, Bunny, Swole, Diamante. What they could really use is intermingling which is what has helped the guys out so much. Once things weave into each other it's so easy to get things going in terms of feuds and directions and even the flow of the show. 

I don't think Nyla's booking is anywhere close to Asuka's yet and it kind of pains me I'm even slightly coming off that way because that's not my intention. Just think Nyla needs something to get her fire back. I know some people have said she's lost drive but who knows if she's dealing with injuries or not either. She IS 38. She's basically the oldest girl on the roster they have now with Kong gone. Maybe a break would do her well if in the end they do something like Vickie turning on her. 

No clue if we'll get this or anything but I guess we'll find out. Especially in August when we get Rampage.

[Oak: Certified Jade Hater]

For what it’s worth, watching Dark and Elevation can be a chore, especially at 17 matches that are designed to give lower card talent wins to pad their record. Don’t get me wrong, I can watch The Acclaimed do their thing and sometimes we’ll get a Kingston/JD Drake match that’s just fun to watch, but 99 out of 100 times it’s squash matches where the signed talent wins. And yes, they should, but when every show is squashed it’s hard to watch and get invested sometimes.

What does this have to do with the women? They could have banger matches week in and week out on Dark and Elevation, but if people are burnt out and not watching because of the reasons listed above, then it’s kind of for naught. With crowds back there’s been a bit of a change, but one can agree that four-five women’s matches on the B shows, while nice and gives them some exposure and experience, isn’t being seen by all of the audience, only a portion. Looking at the views on YouTube, Dark has 207K and Elevation has 355K. Which is nice, but Dynamite had 1.148 million viewers according to wrestling inc, which is a huge jump.

The women’s roster has had just one (1) match per episode of Dynamite for several weeks. To see two matches, you’d have to go back to the May 19th episode, but even then, one match went just over two minutes. The two episodes of Dynamite before then had matches that went less than two minutes. This is Thunder Rosa and Britt Baker going less than two minutes on Dynamite, with Rosa herself going 1:30.

We can talk at length about Rampage coming, how they’ll have more time then, how the division will grow, but that’s pure speculation and guesswork until the time comes. Right now, looking at Dynamite, I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that it’s not a top priority, or something that they seem to put much thought into. It’s been the Britt Baker show since she made her title aspirations known, and all credit to her, she’s grown into a terrific talent. But there are other women, some that have been listed just a few posts up, who could also shine and be draws for the company. They just aren’t, for one reason or another, and it’s a shame given how they wanted to present themselves as different two and a half years ago.

EDIT: Also, I’d be perfectly content and happy if Nyla was nowhere near the title scene for a year at the very least. She’s seen as the dependable heel, and I understand why, but two title matches against Shida (who hasn’t been on Dynamite in some time), and now this small program with Baker has me tired and done with it. Personal opinion, but there was Nyla discussion so I figured I’d chime in as well.

[Celgress]

Jul 22, 2021 17:35:18 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jul 22, 2021 17:16:12 GMT -5 markymark said:

Once again idk why it feels like Nyla stopped giving a crap and didnt want to put over Britt, in a way I would understand considering how her booking has been really bad.

You can say it's been bad but she's both won a world title and has one of the highest squash rates of any wrestler on the roster. She has always been put over as a dominant force and even beat Baker this year.

She just simply needs to get away from the title scene and have a lower card feud like she did with Shanna.

Dude, your persistent defense of AEW no matter the criticism (seemingly valid or seemingly invalid) is admirable in a way. You reminded me of some of my favorite anime/manga heroes Goku, Usagi, and Izuku. You never give up no matter how hopeless the cause. Shine on you crazy diamond.